The bubbas at the LGS told me yesterday that one of the principal suppliers they rely upon for small pistol primers called them and offered to buy back any and all small primers they had in stock for retail price.

They certainly have dried up. I am fortunate to have a large supply of Small Rifle and am making do with them.

Looks like not only SPP but all primers (except shotgun) are dried up. I'm good for few years so not really concerned for now.

The reality for us now is that we can not depend on the supply chain to provide ammo and components as we need it. I decided during the last interruption to try and be proactive. Not panic buy, but stock up so that I could enjoy shooting and competing without interruption. I bought several thousand primers of various sizes, bullets, powder, rimfire and whatever ammo I found at a good price. My goal was to have enough to go for six months without running out. I ended up with enough to go for about 10 months without changing the amount of shooting I do. Now the goal is to replenish what I use from my stash. There's no panic about it and because I had a plan, I have enough so that I can walk away from the price gougers and buy on my terms whatever I happen to run accross. Even when this drought ends, if you like to shoot you can not depend on going down to the big box on Friday and buying a couple of boxes to shoot on Saturday. That's just the reality of the market. Things will change, the market will be satisfied and the pendulum will swing back. Ammo and components will be available again until the next time and we will do the dance again. The key is to take advantage of availability and have a plan.

The primer shortage makes me wonder how our military is coping with shortages. There was a time when the government armories made all the ammunition and presumably primers. I heard an anecdote about small arms ammunition loading machines in the old Red River Arsenal that could churn out 1 million rounds per hour, but is the government now dependent on private supply? If so I can't see them standing idly by while private buyers dry up their supply. Makes me wish for a supply chain not driven by fear, but market forces. These ammunition and component shortages are happening frequently enough to provide an opportunity for a new manufacturer.

Part of the reason we run into civilian shortages is because the gov't contracts take priority. The only way they will run short is if there is an interruption in the availability of raw materiel. They also have enough ammo, and pretty much everything else, stored so that they can fight a protracted war on two fronts at the same time. Usually military shortages are more an issue of logistics than availability. Ammo is also no different than just about everything else the military uses. Almost all of it comes from private vendors. It would be cost prohibitive for the gov't to manufacture all the stuff they use. In the event of a big war, they just take control of the private vendors for their own production.

Only a fool goes shopping for components in the middle of a panic drought of supplies. Late January and February 2020, MidSouth Shooters Supply AND MidwayUSA had big time sales on primers and 22 LR. I had plenty of primers and 22 LR. BUT, when you tempt us with copper plated 22 LR for $20 / brick, I and another shooter split a case for ~$220 delivered. When the price fell to $200 for a delivered case, I bought one by myself.

Primer inventory was adequate. All it took was 5K of cast 9 MM and 10K of 38 Spl wadcutters, and small primers are down to 5K on the shelf with a 5 gallon bucket of 38 Spl to reload. I calmed down and decided I'd shoot 4 ACP swc ammo and starter load 44 mag when I have fired 44 mag brass. I know there is 12 gallons of 45 ACP in the shed, so it might be time to start casting --- like late September.

The indoor range has 1,000,000 primers on order (a full pallet or maybe 2), but does not know when they will arrive, Purchase Order was placed 6+ months ago. I was assured that I can get 2 cases (10k of primers) at a reasonable price (maybe cost).

I hope everyone has learned that primer and powder supply is always low the year before the national congressional elections. I'm prognosticating a 22 LR, primer, and powder surplus near October 2021.

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S&WHF 366

This will be worse than 2012-13 imo. I expect shortages thru the winter & into summer. I have sufficient supplies but firends of mine are out or running very short.

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NRA Cert. Inst. IDPA CSO

Amazes me that serious shooters/hunters that have been active in these activities for more than a few years, can find themselves short on reloading components.

I am set for my own needs but have been breaking in a few new guys on loading their own. I basically told them that any time they are in or going past anywhere that sells primers to take a few minutes and check to see if they have any. Following my own advice I stopped to check availability of shotgun shells on the way to the trap range last night. Low and behold there was 8 boxes of Federal large pistol primers right there on the shelf. The Federal boxes are large similar to shot shell primers so I figure those that saw them must have figured they were for shot shells. I told the guy I would take all 8 and he said we have a limit of 2 per person. I asked if he was really going to make me do 4 round trips to the car and back or was he going to sell me all 8. I only made one trip through the register and out the door with all 8. One of my rookies was happy to hear what I had found for him because he had been looking on line and had been to more than 30 different web sites hunting for them. They are still out there---you just have to look a little closer sometimes.

The second part of the story was the shotgun shells. The shelves were bare except for buck and slugs---neither allowed at the trap range. I asked if they might have some in the back and he says nope. I stepped around the corner and there is 8 case sitting on the floor waiting to be put on the shelves. Duh---guess the guy forgot what he had just brought out of the back. Of course they are no longer $4.95 like they were just 3 months ago. Now the cheap trap loads are $6.50. I knew the club had them for $6.75 and they need the extra, so I just waited till I got to the club to buy the shotgun shells.

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"Tastes just like chicken"

I bought4,000 Remington 1 1/2 Small Pistol Primers last week and another 3,000 this week. The first at $31.00 per thousand plus tax and the last ones at $33.00 plus tax per 1000.

I find that if you go to the little gun shops that cater to the crowd that doesn't reload and that just keep some components around you might find more.

The one local guy has a bunch or Small and Large Rifle if you are on Long Island. I only use Benrch Rest Rifle primers or I would have bought some.

Bob

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Sag Harbor & Manhattan, N.Y.

I ran into a guy at my range last week who told me that he's starting to reload primers. Said that he removes the anvils from the spent primers, flattens the brass ends with a punch, and installs the innards from toy gun roll caps (after snipping the paper, I would assume), and then re-installing the anvils.

I'm sitting OK on SPP's for a couple of years-worth of CCI's, Federals and even a couple of bricks of SB's and Winchesters, so I'm hoping that it never comes to using roll cap/recycled primers, but I am sort of impressed by his apparent ingenuity. If there's a run on roll caps at Walmart, then I'll become worried. -S2

ETA: this same guy insisted that his M41 shoots best with Stingers. Therefore, I am somewhat reluctant to endorse his wisdom and knowledge, but I may give the roll cap deal a try during the winter months out of curiosity.

I really don't agree with that. The system is perfectly set up to supply us with consumables as we need them. I'd provide examples, but there's really no need. What the system cannot handle is panic driven runs on the system. No supply chain is set up to handle every American with $$ to running out and buying up everything they see. The recent toilet paper stupidity is a prime example.

Want to know who to blame for this? Look in a mirror cuz it's us. Just like every panic driven run on firearms and ammo I've lived through, it's us citizens causing the problems.

The big problem is, that it all starts with the primer.............

Powder and bullets do you no good if you don't have a primer.

I enjoy shooting my pistols and revolvers but I also did a lot of ATA and just old trap shooting before I got hooked on small arms.

I have fourteen "Flats" of trap loads ready to go.......
Just need the 95 degree weather to cool down a little, so I can enjoy myself out at the club.

Otherwise the rifles might get some long lost love, since I did not get a deer tag this year.

Its all good...............
no worries, for now.

There’s a huge topic on other forum about primers reloading. It’s doable and it seems both corrosive and non corrosive are possible. I’m not that desperate yet, but have coffee can of spent ones


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Sounds like a project for a YouTube expert.

It’s most definitely not, but the thread I’ve mentioned has vast amount of knowledge by people far from YouTube experts


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Stopped at wally in Chehalis wa sat & they had lots of 12 & 20 birdshot.

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NRA Cert. Inst. IDPA CSO

If the system was set up perfectly as you say, there would be little or no shortage of anything as upticks in demand would be anticipated and planned for. Most distribution systems strive for that but must balance it against their profit margin. The ammo production system is running 24/7 right now to try and keep up with demand and to produce as much ammo as they can sell. I would bet that they are about at full capacity. At full capacity, in order to increase production they must increase capacity which requires investment. From that perspective, the ammo companies know that at some point the demand will wane. When that happens, if the investment in increased capacity has not been realized, the company looses. Good companies don't loose. Another point is that if the increased production results in a glut, the price goes down and profit goes down. Believe me, the ammo producers know exactly how much ammo it will take to satisfy the increase in demand. They probably have a very good idea about how long it will last also. They know when they need to increase capacity so that their profits are not adversely affected. If it gets to a point where the market will sustain increased production over a period of time, then the investment will be made and production increased. If not, which I think is the case here, the companies will continue to manufacture with what capacity they have until the demand is met. I also don't think that panic buying is completely to blame, at least in the context that is being discussed here. I think the panic buying is not people trying to stock up as much as it is new shooters buying a gun and ammo for the first time. At least where I am, the number of buyers showing up at gun shops to buy their first gun has gone up about 500%. Of course they buy that new M&P and they buy 2 or 300 9mm rounds to go with it. They shoot a box or two and the rest goes in the sock draw with the gun. Eventually that demand will be satisfied. Most of the shooters I know who regularly use ammo have done like I have and created an inventory over time that they maintain at the rate that they use it. I don't consider that panic buying and the concept works works with every consumable, not just ammo.

Sorry but NOBODY could have predicted COVID or what it would do to demand - much less the George Floyd protests and civil unrest that are still driving panic buying and high demand. And I'm including millions of first time buyers in the term "panic" buying.

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Send lawyers, guns & money...

I’m wondering if Federal, CCI. Winchester and Remington produce primers for a lot of ammo manufacturers. Say there are 15 million new gun owners, each are trying to buy ammo for their new guns. 15 million new owners times two or three boxes each at a minimum equates to 30-45 million boxes of ammunition. That a huge draw on a supply chain balanced for a much lighter demand.

Unfortunately anyone caught short now only has themself to blame. I think I first got caught short in early 1990s. Always kept quite a supply since then. 22s as well.

Folks, I am afraid that I will be the designated "nay-sayer" on this one.

Let's work on the premise that we are 5-6 months into the "pandemic". The leading commodity that was the subject of the (media fueled) panic buying/shortages/hoarding, with some stores imposing limits ... was TP, and within 3-4 months the "shortages" seem to have become history. Then (the media) started reporting the prospect of food shortages, meat packing/processing facilities getting shut down due to COVID19 infected employees and farmers destroying both herds and crops because of logistics and shortages of farm laborers ... you may have seen some short-term shortages, but that seems to have rectified itself in maybe 1-2 months. Both forms of commodities used by the masses, and pretty much resolved on it's own.

Now, look at what may be described as the "perfect storm" to hit the (metallic cartridge) shooting community now that there is amplified civil unrest. For a good 5 months we have seen shelves cleared of not only loaded ammunition, but all three key components. Two weeks ago, while en route to a GSSF match, I stopped in to both a Cabela's and a Gander Outdoors to check the shelves. At Cabela's: some boxes (500 ct) lead bullets marked at over $100, some Berry's plated bullets (250 ct) at $60+, a few bricks of Federal primers at $40+, and one brick of CCI LRP at $62, popular caliber jacketed-type bullets were gone, and factory ammo was extremely lean. At Gander Outdoors, absolutely no reloading components, and I saw (perhaps) 3 boxes of 32 S&W, plus some rifle ammo. Online merchants that I frequent show some less common chamberings in stock, with some of their offerings showing projected availability going into the first quarter of 2021. I had an order of some bulk CCI 9mm cancelled by the retailer because CCI couldn't assure delivery. I have had an order for Federal 9mm that has had the projected shipping date pushed back 3X. Even the smaller name bullet manufacturers have shown zero availability for over 3" months.

In the early Obama years, the ammunition/component shortages were attributed to extreme government agency contracts having delivery priority. Now, we have an entire industry (arms/ammunition/components) coming to a screeching halt all because of a "pandemic", when most other industries keep plugging along with (perhaps) minor hiccups?

I don't believe in coincidents. In my book, something just isn't adding up.

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Judge control not gun control!

Reloader's are not exempt from market and other forces though they think they are.

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Sure you did

Panic runs aren't "upticks". Add in the internet and the ability for people to backorder a ton of product and it gets even worse.

I can't recall the article, but there was one from early 2013 where Midwayusa and Brownells said they had such a large rush of 22 back orders in just a few weeks (before the canned the ability to do so) that it would take over 12 months of production to fulfill them, and that was just two sites. With people back ordering 22 by the 5000+, there's just not enough production to cover that.

If every time a store gets any qty of an item, someone comes in and snatches the entire lot up, there's literally no way to keep up with that.

Yes, it appears that this year's shortages have been fueled by a near perfect storm, or confluence, of events: Wuhan flu, riots and presidential election. Assuming Pres. Trump wins, I'm guessing the shortages may ease up in due course.

On the other hand, if the election should go to the marxocrats, it's Katie bar the door, and the shortages are likely to be prolonged, and possibly continuous. No one knows, for sure, though, and time will tell...

Bayou52

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Bayou52
NRA Life Member

Prior to Obama’s election I had a group of friends who would come to my range every Saturday. Obama gets elected, the ammo panic sets in, and before long I was only shooting with two guys who happened to reload. It was a long time before the shelf buyers showed back up. Same thing now, just another panic on guns and ammo and components.

Exactly. Obama's election in 2008 caused a panic, same thing (but lesser) in 2012. Newtown and the following attack on firearms in early 2013 set it off as bad as I've ever seen it. It even started up this time 2016 before Trump was elected.

I was expecting this...sort of. Like you said, no one saw COVID an the following civil unrest. Combine the COVID panic with civil unrest and now an election with two horribly anti gun Dems running and you get where we are now. If Trump wins in a few months, things will quickly simmer down. If Biden wins? This will go on well into 2021.

I don't buy conspiracy theorists, sorry, but I don't. AIM surplus and SGA had Wolf 223 CASES for $179 in Feb. Now, you can't get that stuff to save your life. That's not the government causing that, no military group uses steel cased 223. I have the cash for a 460 BFR...but can't find one to save my life. I'm guessing the government has something to do with that as well?

I've been on forums for decades and every time it's the same thing. "I bought my first gun and can't find ammo" "I'm offering up my cases of 9mm for $600, I have 7 to sell" "Primers for sale, $100/case" "New reloader looking for materials..." "I was at the local gun show and saw people in line to buy cases of XYZ" "I ran by a local store and they had XYZ ammo in stock, I bought all they had"

It's always the same garbage. It's not the government, it's citizens. Like anything else, this will calm down...when is another story as all the pieces aren't in place yet.

I'm in pretty good shape on all primer sizes with 7000 SP, 10,000 SR, 4000 LR and 4000 LP. After the big drought of 2013 I try not to run low.

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SWHF #595

Hypothetical - "the government" buys more 5.56 than before, leaving less of it for civilians, so civilians scrape the bottom of the barrel and buy up steel cased stuff, and then that runs out. So yeah, it's the government. Not sure why you'd call that a conspiracy though.

Probably the same folks that think reloading .22 is a good idea.

We're doing just fine. Running a set of Combined Arms live fires right now in fact. The COVID epidemic shut down a lot of training events, but we're still shooting. Most of our normal ammo, M855 and the like are coming out of Lake City Arsenal. There was some change over with the M80A1 and M855A1, but I believe they are in full production at lake city. I've shot M855A1 with Lake City headstamps. Our 9mm used to come from federal and Winchester. We're supposed to be getting new rounds with the M17/18, I don't know where they will be made.

In the past we reached into the warehouses, I saw a safety message about Korean War era .50 cal at one point during the GWOT. We also purchased some Winchester headstamped M855 as well (used it for CONUS training). The Rumint said that Winchester brought in some Israeli and Korean Ammo as part of that contract. We've also purchased special rounds like MK 262 from black Hills.

The LE folks are more vulnerable to disruptions in the commercial ammo market. You'll see the FEDs drop a massive contract for ammo every so often.

New guys are the ones putting a big dent in the supply. Us former Boy Scouts and wise old dudes know better than to get caught with our pants down and to "Be Prepared". Ok no pun intended.

As I said above I have plenty for myself but I am also helping 2 new guys out with lessons on loading and what components and equipment to buy.

I know the ins and outs, so help them when I can. While waiting at the gun club for others to show up, I spied a sign on the bulletin board for brass, primers, powder, bullets---so I gave them a quick call. Turns out it is a guy with a small business and side business of selling components. Low and behold he still had a brick of both small and large primers. Being a nice guy he agreed to hold them for me. I called one of my "students" and he went the next day to pick them up. I told him to check for powder while he was there. He was pretty excited when he called me back and had a brick of each small and large, and a pound of powder. The best part was no gouger prices. $32 a brick on primers and $29 on the powder. I told him to ask about future orders coming in and he is now the first on the list for if/when the guy gets more in.

You just never know what you might find or where you might find it.

I also recently lucked into more great stuff from a simple forum post selling bullets. Older fella probably in his 80's and is into small bore wildcat loading. I went to pickup some 38cal bullets at a bargain price of $.05 for 158gr LSWC. Super nice and extremely knowledgeable guy. While he has no problem shooting his wildcats, he had recently sold all but 1 handgun due to arthritis pain. I ended up with 800 small pistol primers, a couple of pounds of new powder, a couple of partials of powder, bunch of brass, bunch more bullets, some pre-primed brass, a box of loaded low pressure 38 SWC (he had been trying to continue handgun shooting), and a new friend. We were both tickled when I left.

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"Tastes just like chicken"

I took inventory earlier this week, and I am in good shape EXCEPT for magnum small pistol primers. Plenty of regular small pistol and large pistol, as well as a brick of Federal Match Large pistol tucked away in the back of the storage cabinet that I had forgotten about. Reasonable supply of both large and small rifle as well, but I mainly reload pistol.

Wouldn't you know that I wanted to load some .327 Fed magnum with H110. Not happening, even with small rifle, due to the fact that I have lightened the springs in the SP101. I did, however, load up some mid-range .327's using Titegroup and WSP's, as well as a bucket full of .32 S&W wad cutters using Trail Boss.

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Only a cold warrior

I'm not sure if this will help you or annoy you, or you can ignore it entirely if pondering it throws a wrench in your operation but I offer it just the same.

Federal is obviously the Father of the .327 Federal Magnum and while other ammo makers that may offer it will go whatever way they choose, Federal has always produced their factory .327 ammo with small rifle primers. With a 45k PSI Max, this was the route they took.

CCI, while under the same corporate umbrella as Federal as a part of ATK (no longer and I haven't followed since) has also given clarity on the issue that the CCI Small Pistol Magnum and the CCI Small Rifle (non magnum) are the same primer. This may have changed recently but in the heyday of the .327 Federal, this was absolutely the case.

My point with regards to your situation is two fold:
1) if you have been using CCI Small Pistol Magnum... and your lightened springs do not struggle... then you have been using CCI-400 small rifle, non-magnum.

2) if you have made max or near max loads using regular small pistol primers, you are not using the primer that Federal used as spec for the 45k PSI load. I can't say for sure that it is "dangerous" but as I try to minimize risks, I wouldn't do it.

If you are fortunate in that you have a supply of small rifle primers... I say you are good to go for making full-nuts .327 Federal fire breathers.

No one has a crystal ball for sure but the large corporations, I'm sure this includes ammo manufacturers at some level, have risk assessment people who do consider things like pandemics, weather, war, civil unrest and probably many risks that I can't imagine. Some corporations do it better than others. Maybe they couldn't predict COVID specifically, but you can bet that they do/did have contingency plans. Just because there is a shortage doesn't mean that the manufacturers got caught flat footed. As my last post, for them it is a question of payoff for increased capacity vs. cost. It's not just about production. There isn't an ammo manufacturer out there who couldn't ramp up enough to produce ammo for everyone for the next 100 years. The question for them is to produce it and maintain their profit margin.

That sustem works but is less than 50% relable. If I had to scrounge in a shtf, I would just get boxes of 25acp, 32acp, anything I dont shoot & break it down for components. We aren't there yet.

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NRA Cert. Inst. IDPA CSO

In 2013 ammo manuf did ramp up to a 24/7 manuf. They were selling everything they could make. Ths is diff. They arent ramping up because of covid restrictiOns. I would think raw matl suppliers are in the same boat. No one saw this coming or knew the govt feckless reponse of just shutting down everything. This will take awhile.

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NRA Cert. Inst. IDPA CSO

I don't hunt anymore nor am I what I call a serious shooter. I'm retired and have access to a nice outdoor range which is free to the public. Everything except guns and ammo is provided free of charge.

It is open three days a week...not long ago it was four days. For the past seven years I have been there just about every day it has been open. I don't shoot a lot of rounds per outing but, what I do shoot adds up.

Seven years ago I started reloading and have not been short of any components since then. I truly feel for those without ammo or reloading components right now. I hope if/when things get better...some have learned a lesson.

Not annoyed in the least.

I didn't know that about the .327 and Federal. My SP101 touches off Federal factory ammo without problem. I do have CCI small rifle in stock, so it won't hurt to work up some loads in small batches using H110 and the SRP's. Thanks.

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Only a cold warrior

Well they certainly make primers for their own ammo prod. Smaller boutique ammo guys are buying primers from someplace. For sure, primers go to ammo manuf before the reloader

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NRA Cert. Inst. IDPA CSO

I want to start reloading but i'm holding off on getting a press because I can't find any components.

Bob, components right now are a genuine problem but I think you are making a mistake by delaying the purchase of a press. There is a learning curve to this game and there are many necessary steps you’ll take in this journey that lead to the very first round you load.

It starts with selecting a press and getting it and mounting it to your load bench. There’s no reason to put that off and there are other things you can do beyond that also such as setting up dies and resizing, depriming and flaring case mouths — each of which takes some time and discovery.

I say get the press yesterday!

absolutely, start getting what you can get and build from there.

When I bought my second Dillon used the previous owner forced me to take large amounts of ~40 year old fed and win primers, large and mostly small pistol.

I had them in some ammo cans for another some years and googled a few times how to get rid of them.

So GLAD I still have them sitting there. I made up 100 rounds with fresh primers and 100 rounds with these 1980s fed SP.

Went to the range, set up at 15 yards and I find that the old primers are getting noticeable better groups, a ragged hole.

Wow....I just found 7-8,000 more primers free of charge sitting in my space already...what a feeling.

Went to one of my local LGS's yesterday. No reloading components, but the did have "Silver Bear" in .223 sitting on a pallet near entrance, Did not even bother to check the price. The only handgun ammo I saw was .25 acp, a few boxes of .32 acp and some 44 mag ammo. Surprisingly, they had several used guns and they have more new stock than I have seen in months. My gut feel is the gun buying craze may be nearing the end (at least until election time) and ammo will start showing up in the stores. BTW, seemed they had plenty a ammo for rental guns.

Powder Valley had some large pistol primers yesterday for a couple hours. I think things are getting made and stocked but the panic buying is selling things faster than they can make it.

Other then testing some new loads I wont be doing any range time until freedom is restored. I had already started to replenish my reloading supplies prior too all the panic.

I've bought almost all components from Powder Valley since before they were known as Powder Valley, thirty or so years ago. Prices overall (not in every single instance) are consistently better than everyone else's. I shoot a lot and stay well-stocked. We are now seeing (I think) the fifth lean time in the last twenty-five years.

Powder Valley is out of a lot of components like everyone else, but if you're looking for something, it's worth checking their website at least daily. Over the years, I've found many popular, hard to find components this way, even during times like these. Granted, such items are quickly gone.

I don't know if there is some order regarding the replenishment situation these companies and their suppliers have worked out, but it appears than many sellers don't really have any idea when or what merchandise will be shipped to them.

Buy your gear now & start tinkering with it. Die setup is 90% of reloading. Get a good manual & read it. Keep an eye out for componets & buy what you can afford.

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NRA Cert. Inst. IDPA CSO

I went into the LGS yesterday and he had WW large pistol primers and SNS coated 200 gr .45 swc's. $91 got me out the door.

Powder Valley had Small Pistol Primers & Federal AR Match Small Rifle Primers for a few minutes Yesterday I was able to get a few of each it takes constant looking to turn some up though.