Been reading for years here HP38 & Win231 are one and the same.
I’ve been given a 1 pound container of HP38. I’ve got a partial 8 pound jug of Win231 I am thinking of blending the HP38 into.
I welcome any reliable advice.
Seasons Greetings, Kevin G

What’s the upside?

The upside is that if there is -ANY- difference between the two that you have, you have effectively eliminated that difference, assuming you mix it extremely well.

The downside is that if there is -ANY- difference between the two, you now have nine pounds of a powder that you may never have ever again.

However in reality, I am a true believer in the idea that in handgun loads, from typical handguns, at typical distances from typical shooters, there ain’t no way you would ever notice a difference whether you do this or do not do this.

I will add that when I near the end of one container of powder and I have just maybe a quarter pound left... oh yes, I absolutely mix it in with my next 8-lb’er that I open. And a couple hundred thousand rounds and three decades in, this has worked exceptionally well for me.

What Sevens said.

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Regards,

Tom

Thanks
Kevin G

I’m with the “don’t mix” contingent. I like to work out of a pound can anyway, so I’d use most or all of that first. I might “decant” some out of the big jug to refill the little one when empty or nearly so, just to continue using the smaller, more handy sized can. I would put a tag on the refilled small can identifying the lot from which the powder came. Probably overly cautious, but that’s what I would be likely to do for my own peace of mind.

Froggie

makes no sense, why mix?

I have never bought any HP-38, If I didn't have a stockpile, I might try some. But for 40 years WW231 and Unique are my primary handgun powders!

If you have a 357 Mag Lever Action Rifle, and Like heavy bullets (180 gr JSP Hornady), Look into 4227! Then I used that load in N-Frames also and found it fantastic out of a 4" 28-2 and a 686 4". But too much discomfort for K-frames!

Ivan

I loaded Cowboy loads with WW231 in 45 Colt, 45 Schofield, 44 Special, 44 Russian &, 38 Special, as well as my every day 45 ACP load.

I loaded 124 LRN 9mm for my full auto MAC-10 to the tune of 20,000 rounds, every single one with WW231!

It SHOULD work, but I am also of the DON'T MIX school.

....Steve maybe, can't remember which one said that the two powders are exactly the same. The reason both exist is brand loyalty. He said the reloading community is full of people that think 231 is great and HP38 stinks and vice versa.

I don't mix powders but in this case I might, if I had a good reason. I would use a powder down to where I couldn't fill fill a hopper with the remainder and throw it in with the next jug when they are the same powder.

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"He was kinda funny lookin'"

I am not a proponent of blending unless it is from two containers of the same powder and same lot number. Even then, why do it? HP38 and W-231 are the same powders, have been for decades. I see no logical reason for blending them, but if blended, I doubt there would be any change in how the powders burn.

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VCDL, GOA, NRA

Operational discipline says don't mix, even if you think they are the same.
I mean Accurate has powders with 4064 and 4350 in the name. Would I mix or freely substitute those with IMRs? Uh, no.

I don’t have a powder dispenser, I use the Lee scoops and load one round at a time - I’ve been doing it this way for decades. When I get down to where I don’t have enough for a full scoop, I will blend the remaining few grains into the next pound. If I have an 8 pounder I’ll refill the one pounder, blending in the few remaining grains. However, I can see blending your last few ounces if you need to fill your powder measure to insure you have enough to complete a batch.

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213th FBINA

That is because they are different powders.

I see the point. They HP38 and W231 are the same powders, but they could be of a different lot. Mixing would guarantee a consistent "new" lot.

However, I agree with Sevens, not enough difference in a pistol to worry about it.

Rosewood

I don't mix in the container. In theory if you always mix then your current container contains some trace of every canister you've used. Overtime, again in theory, this could lead to unknown consequences.

When I get to the point where I can go no lower in the hopper of my powder measure I assess. If I plan on continue loading enough to use up what's left I pour the new on top and the old is used up. If I'm stopping soon I'll remove the old to it's canister and break open a new canister. I'll use the old up next session in the same manner, new on top of old.

I also re-verify weight once I get beyond the old in the hopper and into the new. I also always verify weight at the end of a session anyway.

I should probably toss the leftover on the geraniums but I'm too cheap.

No mix please....

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NRA Benefactor

You can't get more safe than: DON'T MIX ANY POWDER.....period.
IMHO as always,
J/

E-mail Hodgdon giving the lot numbers, ask if they can be mixed, and be guided by their advice.

This would be the waste of a good "dime"! You know the answer will be based on LIABILITY!

In the front of every loading manual I've ever read (blasphemy I know) there is a caution to "never" mix powders even if they appear to be the same!

Smiles,

I've asked them twice. The first time was regarding 4 - 1 pound containers of 231 that were of fairly recent manufacture. Their response was that it was up to me but that I should make sure that they were all 231 or HP38 and make sure that they had all been properly stored. I accepted that responsibility and mixed them by combining 1/4 cup of each, mixing them thoroughly, adding another 1/4 cup of each, mixing etc. The accuracy loads were withing 0.2 grains of the accuracy load for the last can I had opened.

The second was for H110, where the new cans were only a few years old but the old can was well over 15 years old. The response said NOT to do it because there was no way to insure that the two batches would be thoroughly mixed. So I didn't. The results of my testing showed that the velocities I had for the old can were vastly different than the velocities for the new when loaded with the same charge.

I'm glad I followed their advice in both cases. The decision as to mix or not mix is up to the user and that user must accept the responsibility for his/her decision. If you decide to mix lots of the same powder, and there have been many on this thread who have done it successfully, you are accepting that responsibility. All we are doing is telling you what our individual decisions were and how they turned out. We don't know how old your powders are, how they have been stored, how much you have of each batch etc. so we are operating with incomplete information.

As you said above, the safest way is to not mix powders.

The test loads in my re load manuals is different for each.

If you check the current online manuals, they list the exact same data for both. Same goes for H110 and 296.

Rosewood

I wouldn't mix, but that's up to you.

Nope, i never mix. I wont even mix the same brand names. I just dont do it.

If I start running low on 231 and have HP38, I pour it in and keep loading.

The same with H110 and W296.

They are the same powders.

Sure lots will vary, but it's the same as adding more W231 from a different lot.

I shoot my handloads. I don't want anyone else to touch them.

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GOA
USA Shooting Supporter

The only difference between W231 and HP38 is possibly the lot number.

As far as mixing - I don't see that there is any harm in mixing lots of the same powder.

When my first 8lb jug of Bullseye got near the end, I dumped it into the next jug and shook it up. I couldn't tell any difference.

If both lot A and lot B meets specifications, so will A+B.

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Common sense isn't so common.

Mix if you want. 1lb bottles are easier to handle.

I see no good reason to mix the two. It's bad practice IMO.

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Freedom is never free!!
SWCA #3437

Of course, unless you are able to repeatedly buy from the same lot, you will never see the same powder again, mixed or not. That is one reason to buy the big jugs rather than the 1# canisters - you will be using powder from the same lot for much longer.

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Common sense isn't so common.

If you want the real answer try contacting General Dynamics. They manufacture the following which are pertinent to this question:


H110 and W-296 which are both distributed by Hodgdon under the Hodgdon (H110) and Winchester brands. Hodgdon does the final packaging and distribution for both brand names.


HP-38 and Winchester W231 which are both distributed by Hodgdon under the Hodgdon HP-38) and Winchester W231 brands. Hodgdon does the final packaging and distribution for both brand names.
You can contact Hodgdon too, but will probably not receive a definitive answer there.


I will let you look up contact information yourself.


If it helps this question has been going around for over 30 years. I called General Dynamics, Engineering specifically about H110/W296 and was informed that both product shipped to Hodgdon and Winchester were identical and could often come from the same lot number! Why would anything change now that all production all production is distributed by Hodgdon??? You can be as paranoid as you like, but there is no reason to not mix in these specific cases.

I personally would not mix a 1 pound with a larger can...just use the 1 pounder first. I once had an anomally with 231.. I opened a new sealed can(different lot) and started loading it without checking and the new can of powder was throwing charges that weighed more than a grain heavier 6.5 grains ...no changes to the press or powder measure. . Never could figure that one. I actually dumped the powder from the Dillon measure and tried a different jug of powder and it went back to the original amount of powder...5.4 grains. I still have most of that anomalous pound of powder. That was in my Dillon Super 1050 in 45 auto. I loaded about 175 rounds before I checked the powder charges. duh! Still have them in a box to be torn down

BTW many years ago I got a large box...25 lbs... of HP 38 from a master powder distributor...really cheap....10 bucks. When I opened the box the powder was in a plastic bag....with a tag denoting the powder to be Winchester 231. Don't know why he had the powder but he was one of the last full line powder distributors on the east coast. Also I was told by a fellow at Hodgdon that HS 6 and Win 540...HS 7 and Win 571...H414 and Win 760 are all matching numbers of powders... I was also told that 760 and I think AA2700 are the same powder...but don't take that to the bank. I'm sure there are other correspomding types of powders too...such as AA 9 and WC 820 may be a match...but I have never used AA9

Mixing the remains of one Lots of HP38 or 231 with a new Lot # of the same powder is one thing. I’ve done it, as I’m sure some here have. Mixing two “different “ powders together, because the internet said they are the same? Don’t think so - but that’s just me.

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"Your other right........."

What if you call the manufacturer and they say they are indeed the same?

In this case (HP38 & Win231) they are NOW the exact same. Both are NOW packaged from the same lot of powder, and can be seen to have the same lot numbers.

They have not always been identical.

The downside of mixing them is the same as mixing two different lots of different ages. Maybe no downside at all.

The upside is you get to throw out one empty bottle now. Pffft. Run the one pounder through your PM, and follow it with the remnants of the 8 lb. If your ammo changes, you'll know why.

Even lot to lot Win 231 is not exactly the same. Several years back their was a "hot" lot of 231. As I recall, in that instance 5.3 grains of the hot lot gave velocity equal to the usual 5.8 gr loading.

The only time I'd suggest dumping the remnants from one container into another is if BOTH are exactly the same lot number.

Unlikely the two containers you mention are exactly the same.

I do not mix powders. Even of the same type and brand. I have never mixed powders of the same lot either. That may be acceptable but I have never found the need to do it. I have heard for years that 231 and HP38 are the same powder but time and time again I run across load data that shows them using different charge weights for the same load.

Are they both made in St. Marks FL?

Then I’d ask the manufacturer to explain why they have two different labels. If it’s just for “marketing“, then the question is where is the explanatory statement on their website or on the label itself that states the powders are, indeed, the same and interchangeable.
Trust but verify.
If it’s not in “writing”, then it’s not supported.

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"Your other right........."

I've always found that the best way to avoid liability is to say: "IT's UP TO YOU.. YOUR DECISION".... or:
"DON'T EVER MIX ANY POWDER"... period.
IMHO again,
J.

Check the load data for the 2 powders on the Hodgdon website and their loading books. The reason load data differs is mainly because of the testing procedures by different testers Remember their euiipment differs from each other as does the lot numbers and other components. That said I still don't mix large amount of powder anyway. Maybe an ounce or two. And only if in the same lot and typically from the same jug or keg

Was taught a long time ago not to mix any powders. Went I get that low that I can't get enough to make up more than a few rounds, it goes in the wifes posey bed..........

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USMC 69-93 Combat Pistol Inst.

OK, a different take although some touched on it.

I believe many adhere to the principal that the powder measure needs to be "at least" half full, preferably more to get accurate drops. I have a reloading buddy who is adamant about that.

So what do you do when you empty you last 1lb bottle of W231 and you have very little in your powder measure and it can throw off your drops?

I then hand weigh each charge.... because I'm that cheap. Previous advice is also excellent.... dump it in your wife's posie patch....

J.