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Old 07-26-2020, 10:09 PM
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Default Observations on range pickup reloads!

Greetings!

As I mentioned a couple of weeks ago, I collected the brass on the bay I was the safety officer on for a club steel shoot. I was lucky to get brass for: 380, 9mm, 40 S&W, 45 ACP, and a couple 357 Sig. I managed to pickup close to 800 rounds of 9mm. After tumbling the 9s, I segregated them into two groups: reloaded and factory fresh.

Today, I was resizing and depriming these cases in preparation for loading for a "lost brass match" this coming weekend. Today's task involved about 270 cases. I had kept only the brass cases, all else went into the trash can. I made two observations:
1) some cases, no matter how many times they went through the sizing die just wouldn't slip into the case gage, the shell body would slip in, but not the rim.
2) on almost half of the cases, the cases had to be "resized" two or more times in order for the primer to drop clear of the primer pocket. Sometimes, the case had to be rotated in order for the primer to drop clear of the primer pocket.

I see the out of dimension case rims as being a manufacturing defect. But the primer pockets, it's hard to believe that someone reloaded cases where the primer pockets hadn't been swaged!
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Old 07-28-2020, 09:36 AM
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Difficult to comment unless ya get more specific. There are more crimped 9mm cases than the others, but some brands may be more problematic than others, and some dies may be different.

Have loaded crimped 9mm's but swaged the primer pockets on a Dillion tool.
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Old 07-28-2020, 10:29 AM
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Check headstamps. Primers may be hanging up because they are crimped.
If the case rim gets a ding, it wont sit into the case gage. Turn the round over, put it in base first & give it a little twist. Flip it over, it should gage. If not, the case head may be damaged from over pressure load. Your sizing die only goes so far.
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Old 07-28-2020, 12:00 PM
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Rims can get damaged by the extractor or ejector. The resizing die can't fix that.

If I have problems with primers coming out it usually means crimped primers or I need to set the decapping pin down further.
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Old 07-28-2020, 12:13 PM
MyDads38 MyDads38 is offline
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I don't usually have issues with 9mm brass, but I do use the Lee bulge buster die for 40 S&W brass. If all will fit except the Web area close to the rim, a push through sizing die would probably take care of the issue. With 40 S&W brass I de-prime, tumble and then use the bulge buster kit on all of the brass. When I go to reload, I have no issues with the rounds fitting in my Lyman case gauge or during plunk test.

The bulge buster die is actually the Lee FCD from my 40 S&W 4 die set. You take the crimp plug out and use a push plug instead of a shell holder to push the brass through. I've never had an issue using this method on 40 Cal brass.
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Old 07-28-2020, 02:52 PM
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how do you tell if they are reloads or factory fresh?
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Old 07-28-2020, 05:47 PM
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Another problem I've had with the primers not dropping out on the first stroke is them wrapping around the depriming pin and actually getting slightly started back into the pocket in the case on the down stroke. You have to re-stroke the case back into the die to knock it back out. This depends on the primer brand a bit also, as well as the way the depriming pin is worn. Funny thing is that I don't remember having this kind of problem 20 years ago. I'm guessing that the primer manufacturers have changed up something internally, like maybe the way the anvil is made in the primer for this to start happening. Mostly I've had this happen with 9MM cases.
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Old 07-28-2020, 08:31 PM
Moe Mentum Moe Mentum is offline
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Wow, that's weird, I've reloaded thousands of range pick ups over the years, and never had the problems you had. Something seems off here.
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Old 07-28-2020, 09:10 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muddocktor View Post
Another problem I've had with the primers not dropping out on the first stroke is them wrapping around the depriming pin and actually getting slightly started back into the pocket in the case on the down stroke.
Magtec/CBC brass by any chance?

I'm always ready to pick up the shiny stuff at the range, especially for 5.56 and 9mm. Both rounds seem to have some headstamps that leave a primer on the decapping pin. I use a universal decapping die to remove those. But is annoying.
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Old 07-29-2020, 12:03 PM
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I don't shoot in competition so I only process around 150-200 9mm cases at a time. Most of my brass is range pick ups and purchased "once fired". The only problem you're having that I have experienced is primers "reseating". I just cleaned up the depriming stem a bit, lightly polished with crocus cloth, and set the stem a few thousandths deeper. Using Lee 9mm size/decapping dies. I user a Lee size/decap, Lyman M die, and an RCBS taper crimp die. I started reloading 9mm in '90, use mostly range, and once fired brass, often with mixed headstamps. I put my "cartridge gauge" away in '91 and plunk test (Never used a Lee FCD either). The only "problem" I have had was with the plunk test in my new Masada, It needed the OAL with a specific bullet shortened .010"...
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Old 07-29-2020, 12:15 PM
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I don't use the same method as OP, I use a universal de-primer before sizing then wet tumble before sizing. I'm think that if you have to make more then one past to remover the primer the de-capping pin is out of adjustment or bent.
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Old 07-29-2020, 12:44 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cracker57 View Post
how do you tell if they are reloads or factory fresh?

My question as well.
Sounds like the OP mat need to adjust the sizing die and make sure the decapping pin is extended long enough.
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Old 07-29-2020, 01:14 PM
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reloads or factory fresh?
At my range (Bullseye/Precision Pistol) most if not all reloaders will mark their brass with a Sharpie pen...a simple line, or an X , or circle..and usually I find different colors. I used black for a bit, then went to purple.
If they are marked, they are reloads, usually. Some even mark New brass with their favorite "sign". On the other hand, depending on the brand of primer, the primer and brass will be a different color, since most originals I've seen the primer and brass are the same color. That's not a hard and fast rule, but you do notice that. OTOH, unmarked new brass is usually cleaner (shine) as opposed to reloads..again not a hard and fast rule since some reloaders "polish" their brass and reload.
YMMV R
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Old 07-30-2020, 12:19 PM
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Many truly once fired will have crimped primers, if reloaded the crimp has been removed. Even some 9mm "civilian" ammo has crimped primers. I have seen a few Winchester brass with nickel primers and I believe those to be reloaded (Winchester primers aren't nickel plated). Other than that the only thing one can be sure of is the cases are "used"...
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Old 07-31-2020, 07:23 AM
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A lot of 9x19 cases have tight primer pockets or the pocket is swaged. Even non-NATO brass may have swaged pockets.

Standard sizing dies may not squeeze the 9x19 back to a factory dimension, especially when the brass has been fired in a Glock, the older Glocks having the largest chambers and least support for the case head. This results in resized brass retaining a slightly oversized case head. There are dies and tools specifically made for rectifying this problem.
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Old 07-31-2020, 09:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stansdds View Post
A lot of 9x19 cases have tight primer pockets or the pocket is swaged. Even non-NATO brass may have swaged pockets.

Standard sizing dies may not squeeze the 9x19 back to a factory dimension, especially when the brass has been fired in a Glock, the older Glocks having the largest chambers and least support for the case head. This results in resized brass retaining a slightly oversized case head. There are dies and tools specifically made for rectifying this problem.
Just as a note, I shoot factory bbls in my glocks. I have never ussed a pass thru sizer for my servce caliber. Everything sizes fine, nothing has ever failed the case gage.
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Old 07-31-2020, 10:43 AM
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I started reloading 9mm a year or so ago with a big pile of range pick-ups. First time through I had similar issues. If a primer didn't want to seat I backed off and discarded the case. Any other problems and I discarded the case. Now with subsequent reloadings I don't have problems. I'd say there's more variation in 9mm brass than other calibers.
I've got a few boxes of brass from factory rounds I've bought. That's what I use for serious purposes.

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Old 07-31-2020, 11:05 AM
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I was having the problem with primers sticking to the decapping pin using RCBS dies that have the older non-headed decapping pins. Read somewhere that putting a slight radius on the end of the decapping pin could help with that issue. Sure enough, just a slight radius on the end of the decapping pin (which is just a piece of cut small diameter wire/rod) pretty much eliminated the sticking primer issue.
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Old 08-01-2020, 08:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by max503 View Post
I started reloading 9mm a year or so ago with a big pile of range pick-ups. First time through I had similar issues. If a primer didn't want to seat I backed off and discarded the case. Any other problems and I discarded the case. Now with subsequent reloadings I don't have problems. I'd say there's more variation in 9mm brass than other calibers.
I've got a few boxes of brass from factory rounds I've bought. That's what I use for serious purposes.
There is a lot of variation in 9x19mm brass, probably because everybody and his brother make it due to it being the most popular handgun caliber in the world.




Quote:
Originally Posted by mckenney99 View Post
I was having the problem with primers sticking to the decapping pin using RCBS dies that have the older non-headed decapping pins. Read somewhere that putting a slight radius on the end of the decapping pin could help with that issue. Sure enough, just a slight radius on the end of the decapping pin (which is just a piece of cut small diameter wire/rod) pretty much eliminated the sticking primer issue.
That is a good point about decapping pins. They do sometimes benefit from a tiny bit of attention to the working end of the pin.
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Old 08-01-2020, 10:13 PM
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NATO ammo will sometimes have crimps I started sorting my brass about 14 years ago. It was S&B that usually had the crimps and once they were swagged they were great brass. But there were problems with Amerc, Maxxtech, Freedom Munitions, Xtreme, and Ammoland that had the stepped cases for a while. I added TulAmmo, Wolf, B-West, SK, TCW, and TPZ as headstamps that get immediately tossed in the recycle bin - they all are very soft brass. I know some people that have loaded these headstamps but the headaches it can cause it is just not worth it.

I will load Agila, CBC, and Perfecta brass once to be used at an indoor range that has a slanted floor that tends to push most brass in front of the firing line. I have had an Agila case separate at the knurling on about the 5th reload. The CBC and Perfecta primer pocket gets too loose to hold a primer after the third or fourth reloading.

Every time I go to the range I know what brass I have loaded up. If anything other than that headstamp makes it back to my bench I will give it a close examination before I add it to my inventory. As far as the Glocks having a larger chamber I will throw out a BS flag. My 1911 and G17L both have very tight chambers. My 92AF has a much looser chamber than the Colt or Glock but after the Dillon sizing die it doesn't matter.
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