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Old 07-12-2020, 09:49 PM
Huskerguy Huskerguy is offline
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Default Help with 9mm loads in my CZ

I must be missing something as I have never had this much trouble working up a load for a 9mm. I have had this CZ P 10C for a little over a year and am just now getting time (retired) to reload some ammo for it.

The target picture that came with it showed 5 shots, two slightly below and to the left of center, three low left. That is pretty close to what I was getting with anything I tried at first. The only adjustment on the 10 C is windage. I made a couple small adjustments and soon had was able to punch the center regularly with factory ammo.

Two different times I loaded five rounds of Winchester White Box 115 grain for warm up shooting from a rest at 50 feet. All rounds in the black center. I am thinking I have this! Then I tried all of these loads.

115 Gr XTP 5.4 Grains CFE
115 Gr Montana Gold 4.6 Grains Titegroup
115 Gr XTP 4.0 Grains Titegroup
115 Gr Montana Gold 4.0 Grains Titegroup
OAL at 1.100

124 Gr Berry's FBRN 4.0 Grains Titegroup
124 Gr Berry's HBRN 5.3 Grains CFE
124 Gr Berry's HBRN 4.0 Grians Titegroup
124 Gr Berry's FBRN 5.3 Grains CFE
124 Gr Berry's HBRN 5.4 Grains CFE
OAL at 1.150

I have slugged the barrel
I have done my "plunk test"
I take the bell off the case mouth and it measured exactly the same as the Winchester Whit Box at .375-.376
I know I am missing something little that would make a difference but can't seem to pinpoint out what.

I worked up loads for a Ruger SR 9 I had at one time and they were killer accurate with 4.0 grains of TG. I can't seem to get TG to pattern well at all with this CZ. I get closer with the CFE in either 5.3 or 5.4 with either of the Berry's bullets I have - some decent groups but nothing close to what I can get with the White Box.

I shoot everything off a rest at 50' and have to hold the front site right on the black.

So what am I missing? I know 9's can be finicky and I won't give up on this one just need to try something different than just sending lead down the range.

Thanks in advance
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Old 07-12-2020, 10:44 PM
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Nevada Ed Nevada Ed is offline
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Some CZ's have a short throat to swallow bullets and need a sort OAL to work
while other will not have feeding problems.

A "Ball" RN design, and a JHP/JFP design are night and day in many a CZ pistol and have to be fitted to each pistol to feed right........

if the speed of the powder is enough to work the action and not over board.
Some powders work great with starting loads, while other powders do well
with light to medium target loads and then there are the High pressure powders, but they can go higher than 1250fps with the plated bullets.

You just need to study each separate bullet and find out where it makes your pistol happy. There is no short cuts or magic "Fit all" load, I am sorry to say.

Just that some shooters ask for more accuracy than other, pick your poison.

In my C9 3.5" I load the;
115gr Xtreme RN from 1.10" for max fps and drop down to 1.14" for mt 955fps accuracy loads.

124gr Xtreme RN from 1.12" for best fps/full acc ..... down to 1.165" with a few powders at 950fps............
but 90% are set at 1.14" so the 124/115 can be both used without changing the die, for most of my target loads.

JHP bullets are another can of worms.............



Good luck.

Last edited by Nevada Ed; 07-12-2020 at 11:00 PM.
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Old 07-12-2020, 11:23 PM
bigedp51 bigedp51 is offline
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How to determine Max OAL for a CZ Pistol
How to determine Max OAL for a CZ Pistol
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Old 07-13-2020, 07:27 AM
Huskerguy Huskerguy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bigedp51 View Post
How to determine Max OAL for a CZ Pistol
How to determine Max OAL for a CZ Pistol
That's exactly how I do it but those illustrations are very helpful. Thanks
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Old 07-13-2020, 10:42 AM
mikerjf mikerjf is offline
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That link is an *excellent* series of posts, and really answered some questions for me - thank you!
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Old 07-13-2020, 12:05 PM
bigedp51 bigedp51 is offline
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The link for CZ pistols applies to all pistols and the OAL of your ammo.

But I would not use this method if you are loading a batch of ammo for several different pistols.
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Old 07-13-2020, 05:24 PM
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I never got great accuracy with tg, have not shot cfe. Best accuracy will never come with plated bullets imo. MG & XTP have always been very accurate.
Every gun is diff, but you might try WSF or Unique. Most accurate load I ever put together was 124gr xtp over max charge of Unique. 1" groups at 50ft off The bench from several diff 9mm. OAL has not proven a big deal with accuracy in most pistols. Reliability is more important.
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Old 07-13-2020, 06:05 PM
WR Moore WR Moore is offline
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Looking at the Hornaday 9th edition, I see no 9 mm load data for either powder. Perhaps there's a reason.

Have used Unique for decades, any accuracy problems are due to operator error. I do prefer the Berry flat point, plain base (truncated cone) bullet and load to 1.090".

Last edited by WR Moore; 07-13-2020 at 06:07 PM.
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Old 07-13-2020, 08:00 PM
Luke Duke Luke Duke is offline
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Default CZ

Ive found the cheap Remington stuff shoots awsome in my CZ. even though I reload , its not nearly worth the time. If you can find the ammo for the right price.
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Old 07-13-2020, 09:13 PM
Nick B Nick B is offline
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For all of my 9ís including a Shadow 2 l load a 124 jacketed bullet with 4.2 grains of TG .
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Old 07-13-2020, 11:38 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by WR Moore View Post
Looking at the Hornaday 9th edition, I see no 9 mm load data for either powder. Perhaps there's a reason.

Have used Unique for decades, any accuracy problems are due to operator error. I do prefer the Berry flat point, plain base (truncated cone) bullet and load to 1.090".
There are 50 powders that can be used to load 9mm. Reloading manuals give you maybe 15-16. The idea one is unsuitable vs another is silly. They arent testing 50 powders for each bullet & caliber. I expect its like most things, starts with a personal preference.
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Old 07-14-2020, 03:35 AM
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Default 9mm loads

I just worked up some 9mm loads for CFE Pistol, Unique, and Power Pistol. All of these were shot from a Glock 19. Velocity in ft/sec.

CFE Pistol: 124 gr. FMJ
Ave. Velocity / Extreme Spread / Standard Dev.
4.8gr 1004 16.5 6.8
5.0gr 1045 47.7 19
5.2gr 1087 64 27.3
5.4gr 1100 17.6 7.3

Unique: 124 gr. FMJ
5.0gr 1075 65 33.7
5.2gr 1104 64 26.8
5.4gr 1154 14.6 6
5.6gr 1163 61.7 22.4
5.8gr 1201 46 19

Power Pistol: 124gr JHP
5.6gr 1104 82.6 29.8
5.8gr 1153 27.6 12.6
6.0gr 1174 33.2 14
6.2gr 1194 12.3 4.7

These were all 5 shot groups. This may help you narrow down your search. YMMV of course. Cheers
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Old 07-14-2020, 09:34 AM
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After reloading for 45 years with few problems , my Dad gives me a 9mm Luger ... my first ... it's a stinker and doesn't like to co-operate .
It's the only round I actually cursed at ...more than once .
After trying many powders I get best accuracy with good old , dirty smokey - the powder everyone loves to hate ... Unique .
If you can try some loads with Unique ...why it works I have no idea ...but it does in my 9mm and 3 others , load them to the upper end of the loading chart ... at least 1000 fps with 120 - 124 grain TC bullets , do not try and light load them .

Keep experimenting with loads ... Good Luck ,
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Old 07-24-2020, 12:05 PM
tdan tdan is offline
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As has been mentioned, the current crop of CZ pistols have short chambers. General consensus is these pistols prefer 124 gr. bullets. My Shadow 2 certainly does. Try my magic load:

Precision Delta 124 gr. JHP loaded over 4.0 gr. of Titegroup.
Federal brass and Winchester primers. COL is 1.145.......sweet spot for my pistol. This load shoots groups under 1" @ 25 yards all day long. Best 5 shot group was 5/8". These were shot from a rest with 2 moa red dot sight. This gun has been tuned for bullseye shooting. I have a single action only trigger that breaks at 2 lbs. 10 oz's. and installed a Cajun Gun Works 10x barrel bushing. This is the most accurate 9mm pistol that I have ever shot. Hopefully this load will tighten up your groups................tdan
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Old 07-24-2020, 04:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Huskerguy View Post
I am thinking I have this! Then I tried all of these loads.

115 Gr XTP 5.4 Grains CFE
115 Gr Montana Gold 4.6 Grains Titegroup
115 Gr XTP 4.0 Grains Titegroup
115 Gr Montana Gold 4.0 Grains Titegroup
OAL at 1.100

124 Gr Berry's FBRN 4.0 Grains Titegroup
124 Gr Berry's HBRN 5.3 Grains CFE
124 Gr Berry's HBRN 4.0 Grians Titegroup
124 Gr Berry's FBRN 5.3 Grains CFE
124 Gr Berry's HBRN 5.4 Grains CFE
OAL at 1.150

Thanks in advance
The obvious answer would be to use a better method of "work-up". No offense but reloading isn't one of those hobbies that one can achieve instant gratification. It takes a little more effort than going from 4gn to 4.6gn of TG with your 115's. Even worse with the 124's.
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