Seems that Hodgdon is the first to cave in and try to sneak one by on the consumers. I was lucky last week and found a place with a pretty fair selection of powders. Regular retail prices in the $26-29 range. I picked up some Varget, 700X, and Clay's. It has been awhile since I have been buying powder---most of mine is still in either metal or cardboard canisters. It was not until I went to put these new ones away in the cabinet that I noticed the change. I have bought a few of the Trailboss and most of us know that this comes in a 9oz bottle, and we realize why. Well both the Clays and the 700X are now in 14oz bottles. Yep, same size, same label, same shelf placement, same price, but now 2 ounces less than we have been buying. Maybe this is their way of spreading it around and getting more bottles out to the retailers. I personally find it sneaky and a huge break in tradition. Smokeless powders have been sold in 1lb containers since they were introduced. Now they go and pull a fast one following in the steps of every other product on the retail shelves. Why can't they just raise the prices and let us continue to pay the price and know what we are buying. They save nothing on packaging costs, machine time is increased, labor is probably increased, and all we get is less product taking up the same space in the cabinet.
If any of you marketing geniuses at Hodgdon happen to read this----I think it STINKS.

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"Tastes just like chicken"

You had me wondering. I just purchased half a dozen bottles of Win 6.5, and a bottle of W231. I checked, and both are in 16 oz bottles. I believe the W6.5 is made for Winchester by Hodgdon.

The reduced content scheme has been common in packaged food for years...

Larry

Seems to be standard practice now to reduce the amount of the product in the package but keep the price the same. Ever notice how bacon typically comes in a 12oz package now instead of 16oz? You are still getting charged the same price you used to pay for 16oz but now you're only getting 12oz.

Nothing new in my experience. Those 14oz. bottles of 700-X have been around for a long, long time... Probably the 2nd powder I ever bought way back when, it was also priced about $3 per "container" less. Bought a 8 lb. jug the 1st time I saw one available. Still have quite a bit from then.

Didn't think about the actual "why?" at the time: I did appreciate that it was pretty versatile for the pistol calibers I was loading and typically called for significantly less powder in many cases.

A lot like Bullseye, perhaps?

Cheers!

I don't think the 14 oz/700X is a recent thing. I bought several bottles around the last powder shortage and they were all 14 oz bottles. I thought it was odd at that time, but I got it at a steller price, so I didn't complain :-)

....they were a handful. Now they are all 'bite size'.

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"He was kinda funny lookin'"

Just like the 3-pint containers of ice cream packaged to look like a half-gallon.
The cost for the packaging is the same, you just get less product, so the actual percentage of the overall cost that is wasted on packaging is INCREASED.

In this era of "reduce, recycle, reuse" this is the exact opposite. MORE wasteful packaging to be disposed of for the amount of product actually sold.

How do they get away with this GARBAGE (literally, since that is what the empty packaging becomes - garbage)

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Send lawyers, guns & money...

Yep.Pretty sneaky, caveat emptor.

Marketing 101. Consumers are stupid and will eventually accept anything.

Except a Ford Edsel.

Why not compose and send an old fashioned letter with your signature to Hodgdon, et. al.? They will take note and sales decline they might do something. This marketing practice is decades old. Kind of a different issue, but would you buy a package of 75 primers at 2019 prices? I would in a heartbeat.

Not me, because I bought my lifetime supply of primers in the 80's.

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"Tastes just like chicken"

I just got some H110 delivered yesterday and they are 16oz. I did pay $30.00 a pound for it shipped though.

Ive been using Clays to load 12 gauge for 2 full years now and the small bottles I bought 2 years ago to try out the powder are still being used for my benchtop bottles. Because trying to feed the charge bottle on my Sizemaster with an 8 lbs. bottle is just a bit too unwieldy for me.

Point is you are used to a capacity that was in use back when the powder came in a can or a cardboard container. So, this is NOT a recent change, it's just the way it's been sold for the past 10 years or so. I will also note that the price on an 8 lbs. bottle from my club has not changed in the past 2 years. However I expect that we will see rising prices sometime in 2021. Fact is that it now costs more to hire employees today and that isn't going to change.

I think clays has been sold in 14oz bottles since it's introduction.
No marketing geniuses just more volume.
A search showed this isn't the first time people thought something was up.

From 2013 Universal Clays OR just Clays ????? | 1911Forum

2012 Hodgdon powder 14oz? *** | Sniper's Hide Forum

Well, how many 2lb. coffee cans do you see, let alone 1lb or 3lb cans? During high prices several years ago, the coffee industry started putting less in the cans. Sugar, same thing. 4lb. bags instead of 5lb. Buyer beware! Also, Yuban used to advertise 100% Columbian coffee. Now it is just coffee. I now buy coffee from Cosco, Columbian.

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Kevin in Oregon

Hasnt Clays always been 14oz?? If so, then nothing changed there.

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NRA Cert. Inst. IDPA CSO

Any Clays i`ve ever bought since it came out has always been 14oz.

Start looking for 700ml bottles of liquor. They are coming to a package store near you.

True the prices are higher, but the weight per bottle hasn’t changed. 4, 5 and 8 pounders notwithstanding, 1 pounders all still 16 ounces, except Trail Boss and 700X which are still less than a pound.

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213th FBINA

Gotta pay attention to labels. Kingsford's old 20 lb bag of charcoal now varies between 15.5 and 16.5. Those 20 lb LP cylinder exchange cages are filled to 15.5 lbs. Coffee was where I first noticed it, when a 3 lb can made its way down to 29.3 ounces. Only thing I can recall that ever got better was when Budweiser added a ounce to their 2x4's, and they're 25 ounces now . . .

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Wisdom comes thru fear . . .

Yea, the amount hasn't changed on these powders. I'm pretty sure they've been that way from the start.

Besides, these powder marketers know we'll buy it!

A $15 lb of Universal is now $25+ and I'm still using it.

25 years ago when I started using Accurate brand powders they were priced well below the competition, not any more. I still use #5, #7, 2520, and their 4064.

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GOA
USA Shooting Supporter

You guys and gals need to remember that the CEO's of these consumer companies have needs too.... It's only thru our contributions that they can keep up with rising prices. The cost of maintaining a yacht + fuel + insurance+ docking and winter storage.....And let's not forget the cost for annual maintenance on the family jet... + wash and wax once a year (used to be twice a year). It's up to US to help them thru these tough times.
IMHO of course,
J

Have you noticed a bag of white granulated sugar.
Used to be they came in 5 pound bags ..... then , overnight they all changed to 4 pound bags ... with no reduction in price ...
I bet no one , except us guys who cook and make "Shine" even noticed the old switcherroo !
And there was no sugar shortage just a greedy move ...
Keep you eye out for it ...the old give em less for more money is the new way to increase profits without having to do diddly squat.

what used to be 16 ounce cans are now 15 ounce cans...less for more ...the consumers are stupid .

We are smart and need our big payday's... lets take advantage of the dumb consumer .
Gary

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Certified Cajun
NRA Member

I agree with the OP...it’s a truth in advertising thing

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“Look life in its iron face”

I thought it was great when 700X went from 8 oz to 14 oz bottles.

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Front sight and squeeze

Just like Federal. Putting 20 shells in a shotshell box instead of the normal 25. And the way they pkg their bulk 22's. Makes you think you're getting a deal till you look at the quanity...............Check BACON......14 oz instead of a pound. All a big con.......

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S&W Accumulator

You are too cynical. It does cost money to produce products & no one does it for free, every business is in it to make money. Costs go up, raw matl, labor, govt regs, it isnt done for free.
I can remeber gas at 25c per hal, hamburger/coke/fries for under $1. You want so ething you cant make, you are pretty much at the manf mercy. One reason I started reloading 45y ago, I dont really care about the ammo supply. Though it is making components scarce, that is taken care of with proper planning.

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NRA Cert. Inst. IDPA CSO

Just normal business in America. Nobody is trying to "pull a fast one" on anybody and this has been happening for many, many years (not every manufacturer is out to screw their customers). Everything gets more expensive to produce, and not just the raw materials. I suppose if a manufacturer needed to be completely honest they might get smaller containers, but that would increase the costs quite a bit (designing and purchasing new containers), so they save by putting a little less in their stock container to keep their costs down and the containers are labeled with the new weight so there isn't a scam. Not "hiding" anything either. Anyone think about how much trouble it would be to change a price on a product? Besides the cost of printing new catalogs/price lists there would be quite a bit of "people time" involved in the actual price change and notifying all the distributors, dealers and vendors (employee time = $$$) . Many times to continue in business a manufacturer needs to use these cost cutting measures.

Ever wonder why you get shipments in way oversize boxes? The manufacturer/vendor isn't stupid, but is is a cost cutting measure. Instead of buying 6 different boxes to fit a variety of items, they buy one that works/fits all the products they pack and saves on $$$ and inventory storage...

100% Too many people just have no business experience. The great thing is most things we buy are options, not necessities. We can say no & move on if we think we are getting screwed.

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NRA Cert. Inst. IDPA CSO

Then why not just sell the same amount at a higher price? It costs money to change from 16 oz to 14 oz.

Not a conspiracy. They have a specification for how much air to leave in a can to prevent spillage when pouring. They don't want to go to the expense of having a different container for just one or two powders. They pack what they can in their standard container.

If you have two cans from the same lot take one and fill the other one up. Now try to pour the full one. 700-X has been that way since Hodgdon got it.

There was in fact a sugar shortage in the 70s, demand far outstripped supply for many reasons and prices skyrocketed. Sound familiar? It was so bad that restaurants removed the little sugar packets from tables, you had to ask for them. I think the change to the 4 pound was to prevent “sticker shock” when housewives went to the store. Everyone new they were getting less because the bags were obviously smaller.

Because most consumers will look for a cheaper alternative . . .

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Wisdom comes thru fear . . .

Where is Ralph Nader when we need him?

Why not call ‘em up and ask? I bet it’s a question they rarely hear. Could be telling by the answer they give, or don’t give.

A manufacturer, just doesn't start charging more for their product (and adjusting a machine to drop 14 oz. rather than 16 oz probably takes one person 10 minutes). Besides the accounting department having to adjust all their costs/prices, etc, (people time = $$$), all the distributors, dealers, and vendors would have to be notified (people time - $$$). New price lists would have to be produced, printed and sent out, or digitally assembled and sent out (people time=$$$). Then they would have to listen to all the paranoid reloaders scream about the manufacturer trying to screw them...

Can size is the same. Does anyone have a picture of a 16 oz bottle of Hi-scor 700X? I don't recall seeing one.

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Front sight and squeeze

Most people don’t recognize it as such, but this dynamic is simply another example of inflation. In the consumer packaged goods industries, they tend to shrink package/content along with increasing prices. It’s inflation; you’re getting less for the same price, or higher price.

The government is printing money at a record pace, our National debt keeps climbing (I believe it’s tripled in the last 4 years alone...), this devalues our currency. There are consequences to printing money and driving up debt, nothing is “free.” We the consumers, and taxpayers, will pay for these Covid “stimulus” checks to everyone (not me), and Covid “stimulus” bailouts to companies and organizations. It’s only going to get worse. Inflation is really just a tax on all consumers, not many understand it as such, but it’s true.

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NRA Life Member

Agreed. There's a reason Clays has always come in a 14 oz. can. Perhaps the OP can post a picture of his 16 oz. can of Clays or correct this thread.

Jag22, it was 1974, remember it well. I worked in the agricultural end of the beet sugar business. Prices climbed high. I think it was the reason the soda pop business finally switched over to high fructose corn sugar in their drinks. The good ole' days.

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Kevin in Oregon

just checked-an 8 pound keg, is still 8 pounds.

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The American dream is alive

This is the number one thing I say all the time. The price may be hidden, but it's there.

Nothing is free.

Any time someone tells you something is free they are hoping to take advantage of your ignorance.

As pdx furniture-store icon, Tom Peterson used to say... "Free is a Very Good Price!"

P.S. He also used to give FREE! haircuts for kids in his store on Saturday: his was a crew cut, BTW! Remember Butch Wax from the '50's?

If I had the company, I would use the 16 oz. jar and just put in 14 oz. of powder..............

The cereal companies have been doing this for years and not have to come up with the cost of reshaping the box and machinery to do costly changes.

Just one little number to change in the label programing, is all that is needed , to be legal and keep the presses rolling.

Does Sierra still put 101 bullets in their rifle boxes?

Later.

I remember when a 5 cent Snicker was big enough to share.

The cereal companies added "some settling may occur" so you aren't too shocked to see the box only half full.

When it come to ice cream, weight is the only true measure. They can churn the hell out of 2 quarts of liquid ice cream base, and make 4 liters by volume, called overchurning. Packs it full of air. Buy a gallon tub of the cheap stuff and let it melt. See how little liquid there is........

They have a very loose definition of "some" That's why we buy the bagged house brand. No way to fool around with that.

Except for Cap'n Crunch. Must be the real stuff.

Same thing was done to sugar and coffee , used to be one pound now 14 oz but the price remained the same