44 magnum vs 460? Here's what I found.

typetwelve · #1 09-02-2020, 07:34 PM

Ok...so I've been chomping at the bit to do this, so here's what I found.

Fist off, I'm going to give the disclaimer that this is MY load data and mine alone...use this at your own risk!

With that said. I wanted to compare my 7.5" Super Redhawk and my 460 x-frame. Give or take, both are 7.5" barreled. Here's the fellas:

They weigh in nearly identical at 4.4 bs each. Th SRH is actually 4.401 lbs, the 460 4.490 lbs.

On to the loads. Attempting to be as fair as possible, I wanted to use the same projectiles so I ran with Hornady XTP (and XTP MAG), 240g and 300g. All were using Starline brass. Here's the load data:

44 mag- 240g XTP. 24.1g H110, Win LP mag primer, 1.600" OAL
44 mag- 300g XTP. 24.1g H110, Win LP mag primer, 1.750" OAL (This is using Brian Pierce load info)

460 mag- 240g XTP. 48g H110, Fed LR mag primer, 2.160"OAL
460 mag- 300g XTP. 39g H110, Fed LR mag primer, 2.165"OAL

Here's the loads (240g on the L, 300g on the R):

(I've never loaded 44 mag that long before, but they do fit perfectly in my Super Redhawk cylinder.)

So I took these out today, high 70's outside. Chrono from 10'"

44 mag- 240g XTP. 1433 fps, energy 1094 ft/lb, 15.51 ft/lb of recoil
44 mag- 300g XTP. 1277 fps, energy 1086 ft/lb, 18.24 ft/lb recoil

460 mag- 240g XTP. 1941 fps, energy 2007 ft/lb, 35.19 ft/lb recoil
460 mag- 300g XTP. 1704 fps, energy 1934 ft/lb, 35.23 ft/lb recoil

What did I learn? Well...those extra 500 fps between the 44 magnum and the 460 come with a steep price. Where I found the 44 magnum loads to be very stout, but well within the comfort zone, the 460 loads kicked like an angry mule and rang my ears through foamies AND muffs. With that said, I loved every min of it, the 460 is a riot to shoot. Then again, pushing a 240g pill at scraping 2000 fps from revolver (and a hand load) is no joke.

What else did I learn? Those Brian Pierce loads really aren't anything special. Seated to 1.750" over 24.1g of H110 produced 1277 fps, seated to 1.600" and over 19.5g of H110, they are spitting out at 1224 fps. Hornady says I can go up to 20.1g.

Either way, hope you enjoy the data.

DumpStick · #2 09-02-2020, 08:36 PM

Holy smokes ! Those two cartridges side by side is strange. It makes the 44 Mag look like a 38 Spl.

Thanks for the comparison. I think I'll stick with the 44 Mag, thank you very much....

vonn · #3 09-02-2020, 08:46 PM

Impressive! Double the powder , double the kick!

Sevens · #4 09-02-2020, 10:44 PM

Great numbers, thanks for posting this up!

I also use the 48.0gr W296 load under the 240gr XTP Mag bullet in .460 Mag. My XVR is the 8-3/8”.

As I’ve mentioned before — I only have this rig for entertainment purposes. From a bench rest, I shoot at steel 100-400 yards away but by far it’s most use comes as a showoff to friends and guests. We’ll use it to split logs or destroy large fruit.

With that said, the one tale that I love to share is that these 240’s are leaving my muzzle at a true 2,000 fps and when I punched it in to a ballistics calculator, it tells me that this slug is going about 830 fps at a full FIVE HUNDRED YARDS. This is serendipitous in my opinion... what you end up with is a .452” JHP with ten more grains weight that is literally going the same speed as .45 ACP muzzle velocity but at 500 yards down range.

That’s an eye opener!

Nemo288 · #5 09-03-2020, 02:36 AM

Love that 300 grain .44 XTP with the dual cannelures!
It seems made for the .445 supermag, the 460's older, slightly smaller brother.
It gets shot in the mighty 444 as well.
Others in the 444 forum have taken game with that combo but I have not.

Using 30 grains of IMR4227 I get about 1750 fps out of a 12" .445 Encore and 1825 fps out of the 17".
That is one of 2 "standard" loads now in those guns.
The other is a Cast Perf. 260 WFNGC over 31 gr. I-4227 for 1822 and 1913 fps respectively.
I retired the Dan Wesson 7445 revolver awhile ago.
If they offered an X frame .445, I'd have one.
Velocities out of a 444 range from 1900's to over 2000 fps

Disclaimer:
These loads were developed in an Encore and may reach as much as 45 kpsi.
That is my normal limit for break and lever action guns in fine condition.
Dan Wessons may tolerate this occasionally but I would think twice about putting these in a revolver.

Cdog · #6 09-03-2020, 05:31 AM

I've not owned a .460, but had several .454 Casull in various configurations.

A chronograph is one of the best investments I've made for handloading. It delivers a lot of useful information.

I've loaded the .44 Magnum to much higher levels using H110, only to find that after a point you're wasting powder.

I find the .454 Casull caliber mates well with the Super Redhawk, but it's all the revolver I care to shoot more than a couple of cylinders full in. The Freedom Arms are precision built, but can be rough on the shooter.

I love big bore magnums and H110. My hands don't allow me to shoot them like I once did.

Sevens · #7 09-03-2020, 06:19 AM

Well, if you run in to someone at the range with a .460, you should try and cop a shot. You might very well find it to be more pleasant than a .454 Casull.

The brake on the 460 XVR, combined with the weight and the excellent grip design make the big .460 quite manageable.

stansdds · #8 09-03-2020, 07:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DumpStick

Holy smokes ! Those two cartridges side by side is strange. It makes the 44 Mag look like a 38 Spl.

Thanks for the comparison. I think I'll stick with the 44 Mag, thank you very much....

More like comparing the length of 357 Maximum to 38 Special.

Nemo288 · #9 09-03-2020, 05:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stansdds

More like comparing the length of 357 Maximum to 38 Special.

Close.

Very Close.
The 460 is kind of the odd duck of the 1.6" "supermag" family.
They should have been called the "Gates" family IMHO as Elgin did the most to popularize them as IHMSA cartridges.
Welcome to IHMSA - Main
Very colorful guy.
Elgin T. Gates Hunter & Adventurer | AfricaHunting.com
If it wasn't for Starline, some of the older and now more obscure members of this family would be true wildcats or dead.
Super magnum - Wikipedia

S&W wasn't content with the performance of the 1.61" version and lengthened it to 1.8".
Almost a cut down 45-70 (2.1")!
They also goosed the pressure to 65 kpsi which was surely an engineering challenge.
Consequently it isn't a true Gates style cartridge but since there is no real 45 Supermag it does a great job of filling in.
A good example of marketing telling the engineers what to do.

The .500 S&W is more in line with the Gates philosophy.
Only .015" longer than the other supermags but with a pressure limit of 60 kpsi.
Most factory ammo is limited to 50 kspi however which I suspect we achieved during the early madness of loading up the .445.
Some of the Taffin tests and some of my loads in converted 30USA cases with less than normal capacity gave velocities
that were startling then and just plain scary now.

The .44 and .45 have always gone down different paths during the history of Colt vs. S&W.
This is no different today even with the success of S&W and the near demise of Colt.
As a .44 guy I will admit one of the biggest advantages of the .45 is the existence of cartridges like the 45 Alaskan, .458WM/Lott and the 450NE.
As an old guy the 444 is right at my limit for recoil as the rifles are relatively light for the energy released.
The 44 Alaskan is an imaginary cartridge for now.

mikld · #10 09-04-2020, 03:12 PM

Thanks for the thread. But I'm a sissy. When I started reloading my 44 Magnums I had a case of "Magnumitis" but after a few years recovered. I liked to fire off mebbe 40-50 rounds my 265 gr RNFP/WC820 heavy loads and feel the concussion and hear the deafening muzzle blast (even with muffs). But now, 30 years later I prefer milder 240-250 SWC over hefty 2400 loads.

Being a wimp, I doubt if I could fire 40, 460 Magnum, 240 gr JHPs loaded to nearly 2,000 fps in one session (or a month). Maybe a dozen?

Engineer1911 · #11 09-04-2020, 04:32 PM

The crocodile is #10 in the "record book" for Africa. The giraffee was a nuisance animal eating the locals' garden crops. The animal yielded almost 1,200 # of fresh meat to the local village. The Southern Roan also provided fresh meat. When shooting dangerous game the gentleman was backed up by a professional hunter with a rifle. The PH never fired a shot.

Gemsbok & ProHtr.jpg

S&W 460.jpg

Giraffe nuisence.jpg

Southern Roan.jpg

#10 Croc.jpg

Nemo288 · #12 09-04-2020, 09:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mikld

I doubt if I could fire 40, 460 Magnum, 240 gr JHPs loaded to nearly 2,000 fps in one session (or a month). Maybe a dozen?

As mentioned above, recoil all comes down to the weight and ergonomics of the weapon.
I'll fire a 240 @ 2000 even 2500 fps but not out of a revolver

For benchrest testing, possibly the worst position for recoil, I added a pound of lead shot to the rifle buttstock of my Encore.
Made a huge difference.
Even the 7 pounds of a 444 rifle is not enough for benchrest use.
It's fine for offhand hunting though.
That's why the standup test stand is used a lot for powerful rifle testing.
I got a Lead Sled instead.