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Old 12-18-2020, 04:51 PM
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AMMO SHORTAGE - REALLY? Noooooooooooo (DUH!) AMMO SHORTAGE - REALLY? Noooooooooooo (DUH!) AMMO SHORTAGE - REALLY? Noooooooooooo (DUH!) AMMO SHORTAGE - REALLY? Noooooooooooo (DUH!) AMMO SHORTAGE - REALLY? Noooooooooooo (DUH!)  
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Default AMMO SHORTAGE - REALLY? Noooooooooooo (DUH!)

Not sure how many of you caught this story.

Ammo Shortage Will Last Deep into 2021
American Rifleman | Ammo Shortage Will Last Deep into 2021

Hopefully people will start to realize there is alot of lies being told.

And the CEO says this????
ďWe currently have over a yearís worth of orders for ammunition in excess of $1 billion,Ē he said in his opening remarks.

All the people that are without jobs, this guy cant put people to work to catch up the orders?
He`s lucky i`m not his boss, he`d be on the unemployment line for his stupid statement.

They aren`t going to catch these orders up, this BS is being done on purpose.
What we need are PATRIOTS building ammo plants, powder and primer facilities!

Then all the fat an lazy CEO`s can feak out when other companies form and steal their profit glory.

Last edited by PaPow; 12-18-2020 at 05:01 PM.
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Old 12-18-2020, 10:44 PM
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Old 12-18-2020, 10:53 PM
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You can't build a new factory overnight and you can't make more than your factory is capable of making if running 24 hrs per day. Most businesses have experienced people missing. There are also shortages in certain key materials needed.
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Old 12-18-2020, 11:26 PM
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Yeah, like I posted in another thread...

Using the example in the video above: 7 million new gun owners in the last 9 months, if each bought just 2 boxes (100 rounds) that is 700 million rounds of ammo in 9 months. Just to keep up with that demand would require producing nearly 2.6 MILLION rounds per day 7 days a week. Running 24 hours per day that would be over 108 THOUSAND rounds per hour, 24 hours per day, 7 days a week, with no down time for maintenance or anything else. And that is just PRODUCTION. It doesn't take int account the problems of getting the raw materials in, packaging the product, OR getting it out of the factory and distributed to the stores.

And that would be just for the new shooters. That wouldn't even include trying to supply ammo to the other 100 million of us established shooters too. It also wouldn't do anything to address any of the panic buying that has been going on either.

All of the things that lead to this problem have taken place in the last 9 months and there was no way anyone could have foreseen it or expected it. So nobody was prepared for it. As others have pointed out you can't even build a factory and equip it and hire/train all the employees, and then get the operation up and producing ammo in that amount of time.

Just suppose that they could though. Suppose they spent hundreds of millions of dollars to build a bunch of new factories and start producing ammo. Once production catches up to demand and the shelves are all stocked again, then what? Anybody who believes the current level of demand is going to last long term is delusional.

So after spending hundreds of millions or even a few billion dollars to ramp up production capacity, 6 months from now demand drops off and 9mm is going for 16 or 17 cents a round again, just like it was this time last year. Then what? How do they make back all that money they sunk into increased production?

The answer is THEY DON'T - at least not in a reasonable time frame. Maybe they make the money back and pay off the investment over a period of 5 or 10 years. That is IF they are lucky and don't go bankrupt trying to keep up with the payments as they are paying it off. What would the shareholders think and feel about that? Think the CEO who made that huge investment into increasing production would be around long?

People need to stop with the conspiracy stuff and take a realistic look at how business works. It is at times like this that I see why it is so easy for the socialists to sell the idea to all of our young people that THEY can "give" everyone everything they want and need for FREE. If they don't understand the fundamentals of economics or business or production, it is easy to sell bovine-feces ideas and conspiracy "stuff" to people.
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Old 12-19-2020, 01:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaPow View Post
Not sure how many of you caught this story.

Ammo Shortage Will Last Deep into 2021
American Rifleman | Ammo Shortage Will Last Deep into 2021

Hopefully people will start to realize there is alot of lies being told.

And the CEO says this????
ďWe currently have over a yearís worth of orders for ammunition in excess of $1 billion,Ē he said in his opening remarks.

All the people that are without jobs, this guy cant put people to work to catch up the orders?
He`s lucky i`m not his boss, he`d be on the unemployment line for his stupid statement.

They aren`t going to catch these orders up, this BS is being done on purpose.
What we need are PATRIOTS building ammo plants, powder and primer facilities!

Then all the fat an lazy CEO`s can feak out when other companies form and steal their profit glory.
You would need more equip to put more people to work. Not gonna happen for a cyclical event like what is going on now. As long as local govt & soon to be federal govt being incompetent & not protecting its citizens, guns & ammo will continue to be in high demand. Yes, I can easily see this time next year until things settle down. Now you can take the alum foil hat off.
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Old 12-19-2020, 09:23 AM
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Its easy for someone not close to manufacturing to say "just hire more people". As a guy whose getting ready to retire out of manufacturing, semi skilled workers for manufacturing are in short supply. Whether short of skills or short of ambition, right now it is hard to find people willing to learn and put in 50 to 60 hours a week on a factory floor to make a living.
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Old 12-19-2020, 10:10 AM
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There are several issues that effects production capacity. Labor is one, a significant one, but only one. Equipment , tooling and production space are others as well as training for the labor that will use the equipment and tooling in the production space to produce the product. Most companies plan their production capacity based on annual and/or seasonal demand. Materials used to produce the product are typically not warehoused, as that cost money, but are designed to deliver JIT (just in time). That is all materials are delivered in time when needed using MRP or Materials Resource Planning theory and technique. This synchronizes materials arrival with labor, equipment and production space availability, thereby reducing cost of storage and optimizes existing production space and capacity. All that, with a little Lean Six Sigma thrown in, allows you to buy a box of 9mm or 38 SPL for less then $15.00 a box. If you want companies to have excess capacity waiting in the wings, then you’ll have to pay for it with much high ammo prices.
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Old 12-19-2020, 10:14 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaPow View Post
All the people that are without jobs, this guy cant put people to work to catch up the orders?
He`s lucky i`m not his boss, he`d be on the unemployment line for his stupid statement.

They aren`t going to catch these orders up, this BS is being done on purpose.
What we need are PATRIOTS building ammo plants, powder and primer facilities!

Then all the fat an lazy CEO`s can feak out when other companies form and steal their profit glory.
You want shoddy ammo that is made by unskilled labor in hastily erected plants?
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Old 12-19-2020, 01:29 PM
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Mr. Vanderbrink was speaking directly to folks like you. Take your tinfoil hat off and just Google supply and demand.



Quote:
Originally Posted by PaPow View Post
Not sure how many of you caught this story.

Ammo Shortage Will Last Deep into 2021
American Rifleman | Ammo Shortage Will Last Deep into 2021

Hopefully people will start to realize there is alot of lies being told.

And the CEO says this????
ďWe currently have over a yearís worth of orders for ammunition in excess of $1 billion,Ē he said in his opening remarks.

All the people that are without jobs, this guy cant put people to work to catch up the orders?
He`s lucky i`m not his boss, he`d be on the unemployment line for his stupid statement.

They aren`t going to catch these orders up, this BS is being done on purpose.
What we need are PATRIOTS building ammo plants, powder and primer facilities!

Then all the fat an lazy CEO`s can feak out when other companies form and steal their profit glory.
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Old 12-19-2020, 01:42 PM
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Presuming you have the people, the equipment and the raw materials you don't just snap your fingers and get more output.
A naÔve post if you think they're slacking on output JUST to drive up price.
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Old 12-19-2020, 01:47 PM
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Assuming that you already have your own, you might want to protect your cat also.
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Old 12-19-2020, 02:39 PM
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Pogo; "We have met the enemy, and they is us". When a guy thinks "I gotta get mine first", and runs out and buys 10 times what he would normally use in a year, or the guy that normally buys ammo 3 days before he leaves for his annual hunting trip and buys 5 times more than usual or the guy that normally uses 1,000 primers per year and rushes out and buys 3 cases, these are the reason factories can't keep up. I think that the "factories hiding ammo in warehouses", "factories won't hire", or "factories stopped selling components" are just internet, rumor BS...
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Old 12-19-2020, 02:43 PM
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Default Some kid of ----

my gut feeling leads me to believe there is some kind of a conspiracy orchestrated by the government. Now I cant prove it but with all the happenings taking place with gun control and all it may be true.
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Old 12-19-2020, 02:44 PM
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Pogo; "We have met the enemy, and they is us". When a guy thinks "I gotta get mine first", and runs out and buys 10 times what he would normally use in a year, or the guy that normally buys ammo 3 days before he leaves for his annual hunting trip and buys 5 times more than usual or the guy that normally uses 1,000 primers per year and rushes out and buys 3 cases, these are the reason factories can't keep up. I think that the "factories hiding ammo in warehouses", "factories won't hire", or "factories stopped selling components" are just internet, rumor BS...
I agree but where are they buying it has to be available in order to hoard it
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Old 12-19-2020, 03:03 PM
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went on bass pro Canadian website everything is available ammo , bullets, primers, brass any size, type and kind most all made in America. so tell me now what the problem is
Bye the way not shipped to the usa.
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Old 12-19-2020, 04:09 PM
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went on bass pro Canadian website everything is available ammo , bullets, primers, brass any size, type and kind most all made in America. so tell me now what the problem is
Bye the way not shipped to the usa.
That one isn't too hard to understand. They still have stock because they don't ship orders to the US and they don't have 7 million new gun owners buying up all the available stock.

Emptying or refilling the distribution channels takes a while. They don't send trucks loaded with ammo directly to each store. Big retail chains and distributors place bulk orders months in advance and warehouse the product for distribution to the retail outlets. Right now they are still selling existing stock, but since those stocks aren't being replaced, they may well experience some shortages in the near future too - even though they aren't panic buying.
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Old 12-19-2020, 04:33 PM
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We is buying Ammo and components faster than they can make them.
The Canadians aren’t having the post election Trauma we are experiencing.
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Old 12-19-2020, 05:07 PM
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Deleted double post, sorry.
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Old 12-19-2020, 05:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by PaPow View Post
Not sure how many of you caught this story.

Ammo Shortage Will Last Deep into 2021
American Rifleman | Ammo Shortage Will Last Deep into 2021

Hopefully people will start to realize there is alot of lies being told.

And the CEO says this????
ďWe currently have over a yearís worth of orders for ammunition in excess of $1 billion,Ē he said in his opening remarks.

All the people that are without jobs, this guy cant put people to work to catch up the orders?
He`s lucky i`m not his boss, he`d be on the unemployment line for his stupid statement.

They aren`t going to catch these orders up, this BS is being done on purpose.
What we need are PATRIOTS building ammo plants, powder and primer facilities!

Then all the fat an lazy CEO`s can feak out when other companies form and steal their profit glory.

Some of us have been through a few of these "shortages". You can rant all you want to about no ammo on the shelves but a prudent person would have a supply on hand to get them through several years of high demand or have enough components to load for several years until things got back to normal. I didn't see any shortages in the last few years and the prices were pretty low. So yeah, blame the ammo manufacturers for your problems when the reality is those companies are in business to make a profit and not sabotage their bottom line by building new plants they will have to close and hiring people they will have to lay off when the market gets back to normal. These "shortages" are created by us, the shooting public when unusual events take place and everyone panics. You would think we would learn but evidently many people want the just-in-time supply chain to work 100% of the time. Those are the people who will forever be disappointed.
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Old 12-19-2020, 05:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by THE PILGRIM View Post
We is buying Ammo and components faster than they can make them.
The Canadians arenít having the post election Trauma we are experiencing.
Plus our problems started long before the election. The pandemic and social unrest are just as responsible. I don't know what the demographic breakdown is, but I'd put money that half of the new gun buyers voted for each side of the ticket - and I can't see Democrats going out and buying guns just because their guy won!

All I'm saying is that there is more than one reason why we are in the bind we are in. And just like the kid who swallowed the coin - this too shall pass!
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Old 12-19-2020, 05:40 PM
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Under present political situation, no sane person would invest in building a ammo plant. In fact the industry won’t want to risk expansion costs at existing facilities. When and if things do stabilize they will keep up with the market. Hoarding and speculators along with new gun owners have caused the shortage. Also they told us computers would gives us many more choices. This is a lie. The computer controls production on everything. If sales fall below a certain number the item is dropped from production. The companies who can sell 100% of their production, with minimum workers and at panic inflated prices are not worried. Everything is for Today with no thought for tomorrow.
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Old 12-20-2020, 01:06 PM
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I agree but where are they buying it has to be available in order to hoard it
The panic started about 10-12 months ago, plenty of time to deplete warehouse/store stocks. Doesn't take too long when buying jumps 500%.

BTW; aluminum foil, the heavy duty type is still available for hats...
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Old 12-20-2020, 01:15 PM
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went on bass pro Canadian website everything is available ammo , bullets, primers, brass any size, type and kind most all made in America. so tell me now what the problem is
Bye the way not shipped to the usa.
I have found the same thing every time i search for components...in stock in Canada, no stock in the US. Canadian companies won't ship to the US and you can't drive across the border to make a purchase....
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Old 12-20-2020, 03:30 PM
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Old 12-20-2020, 03:46 PM
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went on bass pro Canadian website everything is available ammo , bullets, primers, brass any size, type and kind most all made in America. so tell me now what the problem is
Bye the way not shipped to the usa.
You fail to understand economics. Ammo manuf have contracts to fill all over the world. They are going to fill them to the extent possoble.
The entire population of Canada is about what the gun owners are in Kalif, Tx & Fl. Do the math.
If every gun owner in the US kept a reasonable supply of ammo, they wouldnt all be rushing out to buy at once Walmart spoiled many casual shooters & they sold about 50% of all ammo in the US. Now pretty much gone.
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Old 12-20-2020, 04:10 PM
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You can help by shooting single shots and not just ammo dumps. I get disgusted when I go to our range in the sticks and see 25 rounds or more of 223/5.56 spent brass laying 10 yards from the target. Spray and pray practice is not helping shortages.
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Old 12-20-2020, 05:20 PM
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You can help by shooting single shots and not just ammo dumps. I get disgusted when I go to our range in the sticks and see 25 rounds or more of 223/5.56 spent brass laying 10 yards from the target. Spray and pray practice is not helping shortages.
I REALLY like this post!!!!!!!!!!!
It wasn't many years ago that people were posting on this forum on how they blew thru a brick of 22 rimfire over the weekend or more.
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Old 12-20-2020, 06:01 PM
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The pendulum will swing again and I will buy again actually I will buy more. Than this time. I literally had a guy offer me an opportunity for a handgun. to get cash and 9mm ammo

I wish I had more rounds of ammo and I would be outfitting my collection on trades alone

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Old 12-20-2020, 07:31 PM
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You can help by shooting single shots and not just ammo dumps. I get disgusted when I go to our range in the sticks and see 25 rounds or more of 223/5.56 spent brass laying 10 yards from the target. Spray and pray practice is not helping shortages.
If that upsets you, you might consider not going to the range for a while. I donít think the other shooters want to pick out what gun you use or how you use it. Just an idea about freedom.
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Old 12-20-2020, 07:44 PM
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I hope it is us, the gun owners, who are causing this shortage, and not some...other causes.
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Old 12-20-2020, 07:48 PM
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I hope it is us, the gun owners, who are causing this shortage, and not some...other causes.
Oh, no! Not those dang space aliens again!

I dun run out of tinfoil for a new hat. Gonna have to use the aluminum siding off the single-wide this time!

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Old 12-20-2020, 08:10 PM
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You can help by shooting single shots and not just ammo dumps. I get disgusted when I go to our range in the sticks and see 25 rounds or more of 223/5.56 spent brass laying 10 yards from the target. Spray and pray practice is not helping shortages.
Only 25 rounds? Kind of pathetic.

I hope you donít show up when Iím at the range. I put 225 rounds of .38 Special and 170 rounds of 9mm down range last week. I plan on going back on Tuesday if the temperatures get into the mid 40ís. I stocked up for situations like this.
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Old 12-20-2020, 08:13 PM
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What we need are PATRIOTS building ammo plants, powder and primer facilities!

Then all the fat an lazy CEO`s can feak out when other companies form and steal their profit glory.
Go build an ammo plant. I hear itís pretty easy to get one up and running....
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Old 12-20-2020, 08:45 PM
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Seems like I remember that the former administration and the EPA closed down the last lead foundry in the U.S back in 2013.

I can only imagine where our present supply of lead comes from.


I wonder who we could ask about that.
When manufacturing moved overseas they took a lot of the pollution with them. When I was a kid in the 60's there were greazy little factories everywhere. Now they're gone, along with the slag heaps and oil slicks.

My lead comes from...I'm not gonna say.
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Old 12-20-2020, 10:42 PM
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When manufacturing moved overseas they took a lot of the pollution with them. When I was a kid in the 60's there were greazy little factories everywhere. Now they're gone, along with the slag heaps and oil slicks.

My lead comes from...I'm not gonna say.
Yeah, greasy little factories everywhere. That was terrible. The new laws and regs have made it possible for thousands of men to stay home. Never having to work in greasy little factories, dark damp mines or hot dirty mills again. Most metals now are made in mini mills, slang for reduction of reclaimed metal. Copper and lead are over 80% recycled.I just watched promo video made by CEO of Federal. He did mention that raw materials were getting hard to come by. I donít know if he ment now because of CV-19 or in general.
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Old 12-20-2020, 11:50 PM
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Yeah, greasy little factories everywhere. That was terrible. The new laws and regs have made it possible for thousands of men to stay home. Never having to work in greasy little factories, dark damp mines or hot dirty mills again. Most metals now are made in mini mills, slang for reduction of reclaimed metal. Copper and lead are over 80% recycled.I just watched promo video made by CEO of Federal. He did mention that raw materials were getting hard to come by. I donít know if he ment now because of CV-19 or in general.
You being sarcastic?
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Old 12-21-2020, 11:18 AM
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I get disgusted when I go to our range in the sticks and see 25 rounds or more of 223/5.56 spent brass laying 10 yards from the target.
You get disgusted? I think it's early Christmas as I scarf up that brass for some future day when primers will be available again.
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Old 12-21-2020, 11:53 AM
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Itís not that easy to find quality people to hire off the street that have the attention to detail required for that kind of work.
It takes months of training time, and the mistakes newbies inevitably make are almost always expensive to deal with.
Then, about the time the new hires that have not been fired or quit become fairly productive, it is time to lay them off when backlogs are no longer an issue.
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Old 12-21-2020, 12:09 PM
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Not sure how many of you caught this story.

Ammo Shortage Will Last Deep into 2021
American Rifleman | Ammo Shortage Will Last Deep into 2021

Hopefully people will start to realize there is alot of lies being told.

And the CEO says this????
ďWe currently have over a yearís worth of orders for ammunition in excess of $1 billion,Ē he said in his opening remarks.

All the people that are without jobs, this guy cant put people to work to catch up the orders?
He`s lucky i`m not his boss, he`d be on the unemployment line for his stupid statement.

They aren`t going to catch these orders up, this BS is being done on purpose.
What we need are PATRIOTS building ammo plants, powder and primer facilities!

Then all the fat an lazy CEO`s can feak out when other companies form and steal their profit glory.

So you think you could have a primer plant or ammo plant up and running in a few months to a year? Just the environmental impact studies and state and federal permitting processes would take years.
In a couple of years or so gun and ammo companies are going to lose their legal protections from frivolous lawsuits. This means various State Attorneys General and crime victimís lawyers will being filing ruinous lawsuits against these companies.

How much money are YOU willing to invest in the ammunition manufacturing business?

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Old 12-21-2020, 02:00 PM
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I hope it is us, the gun owners, who are causing this shortage, and not some...other causes.
Yep, us and not the FBI, Homeland, ICE, etc. getting all the ammo, because the government trying to disarm the citizenry via the back door...

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Old 12-21-2020, 02:06 PM
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If that upsets you, you might consider not going to the range for a while. I donít think the other shooters want to pick out what gun you use or how you use it. Just an idea about freedom.
Do you mean like in the '70s when folks kept buying gas hogs, muscle cars and small tanks during the gas shortages rather than buying economy cars? I remember quite a lot of responsible adult minded folks considered how much gas their car used. Not about freedom, but definitely not "I can do anything I want regardless, cause I'm a free citizen" thinking. I outgrew "magazine dumps" 40 years ago...

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Old 12-21-2020, 02:30 PM
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I worked in manufacturing all my life. I've become accustomed to those that have no experience in producing large quantities of anything believing that somehow the products just magically appear. There's little concept of the amount of work involved and the supply chain required.

If you'd like to put up about $10,000,000 as a down payment we could start building one, it'll only take a couple of years.

We have to find a location, permit the building, contract it out. Order the necessary machinery which isn't just sitting in a warehouse somewhere. It has to be built. Then we have to contract for raw materials and find some smart people to work for us. A bunch of them.

The problems we have, everybody we are ordering from have the exact same problems. If you were his boss you'd bankrupt that company in less than a year.
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Old 12-21-2020, 02:33 PM
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Only 25 rounds? Kind of pathetic.

I hope you donít show up when Iím at the range. I put 225 rounds of .38 Special and 170 rounds of 9mm down range last week. I plan on going back on Tuesday if the temperatures get into the mid 40ís. I stocked up for situations like this.
I stocked up as well. I don't consider 15 to 20 yards a far enough distance for my shooting for 9mm and 38 so when I see someone 223/5.56 at a closer distance on the pistol range and call it "training" I wonder if their training involves using the sights.
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Old 12-21-2020, 02:39 PM
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Yep, us and not the FBI, Homeland, ICE, etc. getting all the ammo, because the libtard government trying to disarm the citizenry via the back door...
Donít forget the 5 million or so rounds in the hands of the IRS (?!).....

GAO: IRS Had 4,487 Guns; 5,062,006 Rounds of Ammunition | CNSNews
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Old 12-21-2020, 02:59 PM
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I stocked up as well. I don't consider 15 to 20 yards a far enough distance for my shooting for 9mm and 38 so when I see someone 223/5.56 at a closer distance on the pistol range and call it "training" I wonder if their training involves using the sights.
Probably one of the goofy AR pistols. Every time I've seen one at the range they're shooting at 10 to 15 yards. Based on the groups sizes I've seen, I think they need 30 round magazines in order to get a couple rounds on target. I get a chuckle out of a 100 year old 6 shooter getting half the group size at longer distances.
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Old 12-21-2020, 03:51 PM
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We have to find a location, permit the building, contract it out. Order the necessary machinery which isn't just sitting in a warehouse somewhere. It has to be built. Then we have to contract for raw materials and find some smart people to work for us. A bunch of them.

The problems we have, everybody we are ordering from have the exact same problems. If you were his boss you'd bankrupt that company in less than a year.
Excellent post!

It takes a lot of time, money and skilled employees to get new machines up and running.

I would say anyone who posts like the OP did has no idea what is being spent for constant upgrades, process improvements and new equipment in the ammunition industry.

People are hoarding more ammo than the ammunition companies are! How do you think they make money? By hoarding their products?

As far as Jason Vanderbrink's "whining" message from the other thread-it doesn't sound like whining to me! Sounds more like just being tired of stupid things people say.

1 Billion dollars in sales does not mean they are making $1,000,000,000 in profit. Just that amount of sales on backorder when the product gets produced.

Oh well! Have a nice day!

Ed
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Old 12-21-2020, 04:48 PM
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Yep, us and not the FBI, Homeland, ICE, etc. getting all the ammo, because the libtard government trying to disarm the citizenry via the back door...
GET OVER IT ALREADY...
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Old 12-21-2020, 05:16 PM
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If everyone complaining about this shortage had spent 2K/yr. buying ammo for a reserve in the last 4 years they wouldn't have anything to complain about.

Instead it's the ammo manufacturers fault now. Will they stock up when the shortage is over. Probably not.
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Old 12-21-2020, 05:19 PM
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Its easy for someone not close to manufacturing to say "just hire more people". As a guy whose getting ready to retire out of manufacturing, semi skilled workers for manufacturing are in short supply. Whether short of skills or short of ambition, right now it is hard to find people willing to learn and put in 50 to 60 hours a week on a factory floor to make a living.
We can't find people to work 40 hours a week! Outside in the fresh air! There's a whole generation of laziness out there, and they're making babies. I wish that they made a robot that would work in commercial roofing. But it ain't gonna happen.
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Old 12-21-2020, 05:40 PM
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We can't find people to work 40 hours a week! Outside in the fresh air! There's a whole generation of laziness out there, and they're making babies. I wish that they made a robot that would work in commercial roofing. But it ain't gonna happen.
Well... they are YOUR kids, so what did you do wrong? Just wondering...
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