|
|
07-20-2020, 01:05 AM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: So. Illinois
Posts: 2,611
Likes: 1,399
Liked 3,339 Times in 1,433 Posts
|
|
Surplus powder question
Some years ago I bought this jug of military surplus SR4759. Apparently it came from disassembled ammo. I knew that when I bought it, and I got it at a very good price.
If you were to look closely you could see small flakes of brass in the powder, as well as what look like flecks of a black sealant. There's not much in there, but you can see it if you look.
What I've been doing is pouring the powder onto a slanted piece of cardboard. With a little tapping the powder kernels roll down the cardboard and the brass and sealant specs get left behind.
My "processed" powder works just as well as normal SR4759.
I'm wondering if I need to go through this extra step. If I didn't I could see a very few brass flakes and some specs of the sealant getting left in the bores of my guns.
Do you think this could be a problem?
Personally I don't think the flakes would cause a problem, but I process it anyway just to be sure.
Anyone ever run into a situation like this?
|
07-20-2020, 01:18 AM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Ohio
Posts: 7,856
Likes: 9,471
Liked 14,855 Times in 5,050 Posts
|
|
I think your technique is slick and it gives you peace of mind, and anyone that crafts their own ammo should recognize the value in knowing that you did your level best to make great ammo. I mean, I can certainly say this for myself. Pride in what I make shows up in my results. I have confidence in my ammo that translates to great shooting and I'm sure of that.
So don't discount your process that has worked.
With that out of the way, I also decided about 28 years ago that it was preposterous for me to clean primer pockets and so I will not EVER do that nonsense again, but my handloads are still absolutely fantastic.
Along those lines... I think that removing of those bits of impurity probably isn't much benefit and if I were in your position, I wouldn't do it. The tiny occasional brass bits will be blown out with each shot. If you have any "left in the bore" it would only be from the last round fired and none previous. And the flakes of sealant are getting beyond incinerated I'm sure.
That doesn't mean you should stop, this is simply how it occurs to me.
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
07-20-2020, 02:38 AM
|
SWCA Member
|
|
|
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Peoples Republic of Calif
Posts: 4,670
Likes: 1,236
Liked 6,042 Times in 2,152 Posts
|
|
The only thing that I would worry about is that these "contaminants" will tend to settle and be more heavily present in powder from the tail end of the can than from the top of the can. That might, on a percentage basis, reduce the effectiveness of the powder. From my general read of your post I am guessing that this is unlikely as the contamination level is so low.
|
07-20-2020, 09:22 AM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: So. Illinois
Posts: 2,611
Likes: 1,399
Liked 3,339 Times in 1,433 Posts
|
|
Don't know if you guys are aware but SR4759 has been discontinued, and it is highly sought after by cast bullet shooters, and that's what I am. So this powder is very valuable to me.
I will watch it as it gets low to see if there are more contaminants in the bottom. I'm not near there yet and hopefully that day won't come for a while. I processed some yesterday and there were very few flecks in it.
|
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
|
|
07-20-2020, 09:30 AM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Central Indiana
Posts: 1,868
Likes: 1,762
Liked 1,284 Times in 694 Posts
|
|
I would keep doing what you're doing. I would do the same thing, if it were me. It would bother me that the debris was in there, and if you weigh your powder charge-you'd be weighing the debris also. BTW, I still clean my primer pockets :-)
|
07-20-2020, 09:45 AM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Baton Rouge, La.
Posts: 6,874
Likes: 7,481
Liked 8,135 Times in 3,678 Posts
|
|
The sealant is only lacquer or asphalt based sealant and normally is fired in the gun when shooting military ammo , I've shot several thousand through 1903-A3 with no harm .
The Brass Flakes ....well brass is soft so it shouldn't damage a barrel and it takes a high heat to melt brass . Even if the brass melted in the barrel it would only present a fouling similar to bullet jacket fouling .
I would remove the largest flakes of brass , simply for piece (peace) of mind and load it ... there shouldn't be a problem that a bore brush and solvent couldn't take care of at worst .
Load up and fire 20 - 50 and see how the bore looks .
Gary
__________________
Certified Cajun
NRA Member
Last edited by gwpercle; 07-20-2020 at 09:46 AM.
|
07-20-2020, 11:55 AM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: SW MT
Posts: 6,734
Likes: 10,507
Liked 6,027 Times in 2,967 Posts
|
|
I had some WC 820 surplus that showed some contaminant flakes but chronoed the same as the base it was compared to . [AA9]. I wouldn't go to the bother but do what works for you.
__________________
Front sight and squeeze
|
07-20-2020, 12:15 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Puget Sound Area
Posts: 888
Likes: 39
Liked 2,388 Times in 649 Posts
|
|
I use a lot of SR 4759 in cast bullet loads and I stocked up on it when it was announced that it was to be discontinued.
I had no idea that it was sold as a surplus powder. I've burned a lot of surplus 4895 and 4831 over the years, but never surplus SR 4759.
What military ammo do you suppose that it was loaded in?
__________________
Keep your powder dry.
|
07-20-2020, 12:27 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Ohio
Posts: 7,856
Likes: 9,471
Liked 14,855 Times in 5,050 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by MyDads38
BTW, I still clean my primer pockets :-)
|
As we are both hobbyist handloaders, I would offer up the idea that you take whichever caliber/firearm/handload you hold nearest and dearest to your heart that of all you make or have made, would be the benchmark for accuracy of anything that you produce...
...and for the pure science of it, build a box or two of that ammo doing every single bit of it the same as you always do EXCEPT do not clean those primer pockets, find the rattiest filthy pockets you can find, make that ammo, test it to the best of your ability in great conditions and see what you see.
I love making ammo but primer pocket cleaning is physically taxing and basically a prison sentence to me. If you enjoy doing them then all is well. But you could possibly find that this step can be eliminated.
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
07-20-2020, 04:32 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Badgerland
Posts: 2,373
Likes: 558
Liked 1,497 Times in 787 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scharfschuetzer
I use a lot of SR 4759
What military ammo do you suppose that it was loaded in?
|
According to a post in Paco's lever gun forum:
"In spite of the SR (Sporting Rifle) prefix, 4759 was developed for military application during WWII.
It was a bulky powder for reduced loads with "frangible" bullets for use in air to air gunnery training."
Doesn't say exactly what rounds but air to air was .308, .50, and some 20mm.
I'd guess they were training with 30-06 and .50 BMG.
__________________
NEMO
"Everything 44"
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
07-20-2020, 04:46 PM
|
US Veteran
|
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Ohio
Posts: 4,468
Likes: 801
Liked 3,059 Times in 1,013 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by robertrwalsh
The only thing that I would worry about is that these "contaminants" will tend to settle and be more heavily present in powder from the tail end of the can than from the top of the can. That might, on a percentage basis, reduce the effectiveness of the powder. From my general read of your post I am guessing that this is unlikely as the contamination level is so low.
|
I was advised by a twice Distinguished Pistol shooter that the graphite in the old Bullseye powder will also settle. So based on his recommendation I store my jug powder on their side and flip the jug every 6 months. Not sure it helps but it don't hurt.
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
07-20-2020, 05:30 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Oct 2010
Location: Monroeville, PA
Posts: 316
Likes: 214
Liked 171 Times in 82 Posts
|
|
I would make a batch of 20 rounds of cleaned powder and 20 rounds of contaminated. Do some testing and see what you can find out. That's what I like about reloading, doing some safe experimenting to see what works for me. Otherwise, if you are satisfied with the results from cleaning your powder, don't change a thing and continue doing what works for you.
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
07-20-2020, 05:57 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Puget Sound Area
Posts: 888
Likes: 39
Liked 2,388 Times in 649 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nemo288
According to a post in Paco's lever gun forum:
"In spite of the SR (Sporting Rifle) prefix, 4759 was developed for military application during WWII.
It was a bulky powder for reduced loads with "frangible" bullets for use in air to air gunnery training."
Doesn't say exactly what rounds but air to air was .308, .50, and some 20mm.
I'd guess they were training with 30-06 and .50 BMG.
|
Interesting. I recall reading about the P39 Aerocobra aircraft that were used as target planes for the frangible munitions. Apparently they had lights that flashed on and off when they were hit. I'm not sure I'd want to be a pilot in one of those although it was probably fun to shoot at them.
__________________
Keep your powder dry.
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
07-20-2020, 05:58 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Central VA
Posts: 8,657
Likes: 1,569
Liked 9,427 Times in 4,225 Posts
|
|
Did your surplus 4759 come in a white bottle that looked like it originally held Chlorox bleach? I've got one of those (about 8 lb) that I bought back when I was shooting a lot of 32-40 in a high wall Winchester (ASSRA events.) I bought up a bunch of that powder from whatever sources I could find back in the '90s and early oughts. I've heard it was the replacement for the old #80 powder from earlier in the 20th Century.
Froggie
|
07-20-2020, 06:52 PM
|
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Florida
Posts: 6,619
Likes: 3,397
Liked 9,286 Times in 3,487 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scharfschuetzer
Interesting. I recall reading about the P39 Aerocobra aircraft that were used as target planes for the frangible munitions. Apparently they had lights that flashed on and off when they were hit. I'm not sure I'd want to be a pilot in one of those although it was probably fun to shoot at them.
|
Aircraft skin is very thin, even on the P39. Air-to-air gunnery was conducted by shooting at a towed banner, often with the tow plane piloted by women pilots.
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
07-21-2020, 10:27 AM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: Dec 2013
Location: Central Indiana
Posts: 1,868
Likes: 1,762
Liked 1,284 Times in 694 Posts
|
|
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sevens
As we are both hobbyist handloaders, I would offer up the idea that you take whichever caliber/firearm/handload you hold nearest and dearest to your heart that of all you make or have made, would be the benchmark for accuracy of anything that you produce...
...and for the pure science of it, build a box or two of that ammo doing every single bit of it the same as you always do EXCEPT do not clean those primer pockets, find the rattiest filthy pockets you can find, make that ammo, test it to the best of your ability in great conditions and see what you see.
I love making ammo but primer pocket cleaning is physically taxing and basically a prison sentence to me. If you enjoy doing them then all is well. But you could possibly find that this step can be eliminated.
|
Sevens, Good Morning Neighbor!
I de-prime and wet tumble with stainless steel pins, my primer pockets come out as clean as the brass! If I clean without the pins, the primer pockets will still have some residue, but not much/not bad. When I shot PPC, I made sure my match brass was prepped/trimmed and kept separate. I still sort my brass by headstamp (all calibers, all the time lol). That's just me Even though I don't shoot competition these days, I still want the best ammo I can make and I'm retired now!!
|
The Following User Likes This Post:
|
|
07-23-2020, 08:22 PM
|
Member
|
|
|
Join Date: May 2016
Location: 30min SE Montreal
Posts: 2,026
Likes: 150
Liked 1,540 Times in 841 Posts
|
|
4759 WOW,I'm down to my last 2 pounds and am beginning to have nightmares if they don't reintroduce it.
Possible to let us into the info where you got it?
|
07-23-2020, 09:16 PM
|
|
US Veteran
|
|
|
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Augusta, GA
Posts: 6,127
Likes: 6,652
Liked 6,170 Times in 2,674 Posts
|
|
I don't deburr 357 or 44 mag brass. Trim to my correct dimension, resize and reprime brass (knocks off outside burr), flare case mouth (knocks off inside burr) and load powder, seat bullet, crimp case mouth.
Don't worry about little brass flecks. They go down the barrel with bullet, flame, and gas. Somethings are too small to worry about in life.
__________________
S&WHF 366
|
|
Posting Rules
|
|
|
|
|