Smith & Wesson Forum

Go Back   Smith & Wesson Forum > Ammunition-Gunsmithing > Reloading
o

Notices

Reloading All Reloading Topics Go Here


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 01-15-2021, 06:51 PM
1sailor 1sailor is offline
Member
Rate of twist vs bullet weight & velocity Rate of twist vs bullet weight & velocity Rate of twist vs bullet weight & velocity Rate of twist vs bullet weight & velocity Rate of twist vs bullet weight & velocity  
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: South Oregon Coast
Posts: 1,820
Likes: 89
Liked 1,648 Times in 584 Posts
Default Rate of twist vs bullet weight & velocity

I have wanted a .22 Hornet for a long time but for some reason anything chambered in Hornet is either a rifle I'm not at all interested in or it's beautiful but expensive. I've decided that it might make sense to go with .223 and just load it down to Hornet velocities. My max range would be about 150 to 200 yards at most with the majority of my shots being under 100 yards. More concerned with poking holes in paper than varmints. My concern is that the rate of twist for a .223 may be all wrong for a Hornet load. Most of the Hornets I've looked at had a twist rate between 1:14 to 1:16 while the 223's were much faster with around 1:8 to 1:9. Is this an issue I'm making up in my head or might it be a real concern for me. Any info would be appreciated before I plunk down any cash. Thanks
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 01-15-2021, 07:44 PM
kenjen kenjen is offline
Member
Rate of twist vs bullet weight & velocity Rate of twist vs bullet weight & velocity Rate of twist vs bullet weight & velocity Rate of twist vs bullet weight & velocity Rate of twist vs bullet weight & velocity  
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: pa.
Posts: 677
Likes: 225
Liked 611 Times in 226 Posts
Default

I have t/c contender in 223 and it has a 1:14 twist and shoots the 40gr. bullet a lot better than the 55gr. and up
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 01-15-2021, 08:10 PM
dave1918a2's Avatar
dave1918a2 dave1918a2 is offline
US Veteran
Rate of twist vs bullet weight & velocity Rate of twist vs bullet weight & velocity Rate of twist vs bullet weight & velocity Rate of twist vs bullet weight & velocity Rate of twist vs bullet weight & velocity  
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Black Hills of SD
Posts: 2,757
Likes: 2,151
Liked 4,167 Times in 1,778 Posts
Default

Have You looked at the CZ's in hornet? Good looking and accurate.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #4  
Old 01-15-2021, 08:14 PM
Cdog's Avatar
Cdog Cdog is offline
Member
Rate of twist vs bullet weight & velocity Rate of twist vs bullet weight & velocity Rate of twist vs bullet weight & velocity Rate of twist vs bullet weight & velocity Rate of twist vs bullet weight & velocity  
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Former State Of GA.
Posts: 1,976
Likes: 3,983
Liked 2,869 Times in 990 Posts
Default

It’s the length more than weight that determines optimum twist. I haven’t looked in a while but turnbolt rifles with 1/12” were common not too far back.

You should be able to load with H4895 down to lower velocities.

Spin drift at lower velocities inside 200 yds should be negligible.

Hypothecating because I haven’t tried it with short light bullets, faster, twist, and low velocities.
__________________
GOA
USA Shooting Supporter

Last edited by Cdog; 01-15-2021 at 08:15 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 01-15-2021, 08:19 PM
m75rlg's Avatar
m75rlg m75rlg is offline
US Veteran
Rate of twist vs bullet weight & velocity Rate of twist vs bullet weight & velocity Rate of twist vs bullet weight & velocity Rate of twist vs bullet weight & velocity Rate of twist vs bullet weight & velocity  
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Center of North Carolina
Posts: 473
Likes: 366
Liked 542 Times in 159 Posts
Default

I have used the following:

150 divided by the length of the bullet in calibers = rate of twist in calibers.

multiple by caliber = rate of twist in inches.

This formula was developed by Sir Alfred Greenhill circa 1879.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #6  
Old 01-15-2021, 08:57 PM
H Richard's Avatar
H Richard H Richard is offline
US Veteran
Rate of twist vs bullet weight & velocity Rate of twist vs bullet weight & velocity Rate of twist vs bullet weight & velocity Rate of twist vs bullet weight & velocity Rate of twist vs bullet weight & velocity  
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: West Central IL
Posts: 22,758
Likes: 18,437
Liked 22,313 Times in 8,245 Posts
Default

An alternative is the .222 Remington. Most with a 1 in 12, and a 52 gr bullet is deadly in it. .222 was the bench-rest king for many years, so it is no slouch in accuracy. I have a Sako sporter, and it takes Prairie dogs out to 200 yards +. Light easy to pack, smooth as silk. 4198 was made for it.
__________________
H Richard
SWCA1967 SWHF244
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #7  
Old 01-15-2021, 10:19 PM
Ivan the Butcher Ivan the Butcher is offline
Member
Rate of twist vs bullet weight & velocity Rate of twist vs bullet weight & velocity Rate of twist vs bullet weight & velocity Rate of twist vs bullet weight & velocity Rate of twist vs bullet weight & velocity  
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: Harlem, Ohio
Posts: 14,354
Likes: 23,195
Liked 26,158 Times in 9,069 Posts
Default

I am a 22 Hornet fan! If you plan on any cartridge shooting 35 A-Max to 50 grain boat-tip bullets you need a 1:12 or slower twist. Hornet brass of best Quality is hard to get in the best of times. I found Nosler 22 Hornet brass at Midway about 3 years ago. Their "Ready to load" quality, is all within .001 in OAL and the primer pockets are trued, and the flash holes are uniformed and deburred. They are sold in 100 count boxes that all weigh within .1 grain or better (my last batch were within .05 grain)

I also bought a 250 count bag or "Need Prepared" quality. After I did the prep work they were ALL within .1 grain.

I also use their (Nosler) 221 Fireball brass, it is so much better than any Remington brass I came across. It was the Ready to load quality (and 2 boxes of Nosler loaded Ammo.

I believe both of these brasses were Midway exclusive products.

Both the Hornet and the Fireball have exceeded my dreams in 10" Contenders and my 24" rifle (1958 Savage 340). The rifle gets 1/4" groups at 100 yards, using Hornady 35 grain Hornet bullet at 3100 fps, at 3150 the group is 1" and at 3200 it is 2". (Using Accurate 1680)

If you want to shoot 55 gr FMJ/BT military bullets you will need a 1:10 barrel. With the Hornady FMJ, don't expect better than 1 to 1.5 inch groups or worse at Hornet velocities (2200 fps in a rifle)!

A number of people I know tried Little Gun in Hornet, 218 Bee and 221 Fireball, and all had cases rupture well below max load. The time proven powder for 45 semi spitzer bullets, has been IMR 4227 since Wheelan Townsend converted 22 WCF to the smokeless 22 Hornet. Lighter bullets seem to preform best wit A 1680 or 4227 (some people like 2400, but I got better performance/accuracy with 4227!)

Lastly, one of my friends has a Super 14" Contender in 22 Hornet. He swears he gets the tiniest groups with his pistol, and he dose! But he sacrificed velocity for that accuracy! He is shooting about 1300fps. My 22 RF Super 14 does that with R100 RWA ammo and I don't spend the time loading!

Ivan
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 01-15-2021, 10:44 PM
LoboGunLeather's Avatar
LoboGunLeather LoboGunLeather is offline
US Veteran
Rate of twist vs bullet weight & velocity Rate of twist vs bullet weight & velocity Rate of twist vs bullet weight & velocity Rate of twist vs bullet weight & velocity Rate of twist vs bullet weight & velocity  
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: Colorado
Posts: 7,518
Likes: 19,273
Liked 32,340 Times in 5,474 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by dave1918a2 View Post
Have You looked at the CZ's in hornet? Good looking and accurate.
I will second this advice. CZ offers a superior quality rifle at a very reasonable price point.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 01-15-2021, 10:58 PM
1sailor 1sailor is offline
Member
Rate of twist vs bullet weight & velocity Rate of twist vs bullet weight & velocity Rate of twist vs bullet weight & velocity Rate of twist vs bullet weight & velocity Rate of twist vs bullet weight & velocity  
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: South Oregon Coast
Posts: 1,820
Likes: 89
Liked 1,648 Times in 584 Posts
Default

I do like the CZ's and the 527's are on my list. I currently own a CZ 22. They don't seem to allow much bolt clearance when installing a scope though and I don't recall there being a lot of options for mounts. I'm at an age where considering a scope has become more important to me.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 01-16-2021, 12:04 AM
fredj338's Avatar
fredj338 fredj338 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Kalif. usa
Posts: 6,836
Likes: 2,665
Liked 3,927 Times in 2,366 Posts
Default

You cant really over stabilize a bullet so a faster twist will help with reduced loads imo.
__________________
NRA Cert. Inst. IDPA CSO
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 01-16-2021, 12:06 AM
Nevada Ed's Avatar
Nevada Ed Nevada Ed is offline
US Veteran
Rate of twist vs bullet weight & velocity Rate of twist vs bullet weight & velocity Rate of twist vs bullet weight & velocity Rate of twist vs bullet weight & velocity Rate of twist vs bullet weight & velocity  
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Reno Nv
Posts: 13,376
Likes: 3,183
Liked 12,712 Times in 5,669 Posts
Default

The 223 is a very good round that comes in many bullet weights, and no mater what your barrel twist..............

It can be "Down loaded" to Hornet speeds with the right powder or using heavier bullets.
No need to go out and buy a new rifle, just to down load to the smaller caliber loading.
That just does not make any sense..... unless you have lots of money and room in the safe.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #12  
Old 01-16-2021, 01:06 AM
1sailor 1sailor is offline
Member
Rate of twist vs bullet weight & velocity Rate of twist vs bullet weight & velocity Rate of twist vs bullet weight & velocity Rate of twist vs bullet weight & velocity Rate of twist vs bullet weight & velocity  
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: South Oregon Coast
Posts: 1,820
Likes: 89
Liked 1,648 Times in 584 Posts
Default

You misread my post. I do not own a Hornet or anything in 223. Merely seeking some info to help steer me in the right direction. And no, I don't have lots of money.
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 01-16-2021, 02:36 PM
fredj338's Avatar
fredj338 fredj338 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Kalif. usa
Posts: 6,836
Likes: 2,665
Liked 3,927 Times in 2,366 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 1sailor View Post
You misread my post. I do not own a Hornet or anything in 223. Merely seeking some info to help steer me in the right direction. And no, I don't have lots of money.
If you want something reloadable that is efficient & more than a 22mag, the hornet makes sense. A 223 downloaded will do the same thing with cheaoer brass but not as efficiently, you use more powder. You could even use pistol powders & get down to 22lr vel with 40-45gr bullets.
__________________
NRA Cert. Inst. IDPA CSO

Last edited by fredj338; 01-16-2021 at 02:37 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 01-16-2021, 03:00 PM
Nevada Ed's Avatar
Nevada Ed Nevada Ed is offline
US Veteran
Rate of twist vs bullet weight & velocity Rate of twist vs bullet weight & velocity Rate of twist vs bullet weight & velocity Rate of twist vs bullet weight & velocity Rate of twist vs bullet weight & velocity  
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Reno Nv
Posts: 13,376
Likes: 3,183
Liked 12,712 Times in 5,669 Posts
Default

+1 on the .223 .

Be it pistol or rifle, there is a lot of loading data, materials out there and maybe

a used rifle that might be in a rack at one of your sporting goods stores at a good price?

Good hunting.
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 01-16-2021, 03:06 PM
shocker's Avatar
shocker shocker is offline
Member
Rate of twist vs bullet weight & velocity Rate of twist vs bullet weight & velocity Rate of twist vs bullet weight & velocity Rate of twist vs bullet weight & velocity Rate of twist vs bullet weight & velocity  
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Michigan
Posts: 1,482
Likes: 550
Liked 1,427 Times in 666 Posts
Default

On a budget, I'd go 223. According to my Speer #14 manual, a starting charge of most powders with a 40 or 45 gr bullet gives equivalent velocities to a Hornet.
It does warn about pushing thin jacketed varmint bullets too fast in 1 in 7 barrels. They recommend a limit of 2800 fps for such. I'd look at something like a Savage Axis with 1 in 9 twist. I know it's a cheap gun with synthetic stock but the paper won't know the difference.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 01-16-2021, 04:53 PM
mtgianni mtgianni is offline
Member
Rate of twist vs bullet weight & velocity Rate of twist vs bullet weight & velocity Rate of twist vs bullet weight & velocity Rate of twist vs bullet weight & velocity Rate of twist vs bullet weight & velocity  
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: SW MT
Posts: 6,690
Likes: 10,392
Liked 5,972 Times in 2,942 Posts
Default

The rate of twist will not affect slowing down the bullet to hornet speeds. Get a 223, set it up with 50-55 gr bullets. Any twist from 1 in 12 to 1 in 7 should stabilize those weights. Starting loads should be very close to Hornet loads. If not set it up by the highest acceptable accuracy with the noise level you like most.
__________________
Front sight and squeeze
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 01-16-2021, 07:33 PM
1sailor 1sailor is offline
Member
Rate of twist vs bullet weight & velocity Rate of twist vs bullet weight & velocity Rate of twist vs bullet weight & velocity Rate of twist vs bullet weight & velocity Rate of twist vs bullet weight & velocity  
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: South Oregon Coast
Posts: 1,820
Likes: 89
Liked 1,648 Times in 584 Posts
Default

So if I'm understanding this correctly, the faster rate of twist on the .223 will not adversely effect the accuracy of bullets loaded to Hornet speeds. That was my only real concern here. With the huge difference in twist rates I wondered if it would cause an accuracy issue with the slower bullets fired from a .223.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 01-17-2021, 03:57 PM
mtgianni mtgianni is offline
Member
Rate of twist vs bullet weight & velocity Rate of twist vs bullet weight & velocity Rate of twist vs bullet weight & velocity Rate of twist vs bullet weight & velocity Rate of twist vs bullet weight & velocity  
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: SW MT
Posts: 6,690
Likes: 10,392
Liked 5,972 Times in 2,942 Posts
Default

Pick a powder with the start loads approaching hornet loads and you will do fine.
__________________
Front sight and squeeze
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
What is ideal weight bullet for 223 with 1:12 twist? Rule3 Reloading 32 02-13-2017 02:23 PM
Help with rate of twist Aussie Bruce S&W Revolvers: 1961 to 1980 2 03-05-2014 10:48 AM
.223 pressures, twist, bullet weight Dmaxboy08 Reloading 16 03-15-2013 10:14 AM
Barrel twist vs. bullet weight badguybuster Ammo 6 05-05-2011 08:09 AM
m 52 bbl twist rate kman68 Smith & Wesson Semi-Auto Pistols 3 04-02-2009 11:26 AM

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
smith-wessonforum.com tested by Norton Internet Security smith-wessonforum.com tested by McAfee Internet Security

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 09:42 PM.


Smith-WessonForum.com is not affiliated with Smith & Wesson Holding Corporation (NASDAQ Global Select: SWHC)