Smith & Wesson Forum

Go Back   Smith & Wesson Forum > >

Reloading All Reloading Topics Go Here


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 11-29-2020, 12:38 PM
Krogen Krogen is offline
Member
Published Load Data for Speer #3997 in 9mm Published Load Data for Speer #3997 in 9mm Published Load Data for Speer #3997 in 9mm Published Load Data for Speer #3997 in 9mm Published Load Data for Speer #3997 in 9mm  
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Puget Sound
Posts: 1,239
Likes: 2,468
Liked 1,718 Times in 643 Posts
Default Published Load Data for Speer #3997 in 9mm

Does anybody have published (i.e. loading manual) data for Speer's #3997 bullet in 9mm Parabellum? I came across a stash I had forgotten about. I'd like to make use of them.

I loaded a few quite some time ago. My records show a load of Herco and a specific LOA. Rather than simply do that again, I'd like to experiment a bit. The problem is, the bullet was discontinued. Speer's website doesn't show load data. My old Speer manuals (9, 10 and 11) don't show the bullet. Presumably the current one (15) won't show it either. Maybe it's in No. 12, 13 or 14 - I dunno. If any of you have those manuals and would be kind enough to share some data, I'd sure appreciate it.

It's an odd shaped bullet, so I'm concerned about LOA. As we all know, seating depth in small pistol cartridges can significantly impact pressures; and LOA determines seating depth. I'm about to compare my known 124 gr loads' seating depths and figure an equivalent LOA for the 3997 bullet, but if I can find published data, I'd sure like to have a look.

Thanks!
Attached Thumbnails
Published Load Data for Speer #3997 in 9mm-739221-jpg  

Last edited by Krogen; 11-29-2020 at 02:55 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #2  
Old 11-29-2020, 01:33 PM
Nevada Ed's Avatar
Nevada Ed Nevada Ed is offline
Member
Published Load Data for Speer #3997 in 9mm Published Load Data for Speer #3997 in 9mm Published Load Data for Speer #3997 in 9mm Published Load Data for Speer #3997 in 9mm Published Load Data for Speer #3997 in 9mm  
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Reno Nv
Posts: 9,382
Likes: 1,308
Liked 7,100 Times in 3,367 Posts
Default

My "General" loading manual shows the Speer 3997 bullet at;
124 grs
BC .115
SD .141
OAL 1.120"
part# 3997
.355" 9mm UCSP

This bullet will also accept any "Standard" load data with the fps
going from 887 with w231 to 1238 with Blue Dot when shot out of a
S&W M5906 4" pistol with a cci 500 primer.

My old Polish Radom, liked this bullet set at 1.16" OAL with 5.0 grs of Unique, for a light target load.

Have fun.

Last edited by Nevada Ed; 11-29-2020 at 09:08 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #3  
Old 11-29-2020, 03:02 PM
Krogen Krogen is offline
Member
Published Load Data for Speer #3997 in 9mm Published Load Data for Speer #3997 in 9mm Published Load Data for Speer #3997 in 9mm Published Load Data for Speer #3997 in 9mm Published Load Data for Speer #3997 in 9mm  
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Puget Sound
Posts: 1,239
Likes: 2,468
Liked 1,718 Times in 643 Posts
Default

Thanks, Nevada Ed. That pic is interesting. The Speer bullet appears slightly shorter than the other two 124 gr bullets. If loaded to the same LOA, then data for those bullets is usable. Pressures would tend to be lower because of reduced seating depth. The 9mm can be tricky due to the small case volume and relatively high pressures. If you have Quickload, for an eye-opener try playing with seating depth and look at the pressure results. Doesn't take much to make a big difference.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 11-30-2020, 01:56 PM
Nevada Ed's Avatar
Nevada Ed Nevada Ed is offline
Member
Published Load Data for Speer #3997 in 9mm Published Load Data for Speer #3997 in 9mm Published Load Data for Speer #3997 in 9mm Published Load Data for Speer #3997 in 9mm Published Load Data for Speer #3997 in 9mm  
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Reno Nv
Posts: 9,382
Likes: 1,308
Liked 7,100 Times in 3,367 Posts
Default

I have load manuals that have pushed a 124 FMJ all the way down to.................
a OAL of 1.09" and one manual had a FN jacketed bullet at 1.05".

This short OAL did not do well in my 5" pistol and they actually LOST fps, when compared to my loads set at 1.12".
However they might work in some short throat pistols.

I do know that this bullet does work great on Nevada, Jack rabbits, though.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #5  
Old 11-30-2020, 05:39 PM
TMan51 TMan51 is offline
Member
Published Load Data for Speer #3997 in 9mm Published Load Data for Speer #3997 in 9mm Published Load Data for Speer #3997 in 9mm Published Load Data for Speer #3997 in 9mm Published Load Data for Speer #3997 in 9mm  
Join Date: May 2018
Location: UBE, PA
Posts: 158
Likes: 58
Liked 105 Times in 64 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Krogen View Post
Does anybody have published (i.e. loading manual) data for Speer's #3997 bullet in 9mm Parabellum?
The bullet is listed in #12 and #13. What powder(s) are you using?
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #6  
Old 11-30-2020, 11:04 PM
Krogen Krogen is offline
Member
Published Load Data for Speer #3997 in 9mm Published Load Data for Speer #3997 in 9mm Published Load Data for Speer #3997 in 9mm Published Load Data for Speer #3997 in 9mm Published Load Data for Speer #3997 in 9mm  
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Puget Sound
Posts: 1,239
Likes: 2,468
Liked 1,718 Times in 643 Posts
Default

Thanks TMan51. I'd probably use 231 or Titegroup.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 12-01-2020, 12:02 AM
Rock185's Avatar
Rock185 Rock185 is online now
US Veteran
Published Load Data for Speer #3997 in 9mm Published Load Data for Speer #3997 in 9mm Published Load Data for Speer #3997 in 9mm Published Load Data for Speer #3997 in 9mm Published Load Data for Speer #3997 in 9mm  
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Under the Tonto Rim
Posts: 1,312
Likes: 10,153
Liked 1,830 Times in 687 Posts
Default

Krogen, I've loaded 9MM for a very long time, and see my Speer #14 still lists the 3997. Speer lists the OAL at 1.120". I wouldn't go any shorter, and FWIW, have always loaded to the longest OAL that will function reliably. And within my humble experience, loading shorter raises apparent pressures significantly. I've found the longer OALs to function most reliably in any 9MM pistols I had.

I used a lot of the Herco you mentioned for years, but most of my Herco loads were loaded to the top end, what would likely be +P or even +P+ now days.

Titegroup and 231 are both faster powders than I normally used, that I guess would be appropriate for light plinking type loads. My Speer #14 lists a start charge with 231 of 4.0 grains for 887 FPS, with a max load 4.5 grains for 998 FPS. Using Titegroup a start load of 4.0 grains is listed for 1020 FPS, with a max of 4.4 grains for 1095 FPS. Barrel length listed is 4".
__________________
NRA Life, COTEP 640

Last edited by Rock185; 12-08-2020 at 01:10 AM. Reason: FPS typo
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #8  
Old 12-01-2020, 10:12 AM
Krogen Krogen is offline
Member
Published Load Data for Speer #3997 in 9mm Published Load Data for Speer #3997 in 9mm Published Load Data for Speer #3997 in 9mm Published Load Data for Speer #3997 in 9mm Published Load Data for Speer #3997 in 9mm  
Join Date: Sep 2011
Location: Puget Sound
Posts: 1,239
Likes: 2,468
Liked 1,718 Times in 643 Posts
Default

Thanks, Rock185. Good info and much appreciated. It might be that my old Herco load is indeed a better choice than 231 or Titegroup. I still have part of a 1 lb can. Herco seems to have fallen out of favor. I don't see it mentioned often.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 12-01-2020, 10:45 AM
Funflyer's Avatar
Funflyer Funflyer is offline
Member
Published Load Data for Speer #3997 in 9mm Published Load Data for Speer #3997 in 9mm Published Load Data for Speer #3997 in 9mm Published Load Data for Speer #3997 in 9mm Published Load Data for Speer #3997 in 9mm  
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: Central Arizona
Posts: 798
Likes: 714
Liked 1,236 Times in 439 Posts
Default

Here are some pages from Midway's loadmap for the Speer 124 JSP.
Attached Thumbnails
Published Load Data for Speer #3997 in 9mm-speer-jpg   Published Load Data for Speer #3997 in 9mm-speer1-jpg   Published Load Data for Speer #3997 in 9mm-speer2-jpg  
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #10  
Old 12-01-2020, 01:33 PM
Nevada Ed's Avatar
Nevada Ed Nevada Ed is offline
Member
Published Load Data for Speer #3997 in 9mm Published Load Data for Speer #3997 in 9mm Published Load Data for Speer #3997 in 9mm Published Load Data for Speer #3997 in 9mm Published Load Data for Speer #3997 in 9mm  
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Reno Nv
Posts: 9,382
Likes: 1,308
Liked 7,100 Times in 3,367 Posts
Default

Herco powder will do very nice with the longer OAL that will work in your mag's and chambers, as will ALL of the slower burning
and Alliant flake type, slow powders.

Lots of manuals use w231 with the short OAL , since it fits better than Alliant Green Dot that has the same energy but 28% more volume, that needs a longer OAL, to work.

Try a 1.12 & a 1.165" OAL in you pistol just above a starting load and see if the POA and accuracy is different.
I have found that a long OAL load that works the slide, generally has good groups.

Have fun.
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Need Load Data for 146 gr. Speer bullets prplbkrr Reloading 23 12-22-2020 12:16 AM
Load data for Speer 180 gr and Unique delirious Reloading 8 07-30-2020 08:22 PM
Lyman load data VS. Lee load data ferggie Reloading 28 04-24-2017 10:53 PM
45ACP,HP-38, 200grain LSWC, published data......question/clarification peppercorn Reloading 16 08-02-2013 09:06 AM
So, why is there no published load data for +P 9mm and 45 ACP? Rule3 Reloading 10 10-14-2010 01:17 PM

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
smith-wessonforum.com tested by Norton Internet Security smith-wessonforum.com tested by McAfee Internet Security

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:19 PM.


Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO v2.0.42 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2021 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Smith-WessonForum.com is not affiliated with Smith & Wesson Holding Corporation (NASDAQ Global Select: SWHC)