"Should I........"

rays44 · Jul 23, 2020

A bit of a rant, although not directed toward any of our members. Virtually every conceivable load that is appropriate for any caliber is published in a wide variety of loading manuals. From starting suggested loads to max loads, it's all there. Some well intentioned folks with inquiring minds still like to ask what load will work in their firearm. "Should I use a such and such load for home defense, hunting," etc. The problem is that in any public forum, you're likely to run into bubba, another well intentioned, but otherwise ignorant or misinformed individual. He uses or read somewhere that his powder and bullet combination will give a velocity or power level that safely works in his firearm and will shoot clean through a 1977 Lincoln Continental.
There is a lot to learn in all topics from forums such as this. But, across the internet there is a mine field of dangerous info available. In this example, a person new to the reloading experience can get all the info they need from any of the fine publications from Hornady, Speer, etc. There are many and it is the best money spent, not just for the novice, but the experienced loader as well. Knowledge also lets you distinguish between the bubbas and the buddha's.
"Should I use this load in my gun" Let's see what the manual says". The next time it comes up on line, you'll be the Buddah.

ajgunner · Jul 23, 2020

Can you show me a "published book load" for a 38sp/357, 148gr plated double ended wad cutter, using Unique powder? I would love to have both the minimum and maximum suggested load and the suggested FPS and the CUP. I could not find it in my manual.

cracker57 · Jul 23, 2020

this forum just like all others has its as you put it it's Bubba's, the trick is to learn how to wade thru the BS and as good members who watch out for each other need to point out any miss information. there is a forum I won't name that has very good, very smart people on it and if someone post anything with BS it is pointed out load and clear, if Bubba keeps posting BS Bubba is gone.

Jessie · Jul 23, 2020

I learned from the manuals. That’s where everyone should be learning.
I don’t advise on loads, use anyone else’s loads nor give or use anyone else’s loaded rounds.

The Norseman · Jul 23, 2020

Inquiring Mind's want to know

Books of Old.....
Reading, Researching, more Reading, Comparing, asking, and
then you can come to an Educated Guess.

mikerjf · Jul 23, 2020

As a relative beginner, I'm frustrated by the fact that many loads in older manuals are declared beyond max in subsequent manuals from the same company. Were they unsafe before? Will the currently suggested load be labeled unsafe in the next version? Will a 24" test barrel load work in my LCP?

It's common discussion that loads that used to be normal are now +P, among manufacturers. What's changed there are the corporations, not the powder.

Plus nearly any manual often doesn't have the bullet you're using. I'm not going to buy 20 manuals, and have them all be out of date when next years version downgrades all the loads. I was thinking maybe I could use GoldDot data for an XTP, then I read about bearing surface and that shoots down another bunch of sources.

So looking online in loading forums is the only choice left. I see who sounds like they know what they're doing, who is cautious and sensible sounding, and I take note of what they're doing. Same thing in other forums, find those that sound sane and see what they are doing. Compare what they are doing to each other and to whatever factory loads you can find online, such as at Alliant's site, and so forth. Read online published articles (as opposed to mere chat rooms), what range are they working in?

You get to note certain names, like Pearce and Newberry. What do they mention trying?

And then, once you have all this public opinion, you gingerly try something out, working up to it, in a good quality gun that can take it. (How many people try a whizbang max load from online in their old or worn-out Brand Z? Not me.)

Hopefully you've read about signs of pressure, how far your gat should be flinging it's brass, etc. Newbies don't usually have chrono's. I guess I could spend $$$ for boutique ammo and try to compare recoil.

So yeah, it's a little frustrating. I've been doing low/mid range ammo for a couple years, that's gone well, and now am trying some hotter loads. Carefully.

rays44 · Jul 23, 2020

ajgunner said:
Can you show me a "published book load" for a 38sp/357, 148gr plated double ended wad cutter, using Unique powder? I would love to have both the minimum and maximum suggested load and the suggested FPS and the CUP. I could not find it in my manual.

If you're referring to Berry's 38sp/357, 148gr plated double ended wad cutter, I'll provide a quote from their site.
"Berry's does not research or publish the load data, but you can use any published load data for a jacketed or lead bullet as long as it is the same weight bullet."
"Berry's bullets are designed to withstand velocities up to 1250 fps unless otherwise specified."
According to Lyman's 3rd Edition for Pistol & Revolvers, the Lyman #358091 wadcutter might fit that requirement. I would list the loads, CUP, etc that you asked for, but since I think you're playing me, I'll leave that up to you.

AlHunt · Jul 23, 2020

Nothing wrong with asking what others are loading. There's something VERY wrong with not cross referencing that data from published sources.

New reloaders looking for a quick answer who don't seem to have ANY manuals concern me but I usually see them well warned on this forum.

Personally, the only time I recite a load is
"According the XX Manual (that I have in my possession), it's ..." and I check my typing very carefully.

zeke · Jul 23, 2020

mikerjf said:
As a relative beginner, I'm frustrated by the fact that many loads in older manuals are declared beyond max in subsequent manuals from the same company. Were they unsafe before? Will the currently suggested load be labeled unsafe in the next version? Will a 24" test barrel load work in my LCP?

It's common discussion that loads that used to be normal are now +P, among manufacturers. What's changed there are the corporations, not the powder.

Plus nearly any manual often doesn't have the bullet you're using. I'm not going to buy 20 manuals, and have them all be out of date when next years version downgrades all the loads. I was thinking maybe I could use GoldDot data for an XTP, then I read about bearing surface and that shoots down another bunch of sources.

So looking online in loading forums is the only choice left. I see who sounds like they know what they're doing, who is cautious and sensible sounding, and I take note of what they're doing. Same thing in other forums, find those that sound sane and see what they are doing. Compare what they are doing to each other and to whatever factory loads you can find online, such as at Alliant's site, and so forth. Read online published articles (as opposed to mere chat rooms), what range are they working in?

You get to note certain names, like Pearce and Newberry. What do they mention trying?

And then, once you have all this public opinion, you gingerly try something out, working up to it, in a good quality gun that can take it. (How many people try a whizbang max load from online in their old or worn-out Brand Z? Not me.)

Hopefully you've read about signs of pressure, how far your gat should be flinging it's brass, etc. Newbies don't usually have chrono's. I guess I could spend $$$ for boutique ammo and try to compare recoil.

So yeah, it's a little frustrating. I've been doing low/mid range ammo for a couple years, that's gone well, and now am trying some hotter loads. Carefully.

Some powders have changed over the years, and some are inconsistent batch to batch.

Most older manuals were never actually officially pressure tested, except for reading primers etc.

Some brass volume has changed.

A new manual does not mean they updated all the calibers, mostly just added new ones till their other data gets very outdated.

Not all manual writers develope loads using same criteria.

While i have a semi collection of manuals, would be good to have at least 3 decent ones and a chronograph if looking for upper end (hotter) loads. And yes, it just be an opinion.

While a manual may list a load, doesn't mean it is a good load or one that suits you. Always good to have some where to ask.

Dougaz · Jul 23, 2020

Somebody needs a hug ....

BSA1 · Jul 23, 2020

Searching for a pet load for a particular cartridge and firearm can be very time consuming and expensive. Asking for recommendations for bullet and powders that perform well can greatly help in finding a combination that will work well in that person’s particular firearm.

THE PILGRIM · Jul 23, 2020

Have not reloaded for a number of years.
But if I start up again-
I will use a current manual.
PS It will not be a Herters!

Nevada Ed · Jul 23, 2020

You also have to remember that a lot of us on this forum are well past 65 years of age.....................

and sometime "Stuff happens"................

Wrong pair of glasses, fingers on the wrong home keys, a flip flop of numbers and just a plain "Oversight" is put down on the information that is not correct.

We don't mean to do it and I confess, I forget to proof read my post some times.............

Sorry guys and girls, it happens.
One reason a manual is the only way to fly...................

mikerjf · Jul 24, 2020

All understood. But it's tempting, when manuals differ on max loadings even from their own previous releases, to just treat them as one more opinion rather than an authoritative source.

How many of you would go along with the Berry's quote above, which *sounds* like it's saying you can use any data for any bullet of the same weight, no matter that the data is for lead or jacketed? I KNOW that ain't true. I think the manufacturer made an misinterpretable statement that might blow up some newbie.

So how about a recc? I mostly shoot LSWC in 38sp, and LRN, hardball, and XTP in 9 and 45. Bullseye, Unique, and Power Pistol. What would be a good manual to start with?

And thanks for the hug, Doug.

rwsmith · Jul 24, 2020

The Lyman manual.....

mikerjf said:
All understood. But it's tempting, when manuals differ on max loadings even from their own previous releases, to just treat them as one more opinion rather than an authoritative source.

How many of you would go along with the Berry's quote above, which *sounds* like it's saying you can use any data for any bullet of the same weight, no matter that the data is for lead or jacketed? I KNOW that ain't true. I think the manufacturer made an misinterpretable statement that might blow up some newbie.

So how about a recc? I mostly shoot LSWC in 38sp, and LRN, hardball, and XTP in 9 and 45. Bullseye, Unique, and Power Pistol. What would be a good manual to start with?

And thanks for the hug, Doug.

...the full size version,not just the 'lead only version, has loads for jacketed and lead bullets. Some manufacturer's websites have some lead info, also.

MyDads38 · Jul 24, 2020

I keep all the current manuals from Hornady, Lee, Lyman and Speer. I also collect older manuals to see how things have changed through the years. I also check online sources. It CAN be confusing to a new reloader (and even to us more experienced reloaders) when the data seems to be all over the map! I check several references before loading anything.

I seldom load anything past a "medium" load. I also don't mind helping someone when I have published data or data from an online source, such as Hodgdon's website. Most of us "more mature" reloaders use some of the same tried and true loads that have become "standards". A little common sense and respect for published data goes a long way

rockquarry · Jul 24, 2020

A handloader can't have too many paper manuals. I'm not sure it's necessary to update every manual every year, but your information should be relatively current. Most published data is pressure tested today. Some manufacturer's have free data online, but there is much data that is not online. It seems that many handloaders today have an aversion to paying for printed material, much to their detriment, and they miss out on a lot, but you can't tell them that.

Data in old manuals is still a good reference source, but old data should be checked against current data as a safety measure.

ajgunner · Jul 24, 2020

In all honesty I really do have some more modern books than just the Herters. One that I still use the most is an old (and my first) Speer book from the early 80's. The main reason I continue to use this one is because most of the powder I am loading is from the same era---Hercules made Unique and 2400. I kind of figure old powder and primers to go along with the old data.

Maddog 521 · Jul 24, 2020

My old reloading manuals are the same vintage of most of my powder stash. It's still working as always.

1sailor · Jul 24, 2020

There are times when a reloader may want to shoot rounds that are outside what the manuals consider typical. For instance, what if someone wants to shoot reduced load cast bullets in their 30-06 or 30-30. Rather than experimenting on your own it may be safer to seek out other individuals who have already worked up safe and accurate loads. There is published info out there on cast bullet loads but not a lot of info for low power or subsonic loads. That info may not seem important to city boys but for anyone living in the country it can add a whole new dimension to your shooting opportunities and pest control.

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