A bit of a rant, although not directed toward any of our members. Virtually every conceivable load that is appropriate for any caliber is published in a wide variety of loading manuals. From starting suggested loads to max loads, it's all there. Some well intentioned folks with inquiring minds still like to ask what load will work in their firearm. "Should I use a such and such load for home defense, hunting," etc. The problem is that in any public forum, you're likely to run into bubba, another well intentioned, but otherwise ignorant or misinformed individual. He uses or read somewhere that his powder and bullet combination will give a velocity or power level that safely works in his firearm and will shoot clean through a 1977 Lincoln Continental.
There is a lot to learn in all topics from forums such as this. But, across the internet there is a mine field of dangerous info available. In this example, a person new to the reloading experience can get all the info they need from any of the fine publications from Hornady, Speer, etc. There are many and it is the best money spent, not just for the novice, but the experienced loader as well. Knowledge also lets you distinguish between the bubbas and the buddha's.
"Should I use this load in my gun" Let's see what the manual says". The next time it comes up on line, you'll be the Buddah.

Can you show me a "published book load" for a 38sp/357, 148gr plated double ended wad cutter, using Unique powder? I would love to have both the minimum and maximum suggested load and the suggested FPS and the CUP. I could not find it in my manual.

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"Tastes just like chicken"

this forum just like all others has its as you put it it's Bubba's, the trick is to learn how to wade thru the BS and as good members who watch out for each other need to point out any miss information. there is a forum I won't name that has very good, very smart people on it and if someone post anything with BS it is pointed out load and clear, if Bubba keeps posting BS Bubba is gone.

I learned from the manuals. That’s where everyone should be learning.
I don’t advise on loads, use anyone else’s loads nor give or use anyone else’s loaded rounds.

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“Look life in its iron face”

Books of Old.....
Reading, Researching, more Reading, Comparing, asking, and
then you can come to an Educated Guess.

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SD social distanc'n since 1889

As a relative beginner, I'm frustrated by the fact that many loads in older manuals are declared beyond max in subsequent manuals from the same company. Were they unsafe before? Will the currently suggested load be labeled unsafe in the next version? Will a 24" test barrel load work in my LCP?

It's common discussion that loads that used to be normal are now +P, among manufacturers. What's changed there are the corporations, not the powder.

Plus nearly any manual often doesn't have the bullet you're using. I'm not going to buy 20 manuals, and have them all be out of date when next years version downgrades all the loads. I was thinking maybe I could use GoldDot data for an XTP, then I read about bearing surface and that shoots down another bunch of sources.

So looking online in loading forums is the only choice left. I see who sounds like they know what they're doing, who is cautious and sensible sounding, and I take note of what they're doing. Same thing in other forums, find those that sound sane and see what they are doing. Compare what they are doing to each other and to whatever factory loads you can find online, such as at Alliant's site, and so forth. Read online published articles (as opposed to mere chat rooms), what range are they working in?

You get to note certain names, like Pearce and Newberry. What do they mention trying?

And then, once you have all this public opinion, you gingerly try something out, working up to it, in a good quality gun that can take it. (How many people try a whizbang max load from online in their old or worn-out Brand Z? Not me.)

Hopefully you've read about signs of pressure, how far your gat should be flinging it's brass, etc. Newbies don't usually have chrono's. I guess I could spend $$$ for boutique ammo and try to compare recoil.

So yeah, it's a little frustrating. I've been doing low/mid range ammo for a couple years, that's gone well, and now am trying some hotter loads. Carefully.

If you're referring to Berry's 38sp/357, 148gr plated double ended wad cutter, I'll provide a quote from their site.
"Berry's does not research or publish the load data, but you can use any published load data for a jacketed or lead bullet as long as it is the same weight bullet."
"Berry's bullets are designed to withstand velocities up to 1250 fps unless otherwise specified."
According to Lyman's 3rd Edition for Pistol & Revolvers, the Lyman #358091 wadcutter might fit that requirement. I would list the loads, CUP, etc that you asked for, but since I think you're playing me, I'll leave that up to you.

Nothing wrong with asking what others are loading. There's something VERY wrong with not cross referencing that data from published sources.

New reloaders looking for a quick answer who don't seem to have ANY manuals concern me but I usually see them well warned on this forum.

Personally, the only time I recite a load is
"According the XX Manual (that I have in my possession), it's ..." and I check my typing very carefully.

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Just Say No - To Social Media

Some powders have changed over the years, and some are inconsistent batch to batch.

Most older manuals were never actually officially pressure tested, except for reading primers etc.

Some brass volume has changed.

A new manual does not mean they updated all the calibers, mostly just added new ones till their other data gets very outdated.

Not all manual writers develope loads using same criteria.

While i have a semi collection of manuals, would be good to have at least 3 decent ones and a chronograph if looking for upper end (hotter) loads. And yes, it just be an opinion.

While a manual may list a load, doesn't mean it is a good load or one that suits you. Always good to have some where to ask.

Somebody needs a hug ....

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I only take a knee for God

Searching for a pet load for a particular cartridge and firearm can be very time consuming and expensive. Asking for recommendations for bullet and powders that perform well can greatly help in finding a combination that will work well in that person’s particular firearm.

Have not reloaded for a number of years.
But if I start up again-
I will use a current manual.
PS It will not be a Herters!

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NRA LIFE MEMBER

You also have to remember that a lot of us on this forum are well past 65 years of age.....................

and sometime "Stuff happens"................

Wrong pair of glasses, fingers on the wrong home keys, a flip flop of numbers and just a plain "Oversight" is put down on the information that is not correct.

We don't mean to do it and I confess, I forget to proof read my post some times.............

Sorry guys and girls, it happens.
One reason a manual is the only way to fly...................

All understood. But it's tempting, when manuals differ on max loadings even from their own previous releases, to just treat them as one more opinion rather than an authoritative source.

How many of you would go along with the Berry's quote above, which *sounds* like it's saying you can use any data for any bullet of the same weight, no matter that the data is for lead or jacketed? I KNOW that ain't true. I think the manufacturer made an misinterpretable statement that might blow up some newbie.

So how about a recc? I mostly shoot LSWC in 38sp, and LRN, hardball, and XTP in 9 and 45. Bullseye, Unique, and Power Pistol. What would be a good manual to start with?

And thanks for the hug, Doug.

...the full size version,not just the 'lead only version, has loads for jacketed and lead bullets. Some manufacturer's websites have some lead info, also.

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"He was kinda funny lookin'"

I keep all the current manuals from Hornady, Lee, Lyman and Speer. I also collect older manuals to see how things have changed through the years. I also check online sources. It CAN be confusing to a new reloader (and even to us more experienced reloaders) when the data seems to be all over the map! I check several references before loading anything.

I seldom load anything past a "medium" load. I also don't mind helping someone when I have published data or data from an online source, such as Hodgdon's website. Most of us "more mature" reloaders use some of the same tried and true loads that have become "standards". A little common sense and respect for published data goes a long way :-)

A handloader can't have too many paper manuals. I'm not sure it's necessary to update every manual every year, but your information should be relatively current. Most published data is pressure tested today. Some manufacturer's have free data online, but there is much data that is not online. It seems that many handloaders today have an aversion to paying for printed material, much to their detriment, and they miss out on a lot, but you can't tell them that.

Data in old manuals is still a good reference source, but old data should be checked against current data as a safety measure.

In all honesty I really do have some more modern books than just the Herters. One that I still use the most is an old (and my first) Speer book from the early 80's. The main reason I continue to use this one is because most of the powder I am loading is from the same era---Hercules made Unique and 2400. I kind of figure old powder and primers to go along with the old data.

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"Tastes just like chicken"

My old reloading manuals are the same vintage of most of my powder stash. It's still working as always.

There are times when a reloader may want to shoot rounds that are outside what the manuals consider typical. For instance, what if someone wants to shoot reduced load cast bullets in their 30-06 or 30-30. Rather than experimenting on your own it may be safer to seek out other individuals who have already worked up safe and accurate loads. There is published info out there on cast bullet loads but not a lot of info for low power or subsonic loads. That info may not seem important to city boys but for anyone living in the country it can add a whole new dimension to your shooting opportunities and pest control.

A tiny bit of research and one can find manufacturer's data and nearly all reloaders with any experience/knowledge will start with lead bullet data...

Unless this post is "jes pullin' our leg"...

I've shared it before but I'll repeat it for maybe a newer reloader's info; My Rule #1: I pay very little (no) attention to any load data I see on any forum, pet loads website, or magazine article, hear from any range rat, gun counter clerk, good intended friend, or gun shop guru. For over 40 years I have gotten my load data from published reloading manuals (with a few lately from powder manufacturer's web sites). Normally I use the manuals for starting loads, load some and log them and all further loads with a note about max listed load. With my method I have worked up probably hundreds of load combinations, safely, without the need to ask anyone...

It's the era of instant gratification. Many just don't want to spend the time to do the research. Though your statement about any info you need is published just isn't quite true. Plenty of bullet/powder combos are left out of manuals. Consider there are about 50 diff powders that are suitable in one form or another for most handguns, with 3-4 diff bullet wts, not manual is going to cover all that.
In times where common "book" powder become scarce, being able to switch to something else is valuable & wont be covered in any book.

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NRA Cert. Inst. IDPA CSO

The fact is that almost any questions that can be answered here can also be answered if you take the time to look through the correct publications. So are we saying, "how dare someone join with the intention of asking his fellow forum members for help or confirmation". If your buddy asked you a question would you tell him to go read a book?

I'll bite... And opine philosophically.

When the concept of personal responsibility for one's actions (or failure to act?) becomes as irrelevant as it seems to have become recently, I'll just have to deal with those consequences if and when... And then, naturally, attempt to put the blame on someone else for for my folly or negligence...? Not!

Not now: not ever.

Not unless I 1st actually did something wrong.

I don't accept or acknowledge blame or responsibility for something I didn't do. Guilt can't be inherited. No matter what they try to tell you.

Cheers!

P.S. Don't believe everything you read or that which is written down. Proofreaders make mistakes, too...

I never fault a person when asking for assistance, but just taking everyone’s answers and heading for the range is a bad idea. There are experts out there and there are “experts”. There are also those who want second and third opinions and that is fine, but I am amazed that so many experienced reloaders do not have what I consider the most important tool in reloading - - - the chronograph. It not my opinion that a chronograph is essential to load generation, it is a fact! A chronograph will allow a reloader to make up test loads from min to max and get out to the range. I always start out shooting the middle load and move up or down, watching the velocities until I get the best combination of velocity and accuracy. I take the rest back and unload them.

Also, it is not always about over-pressure, but also under-pressure loads, especially when shooting revolvers. It is not hard to run into loads that will shoot slow enough to raise the possibilities of a stuck bullet.

I recall a scene in the movie My Cousin Vinny, when Judge Chamberlain Haller (Fred Gwynne) asked Mona Lisa Vito, an automotive expert, (Marisa Tomei) if it was her opinion about her testimony, she said: “No, it’s a fact”!!

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Gary
SWCA 2515

Several of us, though not a lot here, play with surplus powders that have never been in "books or manuals". They do go bang and effectively push a bullet downrange. I shoot a lot of WC820, WC860 and WC872. Should I advise someone who just got some of these powders to put it on their flowers?

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Front sight and squeeze

In my opinion the best manual to start with is the Lyman Handbook. With very few exceptions, every load is presented with actual laboratory results for pressures in test guns. Unlike bullet-makers' manuals that concentrate solely on their own products, the Lyman Handbooks present a broad range including multiple cast bullets and commercially produced jacketed bullets.

The step-by-step instructions are very clean and complete. Trouble-shooting techniques are explained in detail.

I have a dozen or more manuals from multiple publishers. I always consult the Lyman Handbooks when working up a new load.

Are you saying that I am old? Well, you are absolutely right.

I am more cautious now than when I began reloading. But, I also have pretty good records of load data from back in the day, so I have proven data for MY use.

Have a blessed day,

Leon

Glad to hear this since my Dillon XL750 includes the Lyman Handbook.

^^^This. Besides, this is social media and folks are using it to socialize. Would the question of "what load do you like in your 686" be something to get upset about when playing cards with a group of friends while out at the range? Yes, I agree that many folks use forums for an easy way out. Easier to ask and get multiple responses than to take the time to look in multiple manuals or even use online published reloading sources.

I generally don't even respond to those inquiries unless I see a potential danger. Other folks seem more than willing to offer their pet loads.

If you are concerned, shoot a Ruger Super Blackhawk. I don't think you can blow one up. God knows I tried.

I'd say 40% of the new loads I shoot are not covered by any direct published information. I'm saying it is fairly common for them to NOT be covered. So I research as much as I can with the most similar information I can find. Works for me.

One thing to watch for on forums: some people have already done some research before they ask, and already have an opinion. I.e., they are not looking for information, they are looking for validation of their opinion. Usually recognizable when someone asks for your idea, then attacks it as wrong. "Then what the hell did you ask for?!?!"

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I've still got it made.

Most of the posts here are stating "look in the manuals", and I agree 100%! However, what if the caliber you are loading for IS NOT IN ANY BOOKS! ? This summers endeavor is working up a load for the ".224 Harvey K-Chucker" ! This is NOT a K-Hornet(rifle caliber) which can be found in some books! This caliber is fired from a K frame S&W. The very first step is to find out every little bit of information about like calibers, 22 Hornet, 22K Hornet, 218 Bee, and etc. Look at what powders used, bullet weights, velocity, pressures, and any history you can find on your new caliber! Next is to shorten the Hornet brass and fire form your new brass. Load a light load with a medium powder being careful of a squib load and yet have enough pressure to form the new shoulder! When you have established this load(testing one load at a time) load 100 brass and fire! Now, pick a bullet you want to shoot and try it with different powders, one round at a time! Inspect your fired brass after each firing looking for pressure signs! I now load 10 rds of three different powders. Fire 5 rds for accuracy then 5 rds over a chronograph. I do this for different powers and different bullets! By the end of summer I hope to have a load for this gun! ? Am I doing things wrong?
jcelect

Funny you should mention this. I was contemplating a sub sonic load for my 30-06. Could not find anything published, so I looked at a bunch of forums. Opinions ranged from "no, you'll get a detonating charge" to "try this or that". So, from folks I don't know to no consensus of opinion, it was an obvious call to me to drop the idea. Way better to be safe than sorry.

There's Harvey .224 Kay-Chuk data available in print, but admittedly, there's not a lot of it and it's hard to find. I've seen data in old HANDLOADERS DIGEST or maybe GUN DIGEST, but finding the data would take some time. Gunwriter Kent Bellah preferred the 37 grain Sisk bullet; he claimed muzzle velocities of up to 2200 fps in a 6" K-frame. Whether such loads were actually chronographed is unknown to me.

Allegedly, pressures of various loads were lab-tested and ranged from 21,000 - 29,000; pretty stout for K-frame use, but perhaps safe. Good luck in your endeavor-

I am pleased that I have a large collection of old reloading manuals (many from Lyman) going back to the 1950s, plus numerous data sheets from the powder and bullet manufacturers, old and new. I can nearly always find the reloading data I need. And if not, there is always the internet. Occasionally I still use my digital copy of the old Phil Sharpe reloading manual.

Talking about "old" recipes...

How's about one from the Herters BULL COOK and AUTHENTIC HISTORICAL RECIPES and PRACTICES for a Javelina...?

Bon a petit...

Using a published load either by the bullet mfg or the powder mfg and you will find a good load for whatever you are wanting, "in most cases". There are the wildcats that require experimenting. These should not be attempted unless you have sufficient experience to know all the warning signs and parameters of what you are working with.

One thing not mentioned so far that I have seen is the concern of the "other parameters" in loading. Mainly the bullet seating depth or Overall Length. The same identical load with same weight bullet, but a different mfg and different ogive can change the seating depth and increase or decrease the pressures. If you are working with max load, and change bullets from a shorter design to a longer design it will seat the bullet deeper and by reducing the area of powder and will increase max pressures sometimes way beyond safe levels. Read and use manuals within the limits and pay attention to "all parameters" of the load.

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H Richard
SWCA1967 SWHF244

True, most loads are listed in manuls, if you can find them or even go to the thing called a Library !!

However there might also be a "Wildcat" cartridge floating around out there that has not quite died out yet, or still has cases, that can be reloaded and maybe even have a powder on the shelf that is not listed any more.

For us Dinosaurs, that some how manage to hold on to these hunks of wood and metal...........
some times it does end up to word of mouth to get the needed information for lost information that lived, years ago.

What ya got there, sonny ..............
is that a .256 Newton rifle ?

Take Aim at Rifle Reloading Data | Hodgdon Reloading


https://loaddata.com/articles/PDF/LD...iland%20LR.pdf

Have used trail boss successfully in 308, and Hodgen lists a 150 gn bullet load in it's on line data base. If you can use it with 150 grainer, would ask them directly about use with heavier bullets.

You likely wont. What reloaders need to understand & learn, reloading manuals are guides, not bibles.
A plated wc is a lead wc with a bit more bearing surface, no grooves. So use startng data for lead & work up. Generally, plated bullets need a bit more powder than lead & jacjeted a bit more than plated.

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NRA Cert. Inst. IDPA CSO

Thanks Zeke