Smith & Wesson Forum

Go Back   Smith & Wesson Forum > >

Reloading All Reloading Topics Go Here


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 02-22-2021, 02:07 PM
Mightyheb's Avatar
Mightyheb Mightyheb is offline
Member
125gr Xtreme copper plated bullets 125gr Xtreme copper plated bullets 125gr Xtreme copper plated bullets 125gr Xtreme copper plated bullets 125gr Xtreme copper plated bullets  
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Charlotte NC
Posts: 20
Likes: 23
Liked 11 Times in 8 Posts
Default 125gr Xtreme copper plated bullets

Help
Shooting a 19-5 and a 686
I just got 1500 125grain 38 Bullets from xtreme

After reading Iím a bit concerned about the issues of cracking

Has anyone loaded a copper plated 125grain 38 with alliant bullseye?

Need OAL and grains used.

Thanks in advance
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 02-22-2021, 02:17 PM
Rpg Rpg is online now
Member
125gr Xtreme copper plated bullets 125gr Xtreme copper plated bullets 125gr Xtreme copper plated bullets 125gr Xtreme copper plated bullets 125gr Xtreme copper plated bullets  
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Denver area
Posts: 4,846
Likes: 15,542
Liked 9,890 Times in 3,122 Posts
Default

The frame cracking on M19ís was associated with light weight 357 bullets driven at magnum velocities, eg. 1,400 FPS with 125 gr bullets.

Donít hot rod your loads and youíll be just fine.
Reply With Quote
The Following 8 Users Like Post:
  #3  
Old 02-22-2021, 02:17 PM
joeraf joeraf is offline
Member
125gr Xtreme copper plated bullets 125gr Xtreme copper plated bullets 125gr Xtreme copper plated bullets 125gr Xtreme copper plated bullets 125gr Xtreme copper plated bullets  
Join Date: Dec 2020
Posts: 51
Likes: 5
Liked 10 Times in 8 Posts
Default

Extreme has their own small manual and Lee has it all. Get a reloading manual and be safe!

Last edited by joeraf; 02-22-2021 at 02:26 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #4  
Old 02-22-2021, 02:35 PM
Mightyheb's Avatar
Mightyheb Mightyheb is offline
Member
125gr Xtreme copper plated bullets 125gr Xtreme copper plated bullets 125gr Xtreme copper plated bullets 125gr Xtreme copper plated bullets 125gr Xtreme copper plated bullets  
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Charlotte NC
Posts: 20
Likes: 23
Liked 11 Times in 8 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by joeraf View Post
Extreme has their own small manual and Lee has it all. Get a reloading manual and be safe!
I have looked at my books and nothing for 125grain copper plated
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 02-22-2021, 03:54 PM
toc1 toc1 is offline
Member
125gr Xtreme copper plated bullets 125gr Xtreme copper plated bullets 125gr Xtreme copper plated bullets 125gr Xtreme copper plated bullets 125gr Xtreme copper plated bullets  
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: DFW
Posts: 29
Likes: 10
Liked 16 Times in 10 Posts
Default

From a manual use 125 gr lead. Don't over crimp. Don't soup them up to much. Good luck.

Sent from my SM-G930V using Tapatalk
Reply With Quote
The Following 3 Users Like Post:
  #6  
Old 02-22-2021, 04:02 PM
joeraf joeraf is offline
Member
125gr Xtreme copper plated bullets 125gr Xtreme copper plated bullets 125gr Xtreme copper plated bullets 125gr Xtreme copper plated bullets 125gr Xtreme copper plated bullets  
Join Date: Dec 2020
Posts: 51
Likes: 5
Liked 10 Times in 8 Posts
Default

The Lee 2nd edition has all the loads for copper plated bullets. Bullseye isnít listed there for 125 gr. copper plated bullets.

Last edited by joeraf; 02-22-2021 at 04:13 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #7  
Old 02-22-2021, 04:02 PM
rockquarry rockquarry is online now
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 3,621
Likes: 4
Liked 3,877 Times in 1,887 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightyheb View Post
Help
Shooting a 19-5 and a 686
I just got 1500 125grain 38 Bullets from xtreme

After reading Iím a bit concerned about the issues of cracking

Has anyone loaded a copper plated 125grain 38 with alliant bullseye?

Need OAL and grains used.

Thanks in advance
Are you getting good accuracy with this load?
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 02-22-2021, 04:34 PM
BRL40 BRL40 is offline
Member
125gr Xtreme copper plated bullets 125gr Xtreme copper plated bullets 125gr Xtreme copper plated bullets 125gr Xtreme copper plated bullets 125gr Xtreme copper plated bullets  
Join Date: Sep 2020
Location: Tahuya WA
Posts: 237
Likes: 36
Liked 477 Times in 161 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightyheb View Post
...Has anyone loaded a copper plated 125grain 38 with alliant bullseye?
Small world.

Friend just received 500 of the same bullet from X-Treme and is going to sell me half.

I haven't reloaded .38 Special in centuries and have Bullseye and Unique but no data for lead or coated.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 02-22-2021, 04:56 PM
Sevens Sevens is offline
Member
125gr Xtreme copper plated bullets 125gr Xtreme copper plated bullets 125gr Xtreme copper plated bullets 125gr Xtreme copper plated bullets 125gr Xtreme copper plated bullets  
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Ohio
Posts: 5,581
Likes: 5,820
Liked 9,024 Times in 3,325 Posts
Default

This comes from the HEART and backed with the experience of around 100,000 rounds loaded and fired with plated bullets made mostly by Xtreme and Berry’s, but half a dozen plated bullet makers.

It also goes somewhat AGAINST what the plated bullet makers sometimes say and have said in the past.

Here it is:

Do not treat these like LEAD BULLETS. Load them like JACKETED bullets but don’t load them like jacketed bullets in .327, .357, .41 and .44 Magnum.

-WHY-

Because these suckers give far more resistance in a barrel than any cast or swaged lead bullet. If you baby a plated bullet in a revolver, you may eventually stick one in your bore.

This happens specifically in revolvers because revolvers have a flash gap where precious, much needed pressure can bleed out at the wrong time.

If it is a pistol, the bore is sealed as long as the brass obturates, and the bullet is forced to escape with even a light load.

If you load plated overly light in a revolver you will end up sticking one and that is NOWHERE you want to be.

Again, this is experience. It is far better to read it than to have to pound one out. And it’s a helluva lot worse than pounding if you fire a second one behind a stuck one.
Reply With Quote
The Following 8 Users Like Post:
  #10  
Old 02-22-2021, 05:45 PM
Sevens Sevens is offline
Member
125gr Xtreme copper plated bullets 125gr Xtreme copper plated bullets 125gr Xtreme copper plated bullets 125gr Xtreme copper plated bullets 125gr Xtreme copper plated bullets  
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Ohio
Posts: 5,581
Likes: 5,820
Liked 9,024 Times in 3,325 Posts
Default

Alliant’s online published data is annoying and poorly arranged. Even still, the MAX load for a 125gr Gold Dot in .38 Spl is 4.5gr and for the same bullet in .38 Spl+P the MAX load is 4.8gr.

Proper technique is to reduce the MAX by 10% for a starting load.

The Gold Dot bullet itself is a plated bullet.

I load 125gr plated bullets at 4.4gr Bullseye in .38 Special all day long. Last week I loaded 500 rounds of plated 125’s with 4.4gr of Bullseye. I have a COAL also, but I don’t have that number handy. If your bullets have a cannelure, load to that cannelure and give them a medium roll crimp. I think you will be happy with them.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #11  
Old 02-22-2021, 06:10 PM
joeraf joeraf is offline
Member
125gr Xtreme copper plated bullets 125gr Xtreme copper plated bullets 125gr Xtreme copper plated bullets 125gr Xtreme copper plated bullets 125gr Xtreme copper plated bullets  
Join Date: Dec 2020
Posts: 51
Likes: 5
Liked 10 Times in 8 Posts
Default

Is that why I see that the loads are larger for copper plated bullets in the manuals than ones for lead bullets? Thank you for the info.

Last edited by joeraf; 02-22-2021 at 06:37 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 02-22-2021, 06:18 PM
Mightyheb's Avatar
Mightyheb Mightyheb is offline
Member
125gr Xtreme copper plated bullets 125gr Xtreme copper plated bullets 125gr Xtreme copper plated bullets 125gr Xtreme copper plated bullets 125gr Xtreme copper plated bullets  
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Charlotte NC
Posts: 20
Likes: 23
Liked 11 Times in 8 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sevens View Post
This comes from the HEART and backed with the experience of around 100,000 rounds loaded and fired with plated bullets made mostly by Xtreme and Berryís, but half a dozen plated bullet makers.

It also goes somewhat AGAINST what the plated bullet makers sometimes say and have said in the past.

Here it is:

Do not treat these like LEAD BULLETS. Load them like JACKETED bullets but donít load them like jacketed bullets in .327, .357, .41 and .44 Magnum.

-WHY-

Because these suckers give far more resistance in a barrel than any cast or swaged lead bullet. If you baby a plated bullet in a revolver, you may eventually stick one in your bore.

This happens specifically in revolvers because revolvers have a flash gap where precious, much needed pressure can bleed out at the wrong time.

If it is a pistol, the bore is sealed as long as the brass obturates, and the bullet is forced to escape with even a light load.

If you load plated overly light in a revolver you will end up sticking one and that is NOWHERE you want to be.

Again, this is experience. It is far better to read it than to have to pound one out. And itís a helluva lot worse than pounding if you fire a second one behind a stuck one.
Great information. Thank you
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #13  
Old 02-22-2021, 06:19 PM
Mightyheb's Avatar
Mightyheb Mightyheb is offline
Member
125gr Xtreme copper plated bullets 125gr Xtreme copper plated bullets 125gr Xtreme copper plated bullets 125gr Xtreme copper plated bullets 125gr Xtreme copper plated bullets  
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Charlotte NC
Posts: 20
Likes: 23
Liked 11 Times in 8 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sevens View Post
Alliantís online published data is annoying and poorly arranged. Even still, the MAX load for a 125gr Gold Dot in .38 Spl is 4.5gr and for the same bullet in .38 Spl+P the MAX load is 4.8gr.

Proper technique is to reduce the MAX by 10% for a starting load.

The Gold Dot bullet itself is a plated bullet.

I load 125gr plated bullets at 4.4gr Bullseye in .38 Special all day long. Last week I loaded 500 rounds of plated 125ís with 4.4gr of Bullseye. I have a COAL also, but I donít have that number handy. If your bullets have a cannelure, load to that cannelure and give them a medium roll crimp. I think you will be happy with them.
Thanks seven. When you get a chance can you shoot me your oal?
I donít believe they have a cannelure
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #14  
Old 02-22-2021, 08:15 PM
madmikeb's Avatar
madmikeb madmikeb is offline
SWCA Member
125gr Xtreme copper plated bullets 125gr Xtreme copper plated bullets 125gr Xtreme copper plated bullets 125gr Xtreme copper plated bullets 125gr Xtreme copper plated bullets  
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Midcoast Maine
Posts: 1,281
Likes: 1,108
Liked 1,302 Times in 387 Posts
Default

I shoot the Xtreme 125 RNFP in matches every summer over 5.5 grains of Bullseye in .357 cases. Been doing this for 3 or 4 years and have had very good results. I don't know what the OAL is, I don't have any loaded right now. The bullets I buy have a cannelure and I lightly crimp to that.

Last edited by madmikeb; 02-22-2021 at 08:18 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #15  
Old 02-22-2021, 09:38 PM
Erocksmash's Avatar
Erocksmash Erocksmash is offline
Member
125gr Xtreme copper plated bullets 125gr Xtreme copper plated bullets 125gr Xtreme copper plated bullets 125gr Xtreme copper plated bullets 125gr Xtreme copper plated bullets  
Join Date: Mar 2017
Location: SW Florida
Posts: 1,322
Likes: 2,356
Liked 1,720 Times in 621 Posts
Default

I run full nutz 158 plated jobbers in my Coonan, and my 686 ND and my 686-6, and after retrieving some out of the berm and off steel the retain there jackets.... hope this helps... I've never had a Separation issue
__________________
This is the way....
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 02-23-2021, 12:54 AM
STORMINORMAN STORMINORMAN is online now
Member
125gr Xtreme copper plated bullets 125gr Xtreme copper plated bullets 125gr Xtreme copper plated bullets 125gr Xtreme copper plated bullets 125gr Xtreme copper plated bullets  
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: Pacific NW
Posts: 634
Likes: 338
Liked 296 Times in 187 Posts
Default

Well, they do make the 125gr FP with & without a cannelure... This is where either of the LEE FCDs can come in handy. The O/P doesn't indicate whether these are being shot from 38 Special or 357 Mag brass, either...?

But, regarding 38 Special, the Hodgdons OAL for all 33 loads they list for 38 Special (and for 16 in +P, as well) using XTPs or a LRNFP is 1.455". ALLIANT says 1.44" for a 125gr Gold Dot with 4.5gr Bullseye in both as well. Nowhere near the advertised 1200 fps for these plated Xtremes.

These are 357 Magnum revolvers. Load 'em as longer as you please (within reason).

Cheers!
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #17  
Old 02-23-2021, 01:22 AM
BC38's Avatar
BC38 BC38 is offline
Member
125gr Xtreme copper plated bullets 125gr Xtreme copper plated bullets 125gr Xtreme copper plated bullets 125gr Xtreme copper plated bullets 125gr Xtreme copper plated bullets  
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: Spokane, WA
Posts: 10,168
Likes: 654
Liked 13,506 Times in 5,296 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rpg View Post
The frame cracking on M19ís was associated with light weight 357 bullets driven at magnum velocities, eg. 1,400 FPS with 125 gr bullets.

Donít hot rod your loads and youíll be just fine.
^^What he said^^

Xtreme recommends that their standard plated bullets be kept to velocities below 1200fps - which is the lower end of 357 magnum loads. As long as you follow that advice the ammo isn't going to be the "hot" light bullet loads that crack forcing cones.

That also means you aren't going to be using a hot magnum powder that will erode the forcing cone - another cause of cracking.

You will be just fine, though you may find the difference between your POA & POI will require adjusting the sights (or your sight picture). Mild loads with light bullets will likely shoot lower than full power magnums with heavier bullets (like 158gr).

Use jacketed bullet data, start with minimum charges, and work your way up. Probably won't want to go past the mid-point between min and max to keep the velocities down.
__________________
Send lawyers, guns & money...

Last edited by BC38; 02-23-2021 at 01:30 AM.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #18  
Old 02-23-2021, 05:07 AM
BLUEDOT37's Avatar
BLUEDOT37 BLUEDOT37 is offline
Member
125gr Xtreme copper plated bullets 125gr Xtreme copper plated bullets 125gr Xtreme copper plated bullets 125gr Xtreme copper plated bullets 125gr Xtreme copper plated bullets  
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: N.E. OKLA.
Posts: 5,396
Likes: 4,694
Liked 7,005 Times in 2,706 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by BC38 View Post
You will be just fine, though you may find the difference between your POA & POI will require adjusting the sights (or your sight picture). Mild loads with light bullets will likely shoot lower than full power magnums with heavier bullets (like 158gr).
I usually have to raise my rear sight's elevation up by (10) clicks, from my normal 158gr load's setting, for 125gr loads at 15yd target.

.
__________________
Not Employee of the Month

Last edited by BLUEDOT37; 02-23-2021 at 05:08 AM. Reason: .
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #19  
Old 02-23-2021, 12:37 PM
Mightyheb's Avatar
Mightyheb Mightyheb is offline
Member
125gr Xtreme copper plated bullets 125gr Xtreme copper plated bullets 125gr Xtreme copper plated bullets 125gr Xtreme copper plated bullets 125gr Xtreme copper plated bullets  
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Charlotte NC
Posts: 20
Likes: 23
Liked 11 Times in 8 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by STORMINORMAN View Post
Well, they do make the 125gr FP with & without a cannelure... This is where either of the LEE FCDs can come in handy. The O/P doesn't indicate whether these are being shot from 38 Special or 357 Mag brass, either...?

But, regarding 38 Special, the Hodgdons OAL for all 33 loads they list for 38 Special (and for 16 in +P, as well) using XTPs or a LRNFP is 1.455". ALLIANT says 1.44" for a 125gr Gold Dot with 4.5gr Bullseye in both as well. Nowhere near the advertised 1200 fps for these plated Xtremes.

These are 357 Magnum revolvers. Load 'em as longer as you please (within reason).

Cheers!
38 special brass
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 02-23-2021, 12:54 PM
smithra_66 smithra_66 is online now
Member
125gr Xtreme copper plated bullets 125gr Xtreme copper plated bullets 125gr Xtreme copper plated bullets 125gr Xtreme copper plated bullets 125gr Xtreme copper plated bullets  
Join Date: Jan 2020
Posts: 91
Likes: 1
Liked 125 Times in 51 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightyheb View Post
Help
Shooting a 19-5 and a 686
I just got 1500 125grain 38 Bullets from xtreme

After reading Iím a bit concerned about the issues of cracking

Has anyone loaded a copper plated 125grain 38 with alliant bullseye?

Need OAL and grains used.

Thanks in advance
Plated bullets are softer than jacketed bullets. They do not behave like Jacketed bullets, but are still a bit harder than lead bullets.

Also, if you're just loading light 38 loads with Bullseye you won't have any issues.

The problems were coming from full house 125 gr JHPs loaded with magnum powder to top velocities.

Last edited by smithra_66; 02-23-2021 at 12:56 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #21  
Old 02-23-2021, 01:42 PM
Nevada Ed's Avatar
Nevada Ed Nevada Ed is offline
Member
125gr Xtreme copper plated bullets 125gr Xtreme copper plated bullets 125gr Xtreme copper plated bullets 125gr Xtreme copper plated bullets 125gr Xtreme copper plated bullets  
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Reno Nv
Posts: 9,553
Likes: 1,423
Liked 7,245 Times in 3,454 Posts
Default

In my 686 6" revolver I have used Bullseye powderin a 38 special
loading from 896 fps to a full 980 fps.

Back then there was no problem getting primers and I did find that the Federal and CCI primers did give different fps and also accuracy from the same amout of powder.

If you have a chrony and slower powders, I would cut the top end off at around 1050 fps for your best accuracy.

A Hornady XTP can be pushed about 100 fps faster but it has a heavier copper jacket for higher speeds and hunting use.

If your bullet does not have a "Can" on it, you don't need full loads
that will just cause problems with the heavy recoil, with just a taper crimp.

Last edited by Nevada Ed; 02-23-2021 at 01:48 PM.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #22  
Old 02-23-2021, 03:09 PM
gwpercle's Avatar
gwpercle gwpercle is offline
Member
125gr Xtreme copper plated bullets 125gr Xtreme copper plated bullets 125gr Xtreme copper plated bullets 125gr Xtreme copper plated bullets 125gr Xtreme copper plated bullets  
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Baton Rouge, La.
Posts: 5,345
Likes: 4,880
Liked 5,609 Times in 2,658 Posts
Default

For an accurate load with Bullseye powder and 125 gr. plated or cast
Start with 4.0 grs. and checking accuracy as you go , work up to a
Maximum or 4.5 grains (Maybe 4.6 if using 357 magnum brass)
Somewhere between those charges should be your gun's sweet spot .

My Pet accuracy load with the 125 gr. bullet (cast) is with 4.2 grs Bullseye @ 892 fps in 38 special cases .
It will give a 15 shot group , one ragged hole , 1 1/2 " in diameter !
That load is a winner in my S&W model 64 .
Gary
__________________
Certified Cajun
NRA Member
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #23  
Old 02-23-2021, 11:07 PM
shooting1 shooting1 is offline
Member
125gr Xtreme copper plated bullets 125gr Xtreme copper plated bullets 125gr Xtreme copper plated bullets 125gr Xtreme copper plated bullets 125gr Xtreme copper plated bullets  
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Maryland
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

Anyone load 95 grain lead round nose flat point for a light load for the wife&
Reply With Quote
  #24  
Old 02-24-2021, 08:09 AM
stansdds stansdds is offline
Member
125gr Xtreme copper plated bullets 125gr Xtreme copper plated bullets 125gr Xtreme copper plated bullets 125gr Xtreme copper plated bullets 125gr Xtreme copper plated bullets  
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Virginia
Posts: 4,658
Likes: 6,155
Liked 5,488 Times in 2,684 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightyheb View Post
Help
Shooting a 19-5 and a 686
I just got 1500 125grain 38 Bullets from xtreme

After reading Iím a bit concerned about the issues of cracking

Has anyone loaded a copper plated 125grain 38 with alliant bullseye?

Need OAL and grains used.

Thanks in advance

The issue with forcing cone erosion and cracking is associated with bullets of less than 140 grains being propelled by heavy charges of colloidal ball propellant. Bullseye is not a colloidal ball propellant. Hodgdon H110/Winchester W296 are colloidal ball powders.
__________________
VCDL, GOA, NRA
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #25  
Old 02-24-2021, 11:33 AM
Mightyheb's Avatar
Mightyheb Mightyheb is offline
Member
125gr Xtreme copper plated bullets 125gr Xtreme copper plated bullets 125gr Xtreme copper plated bullets 125gr Xtreme copper plated bullets 125gr Xtreme copper plated bullets  
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Charlotte NC
Posts: 20
Likes: 23
Liked 11 Times in 8 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by gwpercle View Post
For an accurate load with Bullseye powder and 125 gr. plated or cast
Start with 4.0 grs. and checking accuracy as you go , work up to a
Maximum or 4.5 grains (Maybe 4.6 if using 357 magnum brass)
Somewhere between those charges should be your gun's sweet spot .

My Pet accuracy load with the 125 gr. bullet (cast) is with 4.2 grs Bullseye @ 892 fps in 38 special cases .
It will give a 15 shot group , one ragged hole , 1 1/2 " in diameter !
That load is a winner in my S&W model 64 .
Gary
Thanks Gary. What OAL do you use?
Reply With Quote
  #26  
Old 02-24-2021, 03:39 PM
Sevens Sevens is offline
Member
125gr Xtreme copper plated bullets 125gr Xtreme copper plated bullets 125gr Xtreme copper plated bullets 125gr Xtreme copper plated bullets 125gr Xtreme copper plated bullets  
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Ohio
Posts: 5,581
Likes: 5,820
Liked 9,024 Times in 3,325 Posts
Default

Okay, I checked the recent ones that I made and I loaded them to a COAL of 1.440".

Here's a suggestion with regards to COAL. That you are seeking it specifically is a very good sign and it shows that you are aware of the relationship between COAL, internal combustion space and pressure. Good!

At the same time, this is relative. Your COAL, internal space and it's effect on pressure matters most, or perhaps I should say matters more when you are dealing with smaller combustion space and higher pressure rounds.

When we look at .38 Special specifically, we have a round with relatively l-a-r-g-e internal space and relatively low pressure (17.5kpsi) when compared to most of it's peers. Another round in the same arena is .45 Colt. Massive space, low pressure compared to hot little rounds.

On the far other end of the spectrum is the 9mm cartridge. Here we have very little combustion space in the small round and we also run very high pressure (35kpsi.)

The point here is that small changes in COAL matter more (a lot more!) in 9mm, .40 S&W, 5.7x28, 10mm, etc.

Small changes in short little rounds that are not extremely high pressure (.32 S&W Long, .380 Auto, .45 Auto) matter, but not as much as the ones listed above.

Small changes in COAL for very large combustion space rounds that also run high pressure certainly matter (.327, .357, .41, .44 Magnum) but they don't matter nearly as much as 9mm, .40cal, 10mm, 5.7x28, etc.

And small changes in COAL for low/medium pressure rounds in large combustion space rounds (.32 H&R, .38 Special, .44 Special, .45 Colt) matter of course, but you basically want to use your COAL information to help you build your ammo consistently, but not so much because of MASSIVE increases of pressure due to shortened COAL and reduced combustion space.

A simpler way to state what I mean:

If you are making MAX loads in 9mm and you reduce your COAL and change nothing else, you will be running the ragged edge in pressure and safety is a genuine concern here.

If you are making MAX loads in .38 Special or .38 Special+P and you reduce your COAL, you will not likely be seeing a notable increase in pressure and you aren't crossing serious safety lines unless your COAL reduction is massive (and ridiculous.)
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #27  
Old 02-24-2021, 03:52 PM
Sevens Sevens is offline
Member
125gr Xtreme copper plated bullets 125gr Xtreme copper plated bullets 125gr Xtreme copper plated bullets 125gr Xtreme copper plated bullets 125gr Xtreme copper plated bullets  
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Ohio
Posts: 5,581
Likes: 5,820
Liked 9,024 Times in 3,325 Posts
Default

Side discussion to the above that may be worth discussing:

When you are handloading for revolvers, the ammo is sometimes subjected to inertial forces that try to "pull" the bullets from the case. This happens when there is a combination of:

heavy recoil
light handgun
light bullet pull (cartridge case's grip on the bullet)

The affect on your ammo is that sometimes, the shooting of the first 4 or 5 or 6 rounds in your cylinder will work to pull the bullets forward in the case of the unfired rounds in the cylinder. This obviously makes your COAL l-o-n-g-e-r and thus, makes for more combustion space, which can only lower the peak pressure.

So this can be a problem if/when the bullets get pulled and tie up your revolver.

On the semiauto pistol side, recoil doesn't seem to work in the same way and bullets don't get pulled. However the natural feed cycle of a semiauto is a violent environment on ammo that gets some manner forcibly pushed/smashed in to the chamber.

And if you don't have good bullet pull (cartridge case's grip on the bullet) then you run the risk of bullets inadvertently and unknowingly getting pushed deeper in to the cartridge case during the feed cycle. And thus, shortening the COAL, lowering the internal combustion space, radically increasing the pressure.

And of course, some of our most common semiauto pistols are the 9mm, .40cal... and these are rounds where small changes and small reductions in COAL will drive the pressure up quickly.

It has long been my own theory that a high percentage of all the .40 S&W kabooms that handloaders and competition shooters experienced through the 1990's and in to the early 2000's were the result of a number of factors, but I believe that unintended and unnoticed reductions in COAL were a huge part of the "perfect storm" that reared it's ugly head back then. Even still today in 2021 you can see specific warnings in many published load data sources regarding .40 S&W because of the period of time where far too many folks blew up pistols.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #28  
Old 02-24-2021, 06:58 PM
Mightyheb's Avatar
Mightyheb Mightyheb is offline
Member
125gr Xtreme copper plated bullets 125gr Xtreme copper plated bullets 125gr Xtreme copper plated bullets 125gr Xtreme copper plated bullets 125gr Xtreme copper plated bullets  
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Charlotte NC
Posts: 20
Likes: 23
Liked 11 Times in 8 Posts
Default

Thank you Sevens. That is great information. I really love shooting the revolvers and want to learn as much as possible

Thanks again,
Craig
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #29  
Old 02-24-2021, 07:54 PM
Mightyheb's Avatar
Mightyheb Mightyheb is offline
Member
125gr Xtreme copper plated bullets 125gr Xtreme copper plated bullets 125gr Xtreme copper plated bullets 125gr Xtreme copper plated bullets 125gr Xtreme copper plated bullets  
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: Charlotte NC
Posts: 20
Likes: 23
Liked 11 Times in 8 Posts
Default

Just loaded some at 4.4 BE, 1.442 OAL

I’ll give you my report

Thanks all
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #30  
Old 02-25-2021, 01:57 PM
Nevada Ed's Avatar
Nevada Ed Nevada Ed is offline
Member
125gr Xtreme copper plated bullets 125gr Xtreme copper plated bullets 125gr Xtreme copper plated bullets 125gr Xtreme copper plated bullets 125gr Xtreme copper plated bullets  
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Reno Nv
Posts: 9,553
Likes: 1,423
Liked 7,245 Times in 3,454 Posts
Default

A note on the 38 special and the 125 plated bullets.

There are a lot of people putting these bullets out for shooters
but some have a different length.
For example, Berry 125 FN is .518" and their 125 HP is .554" long.
Not that big really but the HP will sit deeper into the case and might
have a little higher pressure with the same powder load.

I use plated bullets for target work or medium speeds, so I don't have to worry about high pressures.
When loading with fast powders like Bullseye or w231, I have dropped
the OAL down to as short as 1.40" in my target loads with the
smooth sided bullets w/o a crimp, to gain a little fps.

Check your bullets length and Ogive first, to see if this will work
with your bullets if you try this short length out.

Have fun.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #31  
Old 02-26-2021, 02:48 AM
BLUEDOT37's Avatar
BLUEDOT37 BLUEDOT37 is offline
Member
125gr Xtreme copper plated bullets 125gr Xtreme copper plated bullets 125gr Xtreme copper plated bullets 125gr Xtreme copper plated bullets 125gr Xtreme copper plated bullets  
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: N.E. OKLA.
Posts: 5,396
Likes: 4,694
Liked 7,005 Times in 2,706 Posts
Default

Good point. Most people don't take into consideration the bullet's overall length (BOAL) when interchanging different bullets but using the same powder charge.

If you're COAL" is not restricted by the cannelure's placement that's easily fixed by seating the bullet out by the corresponding difference in BOAL, as long as you don't exceed it's max. COAL", if you don't have a cannelure.

Since the OP is shooting these 38 Special in a 357 Magnum adjusting the COAL" for bullets with a longer BOAL shouldn't be a problem.

It would be nice if manufacturers listed the bullet's overal length in their load data too.

The OP didn't say exactly which 125gr Xtreme plated bullet he has.



.
__________________
Not Employee of the Month

Last edited by BLUEDOT37; 02-26-2021 at 02:53 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #32  
Old 02-26-2021, 12:03 PM
tommyhof tommyhof is offline
Member
125gr Xtreme copper plated bullets 125gr Xtreme copper plated bullets 125gr Xtreme copper plated bullets 125gr Xtreme copper plated bullets 125gr Xtreme copper plated bullets  
Join Date: Aug 2013
Location: Virginia Beach
Posts: 32
Likes: 8
Liked 19 Times in 7 Posts
Default

I load to to the 3.5 Bullseye for the wife, either 125 or 158 copper plated. In 357 for me I'll load 4.0 of promo/reddot these are target loads. For stouter 357 loads I'll do 5.0 still nice to shoot. For real 357, 2400 or bluedot. These are in Ruger GP100s
Reply With Quote
  #33  
Old 02-26-2021, 01:04 PM
Nevada Ed's Avatar
Nevada Ed Nevada Ed is offline
Member
125gr Xtreme copper plated bullets 125gr Xtreme copper plated bullets 125gr Xtreme copper plated bullets 125gr Xtreme copper plated bullets 125gr Xtreme copper plated bullets  
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Reno Nv
Posts: 9,553
Likes: 1,423
Liked 7,245 Times in 3,454 Posts
Default

For the 38 and 357 weapons it is nice to have the plated bullets that let you shoot at a lot of places where lead can't be used now, in some parts of the country.

It will also solve the problem of leading in your barrels, if you have that problem and some state that the plated 148 WC bullet can get good accuracy in their test.

I did see one Berry .358 dia, 158 gr that did have a nice cannelure on it,
which let me think of high fps, if needed, with a good crimp applied.
Reply With Quote
  #34  
Old 02-26-2021, 03:00 PM
Eddietruett Eddietruett is offline
Member
125gr Xtreme copper plated bullets 125gr Xtreme copper plated bullets 125gr Xtreme copper plated bullets 125gr Xtreme copper plated bullets 125gr Xtreme copper plated bullets  
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 1,378
Likes: 804
Liked 2,821 Times in 766 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mightyheb View Post
Help
Shooting a 19-5 and a 686
I just got 1500 125grain 38 Bullets from xtreme

After reading Iím a bit concerned about the issues of cracking

Has anyone loaded a copper plated 125grain 38 with alliant bullseye?

Need OAL and grains used.

Thanks in advance
I like 5gr universal for 125-130gr bullets. Shoot very well in most of my guns.
I have run 4.5gr Bullseye with 125-1 grain as well.
Like Universal much better
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
TRADED -- .357 125gr Xtreme Plated Bullets and Hornady XTP (158gr) - for trade rglassma Accessories/Misc - For Sale or Trade 0 11-21-2016 08:40 AM
Xtreme Bullets .45 Cal 200 gr. plated SWC exnodak Accessories/Misc - For Sale or Trade 1 07-26-2016 09:24 AM
copper plated vs not copper plated bullets normanlclark Reloading 17 07-24-2016 06:40 PM
44 Crimp and Xtreme Plated Bullets radtuck Reloading 16 06-17-2015 09:45 PM
XTreme Plated .44 Bullets Nick B Reloading 2 11-29-2013 08:08 PM

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
smith-wessonforum.com tested by Norton Internet Security smith-wessonforum.com tested by McAfee Internet Security

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 11:52 AM.


Search Engine Optimisation provided by DragonByte SEO v2.0.42 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2021 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
Smith-WessonForum.com is not affiliated with Smith & Wesson Holding Corporation (NASDAQ Global Select: SWHC)