Took five loads out in the dirt to be put across the chrony and on paper to finish up my work with the Federal 130gr HST "Micro" load for the 38 special snub nose revolvers.

Well lets just say that the results that I expected, were not what I got on the paper and expected over the chrony. It was enough to make a grown man cry..............

My w231 load was just added to by .2 grs but it climbed to 914fps...
the Unique double check load was at 880 but looked like Swiss cheese.....
I will not even discuss the Unique load with more powder and set at a long 1.43" OAL.........
I tried Alliant Steel powder, which the company said was not the best for small arms and with no data I did manage a good "Guesstament" to get the load in the ball park at 863 fps but it did have a HUGE extreme spread and a shotgun pattern, so don't bother wasting bullets with this powder with pistols.

The load that surprised me was Blue Dot.
I have shot a lot of this powder in 38 & 357 mag. and thought that I had it pretty well nailed as to what powder amount to use in my loads.
However, with a deep seated 38 bullet sitting on top of this slow powder, high fps can be expected with the 130gr HST bullet.
I generally don't give out loading data but this bullet with a OAL of 1.18" with a very light crimp with 7.0c grains of powder went across the chrony at 940 fps with a ES of 6 and had a group size at 2" on the other side of the chrony off a sand bag, with my shaky hands. I will try 6.5 grs on the next trip out with five more loads, to try to find that "Fac. Dup." load that works.

This bullet is giving me fits..............going onto load #20.

Very interesting results Ed. We appreciate you going through this and look forward to the next chapter. Thanks

I have 8 revolvers in 38/357 with 2" or less barrels. I35 grain or more is all I can get to stabilize at non +P velocities or faster. Cast or jacketed 125 and 110's seem to need 4 inches or more. If I drop to 38 S&W velocities just about anything will shoot great.

I think it is about bearing surface and the amount of time in the rifling.

Ivan

My F-I-L is a dedicated Bullseye powder user, I'm a dedicated WW231 user, we both have the same results at 2".

I was hoping for a full volume case of powder, to match the Federal loading but it looks like I am going to have to settle for a load that has from .......
76~83% case volume that might give me my 820 +/- fps load, if it happens, with the faster burning powders, since the slow powders that I have, are not getting the job done for a Fac. Dup. loading with accuracy.

I don't have any A-7, so it might just turn out to be w231 for a powder in that burn range, for the best loading. We will see.

Ivan; +1
My snub J frame does very well in groups with the 135 GD and even better with the 140gr XTP at 836 fps.

The 110 & 125 JHP groups open up a little more.....
one reason I would like this lighter recoiling 130 HST, to work out !!

Per request......
I will be adding a starting load with CFE pistol and BE-86 powder, to the mix........ and drop the Red Dot and Bullseye test, for now.

I don't know if these will reach the factory amount of 5.3 grs of powder, since they might have too much energy.

We will see.

Been a fan of Blue Dot for My model 60 for years. Most accurate with good velocity from a snub.

Ed,
My best load with BE-86 seated to 1.18” was with 4.8 grains that gave me an average of 844fps for three groups of five rounds each in a 2 inch barrel.

Blue Dot is listed as #51 on Hoggdon’s burn rate chart but I don’t have any so I might try AA-7 that is #52 on the chart and see if I get similar results as you did with Blue Dot.

I’m half way through my nearly irreplaceable supply of bullets and getting frustrated at the accuracy results so far. Honestly, I can get better groups with 00 buckshot than some of what I’ve tried with these bullets. I don’t think it’s unreasonable to be able to put five shots on a silhouette target at 25 yards. I think the next step is to load to 1.43” and crimp on the cannelure.

I hope it does not need the longer OAL of 1.43" since.........

I used 5.1 grs of Unique at 1.143" and only got 785 fps.
5.3grs of Unique at 1.43" oal in my 686 6" put out 767 fps.
4.2 grs at 1.18" oal at 1.22" ( 1st try) only reached 778 fps.

I am hoping for 805-833 fps for a light, accurate, recoiling load. I have lots of 851fps plus loads.............. at 1.18" OAL.
Just that some of my accurate loads only have a 52% case volume, while others have a 82-93% case volume, that I am still testing, which I feel better with.

I also found out that a med. light crimp can add 50-114 fps to your loads !!
.2 grs of added w231 with a 1.18" oal went from 805 to 914 with a light crimp over the end of the bullet.

My next test will not crimp but just take out the case belling, since case friction should hold this long seated bullet in place.

Have fun and stay safe........
and yes, I am on my second box of 130 HST, also.

Greetings. I've been searching all over the net for a recipe for the 130 gr HST in 38 and 357. I'm wondering if anyone has an update on their testing.

The very limited powders I have are Unique, HP-38, Blue dot, Green Dot, Red Dot. As far as accuracy I'm looking for minute of bad guy out to 25 yards since it's going to be launched from a 2" barrel. Anyone have success in the above powders other than Unique?

Thanks!

I read that you noticed the amount of crimp you put on the case made a difference. Were the sub-800fps results in the 1.143" and 1.18" with crimps? If so how much of a crimp?

Thanks!

I have a test coming up for a 2" J frame..........
trying to get close to the 823 fps factory spec's with the powders
that you have .

My 686 6" "L" frame did well in accuracy with the 38 case set at 1.18" OAL with 4.5 grs of Red Dot at 1080 fps that hit at POA.
Do not use this load in a "J" frame since it way over the amount of powder, for a safe J frame +P load.

I was hoping for a 100% case volume with this deep seated bullet with Blue Dot but it was way past the Federal FPS +P Federal factory speed and will try a 93% volume load on my next test.
I am still working up a load with 2400 powder, which is really slow but might be the only powder to get close to a 100% case volume and still reach a safe factory Dup. load, out of a 2" barrel.

I have 52% to 81% volume loads but would like a 93% or more volume load if possible, for minimal powder shift.

PS;
About those crimps.
the first test did not have a crimp, since I had no idea for the fist try, what the pressures or fps would be, without any data.

I did use crimps in my third test with the factory OAL but when I went to pull three loads, I found that it took a lot of blows with the "Hammer" and with the deep seating, a minimum crimp is only needed....... if you have to.
The 38 case likes a 1.22" OAL better, for no case bulges and I just
remove the belling for a flat case, that will hold this bullet at these low speeds, even in a light J frame with the recoil presented........ which will be used in my next test.


Hang in there.

I was looking through my collection of reloading manuals. In the Modern Reloading (2nd Edition) by Richard Lee it lists on page 563 a load for a jacketed 38 cal., 130 gr. bullet. Starting load is the same as the 148 gr. wad cutter on page 565. 3.5 gr starting for both.

Just in case anyone is interested.

I'm away from my bench & books...

"3.5 gr" of WHAT?

This "New" Federal bullet came out a little over two years ago.......
and put out for loaders not too long ago.

Is it the correct 130gr "HST" bullet , in that data ?

There is a lot of difference in lead vs JHP, mostly with the HST JHP being longer than any 148 lead wc design and seating deeper into the 38 case, that builds up pressure in a hurry.

I have never had a Bulged 38 case with lead 148 WC bullets ....
but have had several case bulges seating the 130 HST bullet to 1.18" OAL with brass and nickel cases.

Short answer, Nope.

Sorry didn't mean to imply the data was specifically for 130gr HST. My post was to show that I finally found something that gives me an idea of where I might start with HP-38.

I've noticed that others have suggested starting with a load between 125 gr. and 140 gr. jacketed bullets as a possible starting point for reloading. I thought I'd share that I found a load that was 130 gr jhp. that others might check out for a possible starting point.

I also thought it curious that the 148 gr. wad cutter recipe and the 130 gr jhp recipe stared at the same powder charge.

My fixation on HP-38 for a possible use is because that's the one powder for pistol calib. that I have a lot of. As you know the Covid panic buying of anything firearms has even affected reloading supplies.

Sorry, HP-38. It's what I have a lot of.

When loading the 130 HST bullet one must remember that.....

1. it is a copper jacket bullet fac seated to +/- OAL 1.18"
2. the Fac 125-140 JHP are seated to a +/- OAL of 1.47"

3. The HST JHP is longer than the 148 Lead HBwc bullet, which will increase pressures.

4. Any crimp used, will also increase pressures

so one must use the utmost care when developing this load.

One reason I used my "L" frame in the starting test, for this 38 special load.

Stay safe.