Titegroup for 357

raljr1 · Jan 1, 2021

My brother has a lb of Titegroup and wants us to load some 357 magnum with it. When I look in the load books for 158 gr SJHP and 158 gr SLWC it appears that the load recommended for the jacketed bullets, just under 6 grains, only generates about 1100 fps, which seem slow to me. I have been loading 14.6 gr ww296 that the same books list velocity at 1400 fps. Are there any concerns using Titegroup for the 357 with either of those bullets? any concern of how little powder is in the case?

Are there other calibers for which Titegroup is better suited?

Of course I will reference my 4 different manuals to decide which load, but counsel on the above questions is appreciated.

And I just noted that the Hogdon site specifies magnum primers. He has those so maybe that makes all the difference?

OKFC05 · Jan 1, 2021

Titegroup is a medium powder (think .38 Special) and you can load all the .357 you want, but only at "midrange" speeds as shown in the Hodgdon charts. You do not need magnum primers for Titegroup, but Hodgdon arbitrarily chose it for loading .357, which is OK but not necessary. The primer choice is based on the powder, not the case it is in. I use only SPP for Titegroup.
Titegroup is one of the most popular powders for action pistol competition in .38, 9mm and .40 S&W. It will not produce true magnum velocity in .357 cases nor would I expect it to. On the other hand, it is much more pleasant to shoot in short barrels, without the horrendous blast and fireball of 296.

gwrench · Jan 1, 2021

Titegroup is a fast powder that works well for modest velocity and good accuracy. I use it in 38 Special and 32 H&R.

W296/H110 is a slow powder that works well for max velocity and power. It makes for a lot of blast and noise too. Usually magnum primers are recommended for it.

Pushing the fast powder to do the work of a slow powder isn't a good idea. An overcharge or double charge of a fast powder like Bullseye or Titegroup can destroy a gun.

Each has their uses and good points. I suggest loading a few of each and see what you like.

Sometimes I like to try some real hot and heavy loads but the charm wears off after a cylinder or two.

raljr1 · Jan 1, 2021

OKFC05 said:
It will not produce true magnum velocity in .357 cases nor would I expect it to.

Thank you. I think I'll suggest we use something else for the 357s and save the Titegroup for 38, 32 and maybe 45 acp

Robert

raljr1 · Jan 1, 2021

I don't see the need for anything near max loads when most or what we do is kill paper and tin cans....we might load up some heavier stuff for 44 mag for hunting...

Robert

Nevada Ed · Jan 1, 2021

Titegroup is on the order of Bullseye, which is a fast powder that does really well with light target loads and has lots of data out there, for this use.

Chamber pressures will go to Maximum before you get a full load in most calibers but both will usually get a "Full" standard load out of most calibers, with a maximum load of powder, that I have used over the years.

Have fun and stay safe.

BC38 · Jan 1, 2021

raljr1 said:
I don't see the need for anything near max loads when most or what we do is kill paper and tin cans....we might load up some heavier stuff for 43 mag for hunting...

Robert

I'm familiar with 41 mag, and 44 mag, but not 43 mag

I'm sure you meant 41 mag or 44 mag, but I'm not sure which.

raljr1 · Jan 1, 2021

BC38 said:
I'm sure you meant 41 mag or 44 mag, but I'm not sure which.

Fat fingers
....fixed

Robert

chief38 · Jan 1, 2021

From my experience when using Titegroup in 357 mag's with small PP's you loose 35 - 50 fps velocity - everything else being equal. This has been my experience from actual Chronograph results.

As far as Tightgroup powder goes, I find it excellent for use in both 38 Spl. as well as 357 Mag's. While I usually use W231 in 45acp, if and when I'm out of the W231, Titegroup will work for those as well. Also good for 9mm.

Sevens · Jan 1, 2021

A max published load of Titegroup in .357 Magnum:

WILL NOT EVER:
—produce the velocity of the proper powder
—produce the recoil/feel of the proper powder
—produce the familiar sound of the proper powder

WILL ALWAYS:
—produce the SAME PEAK PRESSURE as the proper powder for a true magnum load

—produce a pressure curve that is spiky and nasty at/over max where a proper powder is linear and predictable

If you really want to use Titegroup in a magnum revolver round, it is serviceable for light loads that do not act or feel like the full blown capability of the caliber. This is absolutely fine, but max loads of Titegroup is all the stress, far more risk and nowhere near the payoff and result of using the proper powder.

Why do folks choose Titegroup in magnum revolver rounds? It’s because there is load data for it. And because it seems “economical.” It is penny wise and pound foolish.

A max published load of H110 in .357 Magnum makes a full, fiery top-tier load. And if somehow you edged past max, even though you barely have room to do so (BARELY) you might see a little sticky extraction, maybe your brass gets hammered a little bit. Your loads will go a little faster.

A max published load of Titegroup in .357 Max will get you like 75% of the ability of the caliber with all of the same peak pressure. And if you accidentally go higher (and you have three times the open space to do so) you can peel back your revolver like a blooming onion from Outback Steakhouse. Maybe lose an eyeball too.

For a load that won’t feel, act, sound or perform like a round of .357 Magnum factory ammo.

STORMINORMAN · Jan 1, 2021

Sevens: Please, don't sugar-coat it! Tell us how you REALLY feel!

Cheers!

P.S. For these exact reasons (or opinion, or recommendation, or whatever?) I have never used this powder. It must have SOME redeeming quality, perhaps not-so-much in 357 Magnum...?

raljr1 · Jan 1, 2021

Yeah, Sevens. I already figured that 296 or 231 are better for this application. Brother does not reload and probably someone told him this was a good all around powder. I did notice that pressures we much higher with Titegroup than other powders. Thanks...

Robert

series guy · Jan 1, 2021

I have loaded and shot thousands of .357 Magnum rounds with Titegroup. I load 4.5 grains with a Berrys plated 158 grain round nose bullet. In fact I won our club pin shoot this year shooting these out of a Model 627 Pro Series 4" gun. It's a fantastic load that's easy on the gun and the shooter. Just cleaned the brass and reloaded last summers rounds.

342ti · Jan 1, 2021

It's too fast a powder for magnum loads. Use 2400 for mag stuff, your Titegroup for 38spl, 9mm, 45acp

iouri · Jan 1, 2021

Wouldn’t be my 1st 2nd or even third choice for tall mag case. It’s too dense, too fast powder. I don’t think you’d be able to identify double charge visually in that case.

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rwsmith · Jan 2, 2021

One thing about Titegroup.....

Well,two things. A little goes a long way. That can be a problem because it is easy to double charge fast powders because they barely fill the bottom of the case.

I shoot everything in my .357 from target load .38s to full bore magnum, all in .357 brass. You are right however in that you need a magnum powder to get the most out of a .357 but Titegroup can be useful, too. It wouldn't hurt to load up a few rounds while you are at it to test it out.

sctman800 · Jan 2, 2021

I use Titegroup in 38spl, 9mm and 45acp and it works fine, but like most others said it is not for magnum type performance. Jim.

Oldfrt · Jan 2, 2021

I use Tightgroup in 38sp, 357mag, 45ACP, and 45LC for range use. They always go bang, I only charge one case at a time set the bullet on the case and then seat it. I can see the problem in using this powder in a progressive press but in a slow single stage and taking your time, paying attention to detail lowers the risk to near zero. I like it because it cleans up nicely both guns and cases, and I get a lot of rounds per pound.

The risk in reloading will never be zero, and the same could be said for new ammo as well, it's all about quality control.

BigMuddy · Jan 2, 2021

I worked up a load for .357 using 180gr lead “pug nose” Missouri Bullets and Titegroup that works really well. I was searching for a load for ranch use that wouldn’t split my ear drums if I had to take a shot without hearing protection. No where near max velocity but suitable for pest elimination.

With that said I rarely carry .357’s.

Dan

Nevada Ed · Jan 2, 2021

iouri said:
Wouldn’t be my 1st 2nd or even third choice for tall mag case. It’s too dense, too fast powder. I don’t think you’d be able to identify double charge visually in that case.

Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk

Most double charges come from a loading system that had a interruption, hitch in the action, a jam or something out of order, while loading.

I "Stop the Bus" when this happens and double or even tripple check all cases to make sure things are "A-ok" before continuing.

There is nothing wrong with dumping out the powder in cases and starting all over, if in doubt, for your safety.

Distractions or being interrupted by people is the #1 way to mess up.

Stay safe.

Titegroup for 357

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