Given the current difficulty in obtaining ammo in my region of the world, I have fallen back on reloading for my rifles. Is "hard cast" lead a viable option for calibers 30-06, .243, 25-06 with excess speeds of 2500 to 3300 fps? My guess is they are not. I don't expect MOA accuracy but I don't want to lead up my very expensive hunting rifles. I have been loading cast bullets for awhile for my Winchester 1894s and '92s in calibers 30-30, 32WS, 25-20, and 25-35 and they have performed well at speeds of 1200-1500fps without much of a problem. Your ideas are appreciated.
Hard Cast Bullets for Bolt Action Rifles
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IMO you've answered your own question relating to the speed desired. I'd say it's a non-starter at those speeds.
SuperMan
Member
..one question...how many bullets do you need for your hunting rifles... I only "hunt" with my hunting rifles...they aren't shooters. Once the load is developed, the gun is sighted in and the drops determined the only time they get shot is just before they are going to be hunted with to check zero...but that's just me...
I have other rifles that are "shooters"....
As to cast bullets in centerfire rifles, one can with care get into the low 2000s with a good gaschecked bullet. My .358 Winchester runs 1900 fps with no leading at all...
You may want to go over to the CastBoolit.com forums...lots of REAL knowledgeable casters over there...
bob
I have other rifles that are "shooters"....
As to cast bullets in centerfire rifles, one can with care get into the low 2000s with a good gaschecked bullet. My .358 Winchester runs 1900 fps with no leading at all...
You may want to go over to the CastBoolit.com forums...lots of REAL knowledgeable casters over there...
bob
Ivan the Butcher
Member
I have run 218 Bee and 22 Hornet to 2400 with gas checked bullets, and a single shot 30-30 at 2500 with gas checks also. I never needed cast for my 308's but I imagine that would be fine with a 180 gas checked bullet at 2400.
I don't think the Lead bullet is the problem! I think the rifling design isn't the most compatible for that longer lead bullet. And don't forget lube!
Copper build up in the rifling with lead bullets has always been a problem at handgun velocities, it can only be worse at rifle velocities! So clean it down to the steel before trying or you are just wasting ammo!
Ivan
I don't think the Lead bullet is the problem! I think the rifling design isn't the most compatible for that longer lead bullet. And don't forget lube!
Copper build up in the rifling with lead bullets has always been a problem at handgun velocities, it can only be worse at rifle velocities! So clean it down to the steel before trying or you are just wasting ammo!
Ivan
If you mean purchased bullets of + - 21 BHN no. If you have access to some bearing babbit alloys making an extremely hard bullet in the 35-40 bhn the answer is perhaps. Those uber hard alloys are hard to find and expensive and out of the realm of most of us. Yet a friend is using his 223 at over 3000 fps with those alloys. IIRC he mentioned that particular alloy which he got from a BIL after a teardown was available for $6.00 a lb with a 10,000 lb minimum.
I have had great success with cast in the 243 both with the old Lyman 83 gr and the RCBS 95 gr and 1500-2000 fps. I have also had a lot of fun with the 06 carefully pushing accuracy to around 2300 fps and at distances up to 400 yards. I am not aware of a suitable bullet for long range in the 25 calibers as I have never owned one.
I think you can have a ton of satisfaction shooting at lower speeds and accuracy. What you cannot find at those lower speeds is accuracy without sight adjustments, intermittent plinking at distances between 25 and 350 yards and more that jacketed bullets allow you to do.
IME it takes bullets you have poured from a trusted alloy, excellent lubes or quality powder coating and careful analyzing of the process as you work up your loads. If you shoot only at known ranges it is easy to make a chart and label your sight adjustments. As an example my 243 loads required 43 clicks down from my jacketed loads at 100 yards. I would then put a #1 on a piece of paper inside my turret so I knew what adjustment I had. #2 was on paper at 300 yards and J was jacketed settings. It just takes a mental adjustment of what speed you really need and why.
I have had great success with cast in the 243 both with the old Lyman 83 gr and the RCBS 95 gr and 1500-2000 fps. I have also had a lot of fun with the 06 carefully pushing accuracy to around 2300 fps and at distances up to 400 yards. I am not aware of a suitable bullet for long range in the 25 calibers as I have never owned one.
I think you can have a ton of satisfaction shooting at lower speeds and accuracy. What you cannot find at those lower speeds is accuracy without sight adjustments, intermittent plinking at distances between 25 and 350 yards and more that jacketed bullets allow you to do.
IME it takes bullets you have poured from a trusted alloy, excellent lubes or quality powder coating and careful analyzing of the process as you work up your loads. If you shoot only at known ranges it is easy to make a chart and label your sight adjustments. As an example my 243 loads required 43 clicks down from my jacketed loads at 100 yards. I would then put a #1 on a piece of paper inside my turret so I knew what adjustment I had. #2 was on paper at 300 yards and J was jacketed settings. It just takes a mental adjustment of what speed you really need and why.
max503
Member
Hard cast in an '06? Yes. Lots.
At the velocity you mentioned? Nope. Not even close. Not even with pure lino and a gas check.
At the velocity you mentioned? Nope. Not even close. Not even with pure lino and a gas check.
For excellent, real life info on every aspect of cast bullets, go here; Cast Boolits
I have used cast bullets in my 7.62x54r, 308 Win., and a few in my Garand. Most of my bullets were 150 gr, flat nose sized to fit the gun. I cast them with about 16 BHN and used a good lube and had no problems loading to around 2,000 fps...
I have used cast bullets in my 7.62x54r, 308 Win., and a few in my Garand. Most of my bullets were 150 gr, flat nose sized to fit the gun. I cast them with about 16 BHN and used a good lube and had no problems loading to around 2,000 fps...
In a lot of loading manuals, the 30-06 shooting lead bullets near full loads
average 2,200 fps.
It just depends on the rifle and powder used to see what works out best for you.
Good luck.
average 2,200 fps.
It just depends on the rifle and powder used to see what works out best for you.
Good luck.
Seek and you shall find
Home | LS Stuff from the Cast Bullet Forum (guy is in Arkansas). I bought a quart of liquid Alox and a slab of red "High Speed Carnauba Red" bullet lube identified as 2,700 + fps.
At age 58, 15 years ago, that quart was a lifetime supply for me, my son, and my grandson. I have not tried the Red lube yet, but from the Cast Bullet Forum, I believe that this person does not make false claims about his product. I would suggest hard gas checked bullets or plain base with some type of attached base wad.
About 40 years ago, I loaded 30-06 to max levels in Lyman #45 manual. Had to leave the range early because of a pouring rain. Two weeks later I remembered to check and clean the rifle. Lead was in the lands from chamber to muzzle making the barrel a 29-06. Pulled / pushed lead curls out of the barrel that were 10" long. The barrel was clean 2 hours later. NOTE: I was not using the lube below, but some species of Lyman bullet lube.
I suggest you check your barrels after every shot, not at the end of a 50 count box
! !
Home | LS Stuff from the Cast Bullet Forum (guy is in Arkansas). I bought a quart of liquid Alox and a slab of red "High Speed Carnauba Red" bullet lube identified as 2,700 + fps.
At age 58, 15 years ago, that quart was a lifetime supply for me, my son, and my grandson. I have not tried the Red lube yet, but from the Cast Bullet Forum, I believe that this person does not make false claims about his product. I would suggest hard gas checked bullets or plain base with some type of attached base wad.
About 40 years ago, I loaded 30-06 to max levels in Lyman #45 manual. Had to leave the range early because of a pouring rain. Two weeks later I remembered to check and clean the rifle. Lead was in the lands from chamber to muzzle making the barrel a 29-06. Pulled / pushed lead curls out of the barrel that were 10" long. The barrel was clean 2 hours later. NOTE: I was not using the lube below, but some species of Lyman bullet lube.
I suggest you check your barrels after every shot, not at the end of a 50 count box
! !Attachments
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Baltimoreed11754
Member
I’ve been reloading Hunters Supply 193 gr gc boolits from midway in my boltgun milsurps for a while. I use the rifles [krags and ‘03s] for my cas clubs BAM [bolt action military] matches on steel targets that are too close imo, easy to hit not dangerous [but I’m not the match designer]. I load ‘em light. We haven’t had a match in a while as one of our members is getting over neck surgery and as he’s a big time milsurp collector we’re waiting for him to get healed up so he can come out and play. A fun day at the range
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gwpercle
Member
Pull out your Lyman Cast Bullet Manual and go with the loads listed for cast bullets . There are many many variables that determine what velocities will successfully work in any given rifle .
Powder used , size and condition of the bore , lubrication used ... coated bullets might up the ante on velocity .
I'm looking at the 25-06 and with 85 gr. hardcast (linotype) and several powders , velocities of around 2350 fps seem easy ... a few loads almost hit 2400 fps.
My Winchester model 94 in 30-30 and my 30-06 O3A3 both have a accuracy sweet spot with a 170 grain cast FP GC ( COWW and Range scrap 50/50) , air cooled and shot at a velocity 1600 fps .
I could push it faster but at 1600 fps the groups are the tightest... we just shoot at paper targets now days so accuracy trumps velocity .
Gary
Powder used , size and condition of the bore , lubrication used ... coated bullets might up the ante on velocity .
I'm looking at the 25-06 and with 85 gr. hardcast (linotype) and several powders , velocities of around 2350 fps seem easy ... a few loads almost hit 2400 fps.
My Winchester model 94 in 30-30 and my 30-06 O3A3 both have a accuracy sweet spot with a 170 grain cast FP GC ( COWW and Range scrap 50/50) , air cooled and shot at a velocity 1600 fps .
I could push it faster but at 1600 fps the groups are the tightest... we just shoot at paper targets now days so accuracy trumps velocity .
Gary
Home | LS Stuff from the Cast Bullet Forum (guy is in Alaska). I bought a quart of liquid Alox and a slab of red "High Speed Carnauba Red" bullet lube identified as 2,700 + fps.
(
I think White Label lubes is still in Arkansas.
