Smith & Wesson Forum

Go Back   Smith & Wesson Forum > >

Reloading All Reloading Topics Go Here


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 09-06-2020, 09:49 AM
max503's Avatar
max503 max503 is offline
Member
Exceeding velocity specs for bullets? Exceeding velocity specs for bullets? Exceeding velocity specs for bullets? Exceeding velocity specs for bullets? Exceeding velocity specs for bullets?  
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Illinois near STL
Posts: 1,188
Likes: 400
Liked 1,488 Times in 626 Posts
Default Exceeding velocity specs for bullets?

I bought some 158 grain plated hollow points to shoot out of a 10" Contender and a 357 Rossi rifle. On the box it says maximum velocity is 1250 fps. I won't be exceeding that with the Contender but the Rossi rifle could easily top out well over 1250 fps.
I got these for hunting loads. The Contender is for deer. I might, someday, use the Rossi for hogs. Is that 1250 fps recommendation telling me the bullet might not perform as expected as a hunting round?
Or is it telling me the bullet might leave deposits in the barrel - leading or copper fouling - if I push it past 1250 fps. Could that be the case?

These were for sale at my club. I got them for a good price. I noticed after I bought them that they are copper plated, and not copper jacketed. Sounds like they should be OK in the Contender but I might have to keep them throttled back in the Rossi.
Attached Thumbnails
Exceeding velocity specs for bullets?-copper1-jpg  

Last edited by max503; 09-06-2020 at 09:58 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 09-06-2020, 09:55 AM
rockquarry rockquarry is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 2,938
Likes: 4
Liked 2,876 Times in 1,460 Posts
Default

I'd heed the warning on the box. Get some jacketed soft point bullets of the same weight if you want to use them for hunting. Or use a cast lead semi-wadcutter bullet of the same weight if it's relatively soft (for hunting) and shoots well in your gun or guns. Plated bullets for any use are probably not the best choice.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 09-06-2020, 10:01 AM
4barrel's Avatar
4barrel 4barrel is offline
Member
Exceeding velocity specs for bullets? Exceeding velocity specs for bullets? Exceeding velocity specs for bullets? Exceeding velocity specs for bullets? Exceeding velocity specs for bullets?  
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: OVER the hill in TEJAS
Posts: 2,131
Likes: 11,116
Liked 3,372 Times in 1,373 Posts
Default

I would think it has a thinner jacket to expand at a lower speed 900-1200 fps that would come apart in flight if it went faster.

Last edited by 4barrel; 09-06-2020 at 10:05 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 09-06-2020, 10:02 AM
max503's Avatar
max503 max503 is offline
Member
Exceeding velocity specs for bullets? Exceeding velocity specs for bullets? Exceeding velocity specs for bullets? Exceeding velocity specs for bullets? Exceeding velocity specs for bullets?  
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Illinois near STL
Posts: 1,188
Likes: 400
Liked 1,488 Times in 626 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rockquarry View Post
I'd heed the warning on the box. Get some jacketed soft point bullets of the same weight if you want to use them for hunting. Or use a cast lead semi-wadcutter bullet of the same weight if it's relatively soft (for hunting) and shoots well in your gun or guns. Plated bullets for any use are probably not the best choice.
I need to be more careful what I'm buying. I saw the word "copper" and thought they'd be OK. I'll just keep them for use in the handgun. I'm OK with that.

Last edited by max503; 09-06-2020 at 10:09 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 09-06-2020, 10:19 AM
colt_saa's Avatar
colt_saa colt_saa is offline
SWCA Member
Exceeding velocity specs for bullets? Exceeding velocity specs for bullets? Exceeding velocity specs for bullets? Exceeding velocity specs for bullets? Exceeding velocity specs for bullets?  
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Cocoa Beach, Florida
Posts: 8,694
Likes: 1,574
Liked 15,283 Times in 4,302 Posts
Default

Plated bullets, like Berrys, are usually a soft swaged lead bullet with a thin plating over it

Leading is not the issue with plated bullets. That is what the plating is thee to prevent

The worry is speration of the plating from the projectile. When the plating starts flaking off, accuracy goes out the window

The Hornady 158 XTP factory load leaves my Rossi 92 at 1722 FPS

My hand loaded 125 Winchester JHPs leave the Rossi at 2196 FPS
The same load leaves my 10" T/C at 1776 FPS

These velocities ae too high for plated projectiles

You need to buy yourself some Jacketed bullets.

There are few things worse than blowing a hunt because you saved $6 or $8 or $10 on your box of projectiles


BTW, plated projectiles are MUCH too soft to use on Hogs.
__________________
"Acta non verba"
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #6  
Old 09-06-2020, 10:32 AM
Gamecock's Avatar
Gamecock Gamecock is offline
Member
Exceeding velocity specs for bullets? Exceeding velocity specs for bullets? Exceeding velocity specs for bullets? Exceeding velocity specs for bullets? Exceeding velocity specs for bullets?  
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: SC
Posts: 2,876
Likes: 442
Liked 2,919 Times in 1,290 Posts
Default

Here's another possibility: the higher spin that comes with higher velocity might vaporize the bullet.

Crazy idea - contact Berry's.

Contact - Berry's Manufacturing

Email: Sales@BerrysMfg.com
__________________
Don't carry no ugly gun!
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 09-06-2020, 12:37 PM
max503's Avatar
max503 max503 is offline
Member
Exceeding velocity specs for bullets? Exceeding velocity specs for bullets? Exceeding velocity specs for bullets? Exceeding velocity specs for bullets? Exceeding velocity specs for bullets?  
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Illinois near STL
Posts: 1,188
Likes: 400
Liked 1,488 Times in 626 Posts
Default

OK. All is not lost. Lesson learned, and these should work fine for deer out of my 10" Contender. According to my manual velocity will be under 1250 even with a max load. I'll use something else for hogs. I hardly ever buy jacketed/plated bullets. All my shooting is with cast.

I was wondering why they didn't have a cannelure. You can crimp into the side of the bullet.

Last edited by max503; 09-06-2020 at 12:39 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #8  
Old 09-06-2020, 12:57 PM
Rule3's Avatar
Rule3 Rule3 is offline
Member
Exceeding velocity specs for bullets? Exceeding velocity specs for bullets? Exceeding velocity specs for bullets? Exceeding velocity specs for bullets? Exceeding velocity specs for bullets?  
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Florida, NRA CERT RSO
Posts: 21,342
Likes: 9,928
Liked 14,197 Times in 6,334 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by max503 View Post
OK. All is not lost. Lesson learned, and these should work fine for deer out of my 10" Contender. According to my manual velocity will be under 1250 even with a max load. I'll use something else for hogs. I hardly ever buy jacketed/plated bullets. All my shooting is with cast.

I was wondering why they didn't have a cannelure. You can crimp into the side of the bullet.



Why would you want to hunt with a Hollow Nose "mushy" target bullet?


If you have hard cast use those.


There are far better bullets for hunting (even deer) The Berrys probably will go "splat"


Whats wrong with hard cast if you do not have better "hunting bullets like XTPs or whatever?


Berry's Bullets - Plated Bullets, Reloading & Shooting Supplies



FAQ - Berry's Manufacturing


Is separation a problem with Plated Bullets?
Separation is very rare. Two things can cause a jacket to separate from the lead core: excessive speeds (magnum velocities) and a real tight roll crimp (cuts through the plating). If you'll keep these two items in check you shouldn't have a problem with bullet separation.
__________________
For office use only
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 09-06-2020, 01:37 PM
Maurice H Maurice H is offline
Member
Exceeding velocity specs for bullets? Exceeding velocity specs for bullets? Exceeding velocity specs for bullets? Exceeding velocity specs for bullets? Exceeding velocity specs for bullets?  
Join Date: Jun 2019
Posts: 27
Likes: 1
Liked 38 Times in 15 Posts
Default

For chits and grins I loaded some plated bullets that exceeded 1250 (to 1400+?, can't recall exact vel) and had multiple holes on paper with each round and poor accuracy but made for a nice spit demo.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #10  
Old 09-06-2020, 02:49 PM
mikld's Avatar
mikld mikld is offline
Member
Exceeding velocity specs for bullets? Exceeding velocity specs for bullets? Exceeding velocity specs for bullets? Exceeding velocity specs for bullets? Exceeding velocity specs for bullets?  
Join Date: May 2012
Location: S. Orygun
Posts: 1,868
Likes: 1,253
Liked 1,151 Times in 667 Posts
Default

From what I've read, and I'm not a plated bullet fan, is that driven over the recommended 1,250 fps level the plated bullets start coming apart in the barrel, leaving copper and lead fouling and very poor accuracy. In my 357 Mag handgun I have driven a 160 gr. plain base cast SWC to about 1,300 (+) with fair to good accuracy and I would not be afraid to try one on deer sized animals. In my Rossi 44 Magnum I have driven my cast 240 gr RNFP gas checked bullets to over 1,600 fps with very good accuracy and no fouling. But, the bullets fit my guns. I couldn't do that with plated bullets...

Last edited by mikld; 09-06-2020 at 02:50 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 09-06-2020, 03:32 PM
mtgianni mtgianni is offline
Member
Exceeding velocity specs for bullets? Exceeding velocity specs for bullets? Exceeding velocity specs for bullets? Exceeding velocity specs for bullets? Exceeding velocity specs for bullets?  
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: SW MT
Posts: 4,466
Likes: 4,478
Liked 3,069 Times in 1,599 Posts
Default

I loaded my 158 jhp's in a contender to well over 1250 fps. I would heed the box warning that these are TARGET bullets.
__________________
Front sight and squeeze
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 09-06-2020, 03:45 PM
boatbum101 boatbum101 is offline
Member
Exceeding velocity specs for bullets? Exceeding velocity specs for bullets? Exceeding velocity specs for bullets? Exceeding velocity specs for bullets? Exceeding velocity specs for bullets?  
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Pensacola,FL
Posts: 1,514
Likes: 3,025
Liked 803 Times in 412 Posts
Default

Dang partner what did them critter do to you ? Match the bullet to the game & your gun . Load accordingly . Bullets that are iffy in a handgun when shot from a longer barrel are not gonna work well . To kill cleanly you need penetration , while expansion is nice it needs at least a little control . I'd be afraid bullet would fail to penetrate & / or expand , leaving a wounded animal . Not somewhere a hunter wants to go . Dang sure don't shoot no hog with one , unless you want to stay up in that tree for a while .
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 09-06-2020, 04:36 PM
Turn4811 Turn4811 is offline
Member
Exceeding velocity specs for bullets? Exceeding velocity specs for bullets? Exceeding velocity specs for bullets? Exceeding velocity specs for bullets? Exceeding velocity specs for bullets?  
Join Date: Sep 2019
Location: NE ATL
Posts: 212
Likes: 50
Liked 167 Times in 93 Posts
Default

With plated bullets I have also had a higher rate of copper fouling in the barrels even when keeping them below 1000fps. I swore off of plated a few years back. It is now poly coated lead or jacketed for me.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #14  
Old 09-06-2020, 05:07 PM
SLT223 SLT223 is offline
Member
Exceeding velocity specs for bullets?  
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 2,963
Likes: 2,182
Liked 4,265 Times in 1,217 Posts
Default

I was curious myself so I tested this with Xtreme plated 200 .430 bullets in 629-4 8Ē. I can personally attest that they came apart in the bore and key holed on target at ten yards. The bore was littered with little copper and lead shavings. It was like the lands and grooves acted like a cheese grater. I donít know exactly what the velocity was, but they were pushed with 11gr of Unique. I figured that would send them to at least 1250fps. I loaded 5 of these and it only took 3 shots to see what was happening. Thereís no need to push them this hard as they are paper target bullets, and I enjoy them in such a role. They are not designed to work outside this role as the manufacturers inform us, and they donít.

Last edited by SLT223; 09-06-2020 at 08:22 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #15  
Old 09-06-2020, 05:53 PM
Ivan the Butcher Ivan the Butcher is online now
Member
Exceeding velocity specs for bullets? Exceeding velocity specs for bullets? Exceeding velocity specs for bullets? Exceeding velocity specs for bullets? Exceeding velocity specs for bullets?  
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Harlem, Ohio
Posts: 8,957
Likes: 11,389
Liked 13,344 Times in 4,947 Posts
Default

Why not use correct rifle data and load them to the correct velocity? The same bullet at the same velocity will have the same energy, regardless of the gun!

Ivan

It also pays to read the box before you buy!
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 09-06-2020, 06:04 PM
AlHunt AlHunt is offline
Member
Exceeding velocity specs for bullets? Exceeding velocity specs for bullets? Exceeding velocity specs for bullets? Exceeding velocity specs for bullets? Exceeding velocity specs for bullets?  
Join Date: Jun 2014
Posts: 1,323
Likes: 2,906
Liked 1,452 Times in 658 Posts
Default

Your question regarding the plated bullets has been answered pretty well, I think.

I'd just add that you might consider powder coated bullets. I can push full house powder coated, gas checked bullets from an AR without leading.
__________________
Freedom Is Not A "Loophole"
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 09-06-2020, 06:45 PM
Nemo288's Avatar
Nemo288 Nemo288 is offline
Member
Exceeding velocity specs for bullets? Exceeding velocity specs for bullets? Exceeding velocity specs for bullets? Exceeding velocity specs for bullets? Exceeding velocity specs for bullets?  
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Badgerland
Posts: 2,155
Likes: 421
Liked 1,254 Times in 649 Posts
Default

I have seen the exact phenomenon as SLT223 with Xtreme, Rainier, and Berry's plated bullets.
They work very well in the 44 special (I use a taper crimp).
But in the magnum or supermagnum they fall apart leaving a shotgun spread of little holes from the shredded "jacket" and core.
On the other hand a WFNGC can be driven to Mach 2 with accuracy and little to no leading if you are careful with the dimensions.
The manufacturers know what they are talking about.
__________________
NEMO
"Everything 44"
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #18  
Old 09-06-2020, 10:23 PM
max503's Avatar
max503 max503 is offline
Member
Exceeding velocity specs for bullets? Exceeding velocity specs for bullets? Exceeding velocity specs for bullets? Exceeding velocity specs for bullets? Exceeding velocity specs for bullets?  
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: Illinois near STL
Posts: 1,188
Likes: 400
Liked 1,488 Times in 626 Posts
Default

Just got back from shooting a pressure series. Worked up to 8.1 Unique. My 65 y.o. eyes, uncorrected, put 4 shots into right around 1" at 50 feet from sandbags, from my 10" Contender with iron sights. I've been using cast on deer. So far, I have not lost or wounded any deer. But some left little to no blood trail. I want something that is going to give some expansion.
The semi-wadcutters I've been using made about the same size entrance and exit holes.
Also, JHP's have very soft cores. I don't see how these would perform any worse than a JHP. I feel confident using these on deer. I wouldn't use them on hogs.

For some reason I get fliers out of this barrel using cast. I want a bullet to go where I aim it. With the current shortage, these are the best bullets I can get my hands on. Deer season is coming up. If a better option comes along I'll try it. But I believe these will work. I'd be amazed if these bullets failed on deer at the short range type of hunting I do.

Last edited by max503; 09-06-2020 at 10:48 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 09-07-2020, 12:14 AM
mscampbell2734 mscampbell2734 is offline
Member
Exceeding velocity specs for bullets? Exceeding velocity specs for bullets? Exceeding velocity specs for bullets? Exceeding velocity specs for bullets? Exceeding velocity specs for bullets?  
Join Date: Jan 2012
Posts: 383
Likes: 3
Liked 275 Times in 140 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by max503 View Post
. I don't see how these would perform any worse than a JHP. I feel confident using these on deer. .
Sir please do NOT shoot these at any sort of game animal.

I'm not sure if your paying attention but AGAIN these are soft lead cores with a THIN coating of copper, not a jacket.

There is a real risk these bullets will flatten/mushroom uncontrollable and leave a nasty shallow wound on any game animal.

JHP bullets do have a soft lead core but the best have precision jackets of a specific hardness and thickness to control the expansion.

I realize times are tough right now and it's hard to find bullets but plated bullets are for killing paper only, not serious real world use.
Reply With Quote
The Following 4 Users Like Post:
  #20  
Old 09-07-2020, 10:20 AM
stansdds stansdds is offline
Member
Exceeding velocity specs for bullets? Exceeding velocity specs for bullets? Exceeding velocity specs for bullets? Exceeding velocity specs for bullets? Exceeding velocity specs for bullets?  
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Virginia
Posts: 3,727
Likes: 4,035
Liked 4,265 Times in 2,105 Posts
Default

Berry's makes plated bullets, not traditional jacketed bullets. The copper plating is soft and thin, the underlying lead is soft, swaged lead. High velocity with these bullets usually results in the plating being stripped, then the soft lead is exposed and often stripped in the barrel. These bullets are not suitable for hunting and I would not use them for self-defense ammo. My best results using plated bullets has been with 147 grain 9x19mm and 200-230 grain 45 ACP. With these loads, the velocity is less than 1000 fps and they work well for practice ammo.
__________________
VCDL, GOA, NRA
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 09-07-2020, 11:01 AM
boatbum101 boatbum101 is offline
Member
Exceeding velocity specs for bullets? Exceeding velocity specs for bullets? Exceeding velocity specs for bullets? Exceeding velocity specs for bullets? Exceeding velocity specs for bullets?  
Join Date: Oct 2005
Location: Pensacola,FL
Posts: 1,514
Likes: 3,025
Liked 803 Times in 412 Posts
Default

Many other bullets that'll hold up . In a 357 mag shot from a rifle or Contender I use a 180gr JHP the Horn XTP , REM 180 JHP , will hold up to impact velocities of 1800fps . For hogs I use a 180 WFNGC . I won't even use plated bullets for target as their accuracy leaves much to be desired . I was raised that a hunter had a moral & ethical obligation to take an animal as cleanly as possible . Please rethink your intended use of an unsuitable bullet for hunting .

Last edited by boatbum101; 09-07-2020 at 11:02 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #22  
Old 09-07-2020, 12:27 PM
fredj338's Avatar
fredj338 fredj338 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Kalif. usa
Posts: 6,601
Likes: 2,477
Liked 3,711 Times in 2,253 Posts
Default

First, plated HP are not meant to expand, very irregular, so I wouldnt use them for hunting anything bigger than coyotes. 2nd, exceeding vel levels degrades accuracy with plated. I can run 124gr plated in my 357sig with good accuracy to about 1300fps. Beyond that accuracy suffers. They are pure lead cores with thin plating. The bullets start deforming & sliding beyond a given pressure/vel level.
__________________
NRA Cert. Inst. IDPA CSO

Last edited by fredj338; 09-07-2020 at 12:29 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #23  
Old 09-07-2020, 02:39 PM
mikld's Avatar
mikld mikld is offline
Member
Exceeding velocity specs for bullets? Exceeding velocity specs for bullets? Exceeding velocity specs for bullets? Exceeding velocity specs for bullets? Exceeding velocity specs for bullets?  
Join Date: May 2012
Location: S. Orygun
Posts: 1,868
Likes: 1,253
Liked 1,151 Times in 667 Posts
Default

Personally I think plated bullets were intended to just get around lubed cast bullets cheaper than jacketed for "plinking/range" ammo. Many reloaders choose plated bullets and they seem to work OK for their use, but for me, if I'm looking for a less expensive bullet for general use or hunting, I'll go with cast bullets and traditional lube (my cast bullets don't lead my barrels) and for any need of a higher velocity round, SD or some hunting uses, I'll just go with jacketed.The plated bullets I have experience with fall short for all my needs/uses...
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #24  
Old 09-07-2020, 04:40 PM
stansdds stansdds is offline
Member
Exceeding velocity specs for bullets? Exceeding velocity specs for bullets? Exceeding velocity specs for bullets? Exceeding velocity specs for bullets? Exceeding velocity specs for bullets?  
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Virginia
Posts: 3,727
Likes: 4,035
Liked 4,265 Times in 2,105 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by mikld View Post
Personally I think plated bullets were intended to just get around lubed cast bullets cheaper than jacketed for "plinking/range" ammo. Many reloaders choose plated bullets and they seem to work OK for their use, but for me, if I'm looking for a less expensive bullet for general use or hunting, I'll go with cast bullets and traditional lube (my cast bullets don't lead my barrels) and for any need of a higher velocity round, SD or some hunting uses, I'll just go with jacketed.The plated bullets I have experience with fall short for all my needs/uses...
That and indoor ranges. Plated bullets have absolutely no exposed lead, so they are considered safer for indoor ranges.

These days, with hi-tek coated hard cast lead bullets being available, I think the plated bullets are going by the wayside. Rainier was a big plated bullet company, they are now gone.
__________________
VCDL, GOA, NRA
Reply With Quote
  #25  
Old 09-08-2020, 05:09 PM
Nevada Ed's Avatar
Nevada Ed Nevada Ed is offline
Member
Exceeding velocity specs for bullets? Exceeding velocity specs for bullets? Exceeding velocity specs for bullets? Exceeding velocity specs for bullets? Exceeding velocity specs for bullets?  
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Reno Nv
Posts: 8,926
Likes: 1,056
Liked 6,392 Times in 3,082 Posts
Default

I believe the bullet company's post the max. fps of a bullet for safety and performance duties.....

However I have shot a 115gr Plated bullet rated for 1200-1250fps out of a 5" 9mm with a velocity at over.......
1355fps as an average............

and I did not have small sections of plating in or around the impact area but this was a target bullet and not designed for hunting, being a FMJ "Ball" type design.

I do try to keep this at 1250 max and it does much better at 1120fps for my target loads.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Interesting finding on velocity difference between 158 grain Zero bullets. muddocktor Reloading 27 08-12-2017 12:42 PM
915 Specs Amp Smith & Wesson Semi-Auto Pistols 2 05-25-2014 09:27 PM
Exceeding .40 S&W factory loads in Glock pistols? David Sinko Reloading 4 07-22-2012 03:29 AM
specs Juvicator Smith & Wesson M&P 15-22 0 06-18-2011 09:36 PM
If I load low velocity 44 magnums to 8-900 fps do I need gas checked bullets Superflywimpy Reloading 10 03-23-2009 03:11 PM

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
smith-wessonforum.com tested by Norton Internet Security smith-wessonforum.com tested by McAfee Internet Security

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:31 PM.


Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO v2.0.42 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2020 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Smith-WessonForum.com is not affiliated with Smith & Wesson Holding Corporation (NASDAQ Global Select: SWHC)