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Old 09-09-2020, 12:23 PM
akoda akoda is online now
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Default 45 ACP with Power Pistol

I am trying to understand my data. loading 45 ACP using PP. I am loading 200gr Hornady XTP.

I did three test sets 6.8gr, 7.3gr, and 7.7loaded to 1.23 COL. I used data from hornady manual shows min load for PP at 6.6gr (800 fps) to max 8.2gr(1000fps) at 1.23 COL.

based on that I was expecting a max at 950ish fps. my chrono data shows 1260, 1250 and 1240 fps. Running very hot,scary hot. I am sure of weights and chrono data makes sense cause I tested another load of 38spl at the same time and have reproducible data on it.

so why so high fps? the pistol had a little more recoil than usual but based on different comercial round. I used a taper crimp and crimped until good easy plunk test. Could a too tight of crimp caused this, I plan to go to a longer COL and try my low load again, just curious if I am looking in the right direction. pistol is a 1911 5" barrel.

thanks for your comments

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Old 09-09-2020, 12:49 PM
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I "suspect" the chronograph if your load data is indeed correct??
Don't believe that velocity.


How close is the chrono to the muzzle of the gun?
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Old 09-09-2020, 01:06 PM
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I "suspect" the chronograph if your load data is indeed correct??
Don't believe that velocity.


How close is the chrono to the muzzle of the gun?
the chrono was about 12 feet. I have a 38spl load and that is showing 730fps which inline with how it has tested before. I also ran some 230gr rangeline ammo and it averaged 1267fps, seemed much higher than I would have suspected.

I weighed each load individually, so there is zero chance that the weight of load is wrong.

the chrono is a caldwell ballistic precision, less than 6 mos old btw


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Last edited by akoda; 09-09-2020 at 01:11 PM.
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Old 09-09-2020, 01:17 PM
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I shoot PP in the 40 and don't think crimp is your problem. The online data center says your loads are ok but the Chrono shows differently. I would disassemble two and weigh them to verify scale settings. I would also call Alliant.
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Old 09-09-2020, 01:26 PM
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I looked up PPU and their data shows it should be 836, yet my chrono shows otherwise

got to he chrono, how does one "validate" a chronograph?

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Old 09-09-2020, 01:30 PM
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I "check" my chrony with 22 lr ammo. I have always gotten consistent velocities, and the 22 velocities are available/published for the ammo I use. Maybe not 100% accurate but closer than 400 fps...
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Old 09-09-2020, 01:31 PM
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reading up on chrono, it says to reset and try again, move further away and use use cardboard over the screens to shield from direct sunlight.

sounds reasonable...

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Old 09-09-2020, 03:48 PM
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There is a wide range in the LongShot powder charge (Hornady) I just can not grasp the min charge doing 1200fps??
Something is not Kosher
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Old 09-09-2020, 04:10 PM
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I did notice that those loads have a lot more powder than my Lyman manual for that bullet that max's out with PP at 950 fps.

Also the OAL is longer than the Lyman data for a 200gr JHP.

A retry is in order and double check the setup and battery.
Good luck.

Last edited by Nevada Ed; 09-09-2020 at 07:18 PM.
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Old 09-09-2020, 04:23 PM
Protocall_Design Protocall_Design is offline
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Could be a misprint in the loading data. That sounds like a lot of PP in a 45 ACP. Maybe that's a 45 Colt load?
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Old 09-09-2020, 04:31 PM
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Just wondering out loud... did you weigh your bullets? They make XTP's in 185 also, if you used a 185 with 200 data it would certainly go faster.

Not that anyone ever weighs their jacketed bullets, I'm just thinking that it's a possibility.

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Old 09-09-2020, 04:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Protocall_Design View Post
Could be a misprint in the loading data. That sounds like a lot of PP in a 45 ACP. Maybe that's a 45 Colt load?
My book is the same as his with xtp. Everybody and his dog has some Bullseye powder. Put 5 grains in and see how that reads. 6 gr of 231 should be about 900.

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Old 09-09-2020, 05:50 PM
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thanks all

I hadn't weighed my bullets, brand new box from hornady, one weighed in at 199.

Loading a little with bullseye is a good idea too. I'll also check my chrono setup with a 22lr next time and load a few test in the low end again

all this makes this an interesting hobby 45 ACP with Power Pistol



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Old 09-09-2020, 05:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akoda View Post
I am trying to understand my data. loading 45 ACP using PP. I am loading 200gr Hornady XTP.

I did three test sets 6.8gr, 7.3gr, and 7.7loaded to 1.23 COL. I used data from hornady manual shows min load for PP at 6.6gr (800 fps) to max 8.2gr(1000fps) at 1.23 COL.

I plan to go to a longer COL and try my low load again, just curious if I am looking in the right direction. pistol is a 1911 5" barrel.

thanks for your comments

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My Hornady manual lists an OAL of 1.210 in. for that bullet. It could be that your bullet is right up against the rifling at the leade, this can cause increased pressures/velocities. You real sure your charge weights are correct?

FWIW, with a 230 gr FMJRN at 1.270 in OAL, I got 850 f/s with 6.7 gr of PP. However, the OAL is influenced by the ogive of the bullet.

Frankly, except with the heavy bullets, I don't really think PP is real good powder for the .45. My results with 200 gr plated were less than optimal.

Last edited by WR Moore; 09-09-2020 at 05:59 PM.
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Old 09-10-2020, 01:53 AM
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Nothing wrong with using Power Pistol in the 45ACP or with those loads.

My records show with that bullet my COAL was 1.240".

I load that bullet with a lot more P-P than that in my 45 Super loads.

I suggest backing up the chrono a bit more as it's possibly being affected by the muzzle blast.

Power Pistol is very flashy & that may be messing with the chrono.

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Old 09-10-2020, 05:28 AM
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For some reason your chrono is reading bogus....I know for a fact that it takes 10 grains of PP to get 1230 out of a 200 grain bullet in .45 Super. If the chrono reads in spec with low power power puff loads but too high with heavy loads I suspect that the front screen is retriggering on muzzle blast creating a shorter "timed" travel to the stop screen. But I don't know that...when I designed and built my chrono I had similar problems untill I added a latching trigger on my screens. It cost you nothing to move farther back from start screen and try it again..This is just a guess..
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Old 09-10-2020, 08:02 AM
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The "stated" load data and COL is correct.per the manual and compare it to here and here.

Loading The .45 ACP (Pet Loads) | Handloader Magazine


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Old 09-10-2020, 09:37 AM
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I wouldn't say " you can't use PP in 45 acp " ! What I will say , is that if you take a look at what Alliant says , " it's best performance is in 9mm , 40 s&w and 10mm . They are not saying not to use it in 45 acp ? Just better uses elsewhere . Those 3 calibers operate at almost twice the pressure that the 45 acp does . You probably won't get a complete burn .
I am one that believes in matching up the proper powder for the operating pressure of that particular round . In the case of 45 acp , I don't / won't use anything slower than unique . My std load uses WST or Bullseye powders . Many use W231 / HP-38 with much success too . Those powders operate well at the lower pressures of rounds like 45 acp , 38 special , 44 special ,45 Colt etc . I don't think the chrono is correct on the velocity it is showing for your load . I would recheck that again on another day . Also how was the accuracy ? I'm one that believes accuracy " trumps " (no pun intended ) velocity . Good Luck , Regards Paul
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Old 09-10-2020, 09:48 AM
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Quote:
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I wouldn't say " you can't use PP in 45 acp " ! What I will say , is that if you take a look at what Alliant says , " it's best performance is in 9mm , 40 s&w and 10mm . They are not saying not to use it in 45 acp ? Just better uses elsewhere . Those 3 calibers operate at almost twice the pressure that the 45 acp does . You probably won't get a complete burn .
I am one that believes in matching up the proper powder for the operating pressure of that particular round . In the case of 45 acp , I don't / won't use anything slower than unique . My std load uses WST or Bullseye powders . Many use W231 / HP-38 with much success too . Those powders operate well at the lower pressures of rounds like 45 acp , 38 special , 44 special ,45 Colt etc . I don't think the chrono is correct on the velocity it is showing for your load . I would recheck that again on another day . Also how was the accuracy ? I'm one that believes accuracy " trumps " (no pun intended ) velocity . Good Luck , Regards Paul
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It also has good use in the 38 and 44 specials which are far from high pressure rounds. I don't think this is the OP's problem.
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Old 09-10-2020, 10:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by akoda View Post
thanks all

I hadn't weighed my bullets, brand new box from hornady, one weighed in at 199.

Loading a little with bullseye is a good idea too. I'll also check my chrono setup with a 22lr next time and load a few test in the low end again

all this makes this an interesting hobby 45 ACP with Power Pistol


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Off course once you weigh each one, then you have to measure the diameter of each one, put them in separate piles if they vary by more than .0001 inch.
Then you must slug the bore of every gun in that caliber to see if you need custom bullets for each.
Then comes the nodes or "ladder test", using a fixed ransom rest, to determine the exact bullet and powder charge to go blast at paper on the range!.
Don't forget to shine your brass, sort by headstamp,clean the primer pockets uniform each one and of course trim that brass!






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Old 09-10-2020, 10:53 AM
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I have had wonderful performance with Power Pistol in 45acp with light bullets. I don’t even push them very fast.
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Old 09-13-2020, 02:32 PM
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I reloaded a dozen at 7.3gr of PP. Went to the range and set my chrono in a shady area and about 14feet from muzzle. much better data, I suspect the first time the chrono may have been too close for the 45

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Old 09-14-2020, 02:12 AM
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You're welcome.

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Old 09-14-2020, 10:14 AM
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I appreciate the help

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