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Old 01-06-2021, 12:57 AM
Racer X Racer X is offline
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Default Accuracy load data?

I have read about one of the reloading manuals having listings for accuracy loading vs velocity. Anyone know which manual lists accuracy loadings? Working on creating accurate target loads for .223, .308 and .30-'06 Need direction on which powders I should be looking for with established loadings for accuracy, and what those loads are.
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Old 01-06-2021, 01:19 AM
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I believe it is Sierra that furnishes this.
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Old 01-06-2021, 01:41 AM
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Lyman Pistol & Revolver Loading Manual has both accuracy and velocity data.
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Old 01-06-2021, 02:08 AM
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Noslerís manual always highlights the most accurate of all the loads listed for that particular bullet but this would seem to me to be really anecdotal evidence.

I mean that if I donít have precisely the components they used on that day -AND- the test rig that they had, then it doesnít seem likely that their most accurate load has much chance of also being mine.
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Old 01-06-2021, 02:12 AM
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If you want accuracy in your loads just don't load maximum loads and load target loads that you can shoot all day long.

Easier on you and your rifle, if you plan to shoot 100 rounds at each visit to the range.

I get good accuracy from fast and slow powders, it just depends on what your rifle likes in speed and bullet weights and styles.

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Old 01-06-2021, 02:45 AM
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The RCBS reloading press or the separate kit had a guide book that listed accurate loads to start with.
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Old 01-06-2021, 03:17 AM
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The above posts tell you which manuals mark "accuracy loads". They also give you a sense that those marked loads are unlikely to be the most accurate load for your rifle.

"Best" powders for the calibers you mention often vary by the bullet weight you've chosen and the source you asked.

For 223, Varget is often the choice for mid-weight bullets (eg 55gr) and some choose VV N140 for heavier bullets.

For 308 IMR4064 works well from 150gr to 200gr and is said to be the powder used in Federal Gold Medal Match ammo 168gr/175gr. Varget again works well here.

For most mid range bullets the old 30-06 standby was IMR4350; not identical but improved and a close match is H4350.

But good luck finding H4350 or Varget as they were hard to get before the shortage began and are near unobtainium now.

As for how much powder to use . . . you have to work that up for yourself, your rifle, and the other components you choose. There are many "workup" methods but they all involve shooting one or more rounds at several (or many) different charge weights looking for certain results depending on the method. Stay within the ranges mentioned in the manuals or online from the manufacturer/distributer of the powder you choose . . . until you have more experience and know more.

Wish it were simpler - or magic - but it isn't.
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Old 01-06-2021, 11:22 AM
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Each caliber seems to have it's own favorite powder, and every different firearm seems to have it's own favorite bullet weight/shape/velocity. The Lyman does give you the "Potentially Most Accurate" powder for various different bullet caliber combinations. The rest is up to you to determine. Keep in mind it may require changes in seating depth, inside flash hole de-burring, neck turning, case length trimming, primer pocket uniforming, as well as trying various different powders and a dozen or so different quantities of each powder. Isn't it fun developing the best loads for your gun!
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Old 01-06-2021, 11:30 AM
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Twoboxer said it very well above. Varget is my go-to powder for .223 and .308. One I tried it years ago, I was convinced. I see little reason to use anything else in those cartridges. Of course that doesn't stop me from trying; I'm a chronic experimenter. But, nothing has beaten Varget. The bullet itself, seating depth and charge weight are the variables to play with.
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Old 01-06-2021, 11:55 AM
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The Lyman manuals all have the * meaning "potentially most accurate load". What I have heard that means is the smallest spread on a Chronograph.
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Old 01-06-2021, 12:53 PM
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Every gun has a load that it likes best! Your gun may not shoot the load your friend loves or a book says "is the best"! You must experiment with bullet weights and powder combinations for your gun! Many things are different between manufactures in the same calibers like barrel twist, free bore, barrel length, & etc. I have a Rem 700 that would shoot a good pattern, but not a group, at 100yds with every powder I tried, from the books, until I tried IMR7828. I ended up with an acceptable group at 100yds but not much speed!
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Old 01-06-2021, 01:55 PM
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The .223 depends a LOT on what the rifle twist is in each rifle.
Some are at 1:12 and the newer ones can be a 1:9 twist, that do well with the much heavier bullets.
Knowing the barrel twist is the 1st step to finding accuracy.
Quality sights is the second step as well as a sound bedding.

The short cases will do well with powders in the 4895 burn rate speed and every powder, usually has a sweet spot, some where in the development of the loads. Just that some powders might group a little tighter than others.

My .22 55gr liked W748 with a WLR primer.

With a .30 cal. 150 to 200 gr bullets work in my rifles.
Lots of powders and speeds that will group well at 100 yards out to 500 yards.
When a lot younger, I used the 200 gr with iron sights for 1,000 yard shooting with some IMR 4350 powder.

You just need to start somewhere and see what your rifle likes, with the powders that you have on hand, or will get.

I sort of like the 4895 for the .223 to the 30 cal. target loads. Not barn burners but they can be accurate.
Have fun.
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Old 01-06-2021, 08:20 PM
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Several manuals offer most accurate load but really, all bullets & barrels are diff. It might be a good starting point but wouldnt count on any book load claiming most accurate to be that.
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Old 01-06-2021, 08:43 PM
Racer X Racer X is offline
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Thanks for all the insight. I'm looking for a good starting point, and I want to be looking in the right direction.

I'm a commercial photographer, trained old school. film, development process, chemicals, cameras, lenses, lighting, a LOT of variables and individual "quirks". I just want a fighting chance from the outset.
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Old 01-07-2021, 12:46 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Racer X View Post
Thanks for all the insight. I'm looking for a good starting point, and I want to be looking in the right direction.

I'm a commercial photographer, trained old school. film, development process, chemicals, cameras, lenses, lighting, a LOT of variables and individual "quirks". I just want a fighting chance from the outset.

In that case;

Please do your loading outside of the "Dark Room" !!

Have fun and stay safe.
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Old 01-07-2021, 01:35 AM
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Remember the three B's-Barrels, bedding and bullets.

Google "Ladder testing" and the name Creighton Audette for some ideas on developing an accurate load!
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Old 01-07-2021, 03:54 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Racer X View Post
Thanks for all the insight. I'm looking for a good starting point, and I want to be looking in the right direction. . . .
One more thought:

When I ran a new caliber and didn't know which forum or specific user(s) to trust, I looked online at powder distributer's data for the 2 or 3 most efficient powders for the bullet weight. "Most efficient" means test data (ie published load data) showed the highest MV before being limited by pressure or case capacity.

Let's see what pops up:

For 223 55gr, Hodgdon shows CFE223, Varget, and IMR 4064 as 3 of the 4 most efficient.

For 308 168gr Hodgdon shows CFE223, Varget, and IMR4064 as the top 3.

For 30-06 168gr Hodgdon shows StaBall (new), H4350, and IMR4350 as the top 3.

Absent other knowledge or advice, choosing a powder in that way almost always gives you a good chance of finding a load your rifle likes.
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Old 01-07-2021, 08:36 AM
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With powder and components being almost impossible to find I have been studying manuals and checking online for availability. I am going to be doing a lot of testing of things that would not be my first choice but for hunting accuracy I am confident I will get there. You never know what a given gun will like. If nothing else I will get in a lot of shooting.
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Old 01-07-2021, 09:05 AM
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Default Accuracy Loads

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Originally Posted by mtgianni View Post
The Lyman manuals all have the * meaning "potentially most accurate load". What I have heard that means is the smallest spread on a Chronograph.
I've learned over 50 years of reloading that low SD and ES doesn't always mean a load will shoot tight groups. This has puzzled me for a while now. I've had loads that shoot "bughole" yet the SD/ES was nothing to brag about.
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Old 01-07-2021, 11:41 AM
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Quote:
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I've learned over 50 years of reloading that low SD and ES doesn't always mean a load will shoot tight groups. This has puzzled me for a while now. I've had loads that shoot "bughole" yet the SD/ES was nothing to brag about.
Good point, I've observed the same thing. There are a lot of variables to mess with. Depending on the average velocity, ballistic coefficient and target distance it may be that velocity variations don't matter much in group size. A high velocity, flat shooter at 100 yds is less affected than a slower bullet at 500 yds. Sometimes velocity extreme spread and standard deviation matter; sometimes they don't.

To give an extreme case, I shoot long range silhouette. Targets are up to 200 m distance shot with a 22LR. You're "lobbing" bullets out there. Velocity variations make a huge difference and show up as vertical stringing. A way to evaluate this is plugging numbers into an exterior ballistics program.
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Old 01-07-2021, 12:23 PM
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I have used IMR-4895 in all three calibers mentioned with outstanding success.....might work for you as well.

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Old 01-07-2021, 12:58 PM
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I had a multi-year effort to find the "best load" for a 45-90 Sharps and learned not to rely on other peoples or company's data. It is a combination of style of gun (semi - bolt - pump - single shot), barrel length, powder brand, powder weghts, bullet design, bullet hardness, bullet diameter, sorting out best velocities for the gun's rifling turn rate, shooting distance, etc., etc., etc.

Way to many variables to just grab someone else's data. I can be sure that no listing contains even half the background information needed as listed above. It can be a long journey to accuracy for almost every gun a person owns and often ends in the shooter deciding a particular load is just OK.

I went through at least 6 different powders and countless powder weights, many different bullet designs and weights, several lead bullet hardness readings, and finally can reliably shoot out to 400 yards, consistently hitting a 12" steel plate with simple peep sight. I am certain that my best load is found nowhere in published data sets. Now on to 600!!
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Old 01-07-2021, 02:26 PM
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Thumbs up Those "Old School" types among us..

Quote:
Originally Posted by Racer X View Post
Thanks for all the insight. I'm looking for a good starting point, and I want to be looking in the right direction.

I'm a commercial photographer, trained old school. film, development process, chemicals, cameras, lenses, lighting, a LOT of variables and individual "quirks". I just want a fighting chance from the outset.
...may confirm that, unless you are constantly and consistantly shooting from a stable rest there will be more relevant variables than the "most accurate" powder choice: I would opine that the guy, or the gun and/or the bullet itself can make a bigger difference as far as the concept of "accuracy" is concerned... And NOT NECESSARILLY in that order, either.

Truly, the only way to find out for sure is to experiment: this may prove to be a lot harder in the future than in the recent past.

Your old school training and experience in photography (as opposed to image manipulation?) should serve you well!

Cheers and Good Luck!
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