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Old 11-04-2020, 09:00 PM
delta-419 delta-419 is offline
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Unhappy Reloading Cast Bullets Problem

I reload for all of my guns and use cast bullets for the old timer S&Ws and Winchesters. Of late I am having a lot if issues with bottle neck rounds for my 30-30 and 32ws. Seems like after full length resizing the case fits into the chamber perfectly, but after the bullet is pressed into the neck it will not chamber in the Winchester lever guns. I have checked the AOL and its within specs. What's happening and how do I fix it. Thanks for your help.
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Old 11-04-2020, 09:14 PM
Mike, SC Hunter Mike, SC Hunter is offline
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Too much neck diameter after seating bullets or you're getting neck setback when seating the bullet.(causing the neck to grow in diameter). Are your bullets sized .308-.309? LEE makes a factory crimp die with carbide sizer that may cure your problem.
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Old 11-04-2020, 09:18 PM
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Bullet diameter may be too large for the throat. I had this issue with a 45-70

Try chambering a loaded round and ejecting it to see if there’s marks on the bullet from the throat
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Old 11-04-2020, 09:52 PM
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You would be well advised to make a chamber cast using CERRO-SAFE. Do a search and you'll find a ton of info.

Basically, the neck diameter of you loaded round likely exceeds the throat diameter in your rifle. The neck diameter of the loaded round is as follows: case neck thickness multiplied by two added to the diameter of the cast bullet.
If this value exceeds the chamber diameter, your solution is a thinner case neck. Just making up numbers, if your loaded round has a neck diameter of, say, .322" and your chamber is only .320", it will not chamber. Using a case with a neck wall thickness .001" less will allow it to chamber snugly. For safety and reliability, you probably want it a shade thinner.

There are two ways to accomplish this goal:
1) Use cases with thinner case wall thickness.
2) Turn your cases with an outside case turner. These can be had from Sinclair and, possibly, Brownell's (same parent company).

Others might suggest sizing the bullets smaller. But, if you have cast and sized them to match your rifle, modifying the cases (or using thinner cases) is the better solution.
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Old 11-04-2020, 10:29 PM
Tim357 Tim357 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike, SC Hunter View Post
Too much neck diameter after seating bullets or you're getting neck setback when seating the bullet.(causing the neck to grow in diameter). Are your bullets sized .308-.309? LEE makes a factory crimp die with carbide sizer that may cure your problem.
The Lee FCD for bottleneck rounds is a completely different setup than the pistol FCD. The bottleneck FCD is a collet type crimper, the pistol FCD has an adjustable crimp sleeve, plus a carbide sizer.
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Old 11-04-2020, 11:05 PM
Mike, SC Hunter Mike, SC Hunter is offline
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Also you could try seating your bullets a little deeper. I shoot Lee cast 150 grs. w/GS in my old 94. But never had a problem.

Remove the decapping stem from your sizing die. Lube a reloaded round and run it through the sizer. Then see if it chambers easily.
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Old 11-04-2020, 11:14 PM
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Your chamber should handle a .310" bullet just fine. I suspect your problem is that you need to trim your brass to the correct length. 30-30 brass is very stretchy.

I don't know your bullet profile, but you might check to make sure you're not hitting the rifling.
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Old 11-05-2020, 05:31 AM
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Default I had a problem solved here a ways back......

I couldn't chamber 30-06

I trouble shot (troubleshooted?) everything I knew how to. Gauged, calipered everything.....

I got a LOT of great suggestions and ways to check them on the forum here. And I diligently checked everything.

One suggestion that was especially useful was to use a marker to black the cartridge and try to chamber it to determine where the problem was. It did show a problem with the shoulder angle.

Someone suggested I examine my dies. There was ring of lead inside one that apparently changed the shoulder angle because everything else checked out perfectly.
No idea how it got there, but my problem, that I had been working on and off for a couple of years, went away.

That was a real Reloading Forum victory.
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Old 11-05-2020, 05:40 AM
Ivan the Butcher Ivan the Butcher is offline
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One other thing you could check for, is a very slight bulge in the shoulder. this would come from the case mouth being too long and being pushed back while crimping OR the whole neck being pushed back while seating. This is a common problem with the older cartridges, I've had it with 30-30, 44-40, and some people have this problem in 25-20 & 32-20.

The cures:
1) Lee FDC (least likely!)
2) Trim cases to length (most likely)
3) clean the inside of your #2 die (easy and free, so why not!)
4) all of the above

Ivan
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Old 11-05-2020, 10:55 AM
SMSgt SMSgt is offline
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If you've been loading cast bullets all along for those two rifles, examine what has possibly changed when the issue began--different bullet weight/style, COL, different brass, etc.

I'd clean the dies, get some new cases, do all the initial case prep, check diameter of the bullets, and load a few and try chambering again.
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Old 11-05-2020, 11:30 AM
mtgianni mtgianni is offline
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Going to the RCBS X die in 30-30 has eliminated case stretching in my guns. They do work as advertised.
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Old 11-05-2020, 01:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike, SC Hunter View Post
Too much neck diameter after seating bullets or you're getting neck setback when seating the bullet.(causing the neck to grow in diameter). Are your bullets sized .308-.309? LEE makes a factory crimp die with carbide sizer that may cure your problem.
First part correct. Cast bullets are normally larger in diameter and will swell the case neck often too much to fit the chamber/throat. Any time there is a fit issue, measure. Measure the completed handload to find out where it is too big and that will show what to correct. Or measure the case after each step to find out when the problem happens...

The Lee post crimping sizing die is used mainly for hand gun cartridges and not for 30-30, or other bottle necked cartridges. Lee makes an excellent collet crimp die for bottle necked cases.
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Old 11-05-2020, 01:44 PM
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I would bet a beer it’s as Ivan said. Several reasons that result in shoulder set back that causes a roll at shoulder. Put magic marker on shoulder area.
Attempt to chamber and when you feel resistance, extract and check shoulder to see if marker is wiped off.
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Old 11-14-2020, 04:55 PM
TIMETRIPPER TIMETRIPPER is offline
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Crimping bottle neck cartridges is a pita. If case lengths varies too much it is easy to bulge the case when the bullet is crimped on a longer case. Bottle neck cases also tend to require trimming more often than straight walled ones, the shoulder angle being conducive to brass flow resulting in an over long neck. It's also another good reason to segregate you brass by manufacturer.

John
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Old 11-14-2020, 05:44 PM
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Did this ever get sorted out?
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Old 11-16-2020, 01:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by delta-419 View Post
I reload for all of my guns and use cast bullets for the old timer S&Ws and Winchesters. Of late I am having a lot if issues with bottle neck rounds for my 30-30 and 32ws. Seems like after full length resizing the case fits into the chamber perfectly, but after the bullet is pressed into the neck it will not chamber in the Winchester lever guns. I have checked the AOL and its within specs. What's happening and how do I fix it. Thanks for your help.
Are you using a Lyman M style expander? If so,you need a modest crimp to remove the flare. If not, are you scraping the bullet & leaving a small ring of lead at the case mouth?
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