I just got some 45 acp loading dies, I have loaded 32 S&W long and other revolver cartridges over the years, but am not an expert by any means.


I have a bottle of Alliant "Unique" powder that seems to be a good general powder.


I am using 185 grn jhp bullets.


Alliant formulas call for "not to exceed" 8.2 grns by weight, so I am going with 8 even, which just about fills the void.


I am trying to decide how for to seat the bullets and have settled on an overall length of 1.220


The factory loads I have are 230 gr round point and are 1.267


I am trying to seat them deep enough without pushing them into and compressing the powder.


Any suggestions are welcome.


Thanks

Hi, I'm not familiar with Unique powder so I'm not certain of what 8.0 will produce, but I'm wondering why start at such a high charge? I'd start closer to the suggested minimum rather than starting close to the "do not exceed" charge. I don't like big recoil anyway so I lean towards the lesser amounts rather than the higher. Just a thought. Good luck on your adventure.

You start at the start load. If given a max load, cut 10-12% to determine start load. If you check the beginning of Alliant data, you'll find this in the notes.
First, you should make up two inert dummy rounds and use them to set up dies and establish a COL that feed and chambers before you ever start loading.
You should check a couple loading manuals for data. I start at the lowest starting load. Safety first.

Hey. I only load 45acp these days. In the 20+yrs I've been reloading, I learned to let bullet profile dictate seating depth, crimp grooves, driving bands, etc...Your loaded round has to also pass the "Kerplunk" test for your gun/guns. Why so high on your powder charge? Don't worry about filling the case, those were Blackpowder rules, not smokeless powder. I'd go lower in my charge. No matter the bullet weight, I've NEVER seen more than 6.0grs of fast burning powder, loaded into 45acp cases. You're right to keep charges rounded off, whole/half increments, MUCH easier to remember! I load 4.0grs Bullseye for 200/230gr bullets, lead, or copper/jacketed. Bullseye works best in 45acp.

I only have the Unique because of shortages, it seems the loads with this powder are always higher than other powders for the same result.


I'm not sure it was a "do not exceed" number, just what was recommended for the bullet weight.


Alliant Powder: Print Recipe

Have a friend fire the first reload . . . but probably not your best friend.

Speer book says 7.3-8.2 @ 1.200 with their 185 GDHP. If you're using a different bullet you'll want to work up. Especially hollow points, they all take up different case volume.
What gun? What do you want the load to do?

Thanks, I am using Sierra 185 gr "Jacketed Hollow Cavity" bullets.


For use in either my Star M45 "Firestar" or my Star "Megastar" 45, as a defense round.


Since I am my own "best friend", I suited up, goggles, ear plugs, heavy coveralls etc and tried one, it is definitely a punchier load than the Winchester 230 gr FMJ round nose target factory loads I have, but the Firestar is in one piece and so am I.


Thanks

I loaded .45 acp for several decades. Since you asked and no one to my knowledge has touched on it....When belling / flaring your case set that die so that your projectile will just barely start in a case with finger pressure. i.e. don't over bell. Also be sure to put just the right amount of taper crimp on your loaded round. Many have best results doing that in a separate step. I would always seat and crimp in one step but doing it slowly. Finally, be sure to test that you have enough bullet to case tension to avoid setback when chambering. I'd always try to push a loaded round against the floor or wall. If they don't budge, you should be good to go. Best of luck in your new pursuit.

Yes, thanks, the bell set was too deep, I backed it off until I could just press the bullet in by hand, works well.


Isn't the taper crimp set by how far you are seating the bullet?, I do not have a separate die.


Thanks again.

Do you have a chronograph? When working defense rounds or something you want to run hot they're a must. Not very expensive either.
The inside of the die is tapered. The length is set by where the stem is, the taper by where the die body is.
I seat and crimp separately, except for revolver roll crimps. If you're using a single stage press just back the die body up to seat the bullet, and then run through again with the die body set to crimp and the seater plug backed up.

EDIT:
Found my sierra manual.
They're listing 7.7gr max unique for that bullet. I think that you're too hot based on that, but you'd need a chronograph to tell.

You want to be able to just press the bullet in like only 1/16" or less with finger pressure. Basically so it just " sticks ". If you can push them all the way in to your desired depth with finger pressure then that's WAY too much bell or you have the finger strength that Superman had.

Seating depth has nothing to do with your crimp. Your crimp level ( how much applied ) is based on how far your die is screwed down when it meets your case mouth. Not sure I worded that in English. Transamconvert did a better job explaining my meaning. You do not need a separate die though many swear by them . I loaded .45acp for 35-40 years without one.

But without a separate die, I would need to back off the seating depth and then remember how many turns it was backed off next time around, correct? Thanks

Congratulations from moving up from the small caliber to a BIG .45" bullet !!

Being a Gunny in the Navy, and having to take care of all the 45's for the MCB3 Battion, and all the rest of it's weapons, I will say that you picked out a heck of of a "War Horse" to spit out bullets for you.

Lots of data out there and just a matter of the amount of recoil you want and your needs in shooting styles.

Relax, enjoy the ride and keep on shooting.

I use Unique for my 45 ACP. But i shoot 230 Berrys or xtreme plated bullets. with 5.8grs with a coal of 1.230. I also use a Lee factory crimp die. It adds an extra step to the loading process, but I have never had a failure to feed. Also I run all my loaded ammo through an EGW chamber gauge. I have loaded Hornady XTPs 230s I had to seat the bullets a little shorter.

No. Once it's set up properly you will seat and apply your crimp in one stroke though I advise going fairly slowly.

I like your style, there is just something about the 45, the history, the sub sonic thump, it just feels right.


Thanks

I generally go balls-deep at the onset as well, particularly with the old flake powders ... they generally have a smooth, forgiving pressure curve, even if you venture off into +P territory with your seating depth. I've never run Unique, but Herco is an old favorite in the 45ACP for me.

Just overthinking it.


No matter where I set the depth, if my die and case holder meet, the taper crimp is set.


Thanks

Start your powder charges low(er): you can always add a little more powder (within reason) ... 8.0gr of Unique does seem a bit on the high side to start.

As far as OAL is concerned, you 1st want your reloads to chamber and eject: various and sundry JHPs have many different profiles and may or may not work. There is a big difference between RN and HP bullets: especially in semi-automatic pistols.

A factory 185gr HP's OAL (or similar load data for that kind of bullet) might give you a starting point. If they chamber and eject you can always work up to a higher velocity.

Again, within reason.

Cheers!

Make up a dummy round first to make sure it feeds and chambers correctly.You may find it needs to be slightly shorter and or needs a tighter crimp.You’ll also find that downloading Unique into mild target ammo range isn’t that great,a faster powder works better for that. Unique will work for full power loads though.

I've been loading 45ACP for better than 50 years and still use my Wilson Pistol Max gauge every time I change anything to make sure they will seat in the chamber. Measures your loaded round against SAAMI Max specs for the round, case length, seating depth case diameter. Spots the problems before you hit the firing line.

Stu

Unique is my go to powder for 45 acp but I would suggest you back off that charge to 6.5 or 7.0. Be sure to taper crimp. 45 acp is an easy round to start reloading.

__________________
S&W factory revolver armorer

Ordered a bullet puller this morning and will start off a little lighter.


Thanks for all the input! M

That's because Unique is slower than most powders usually used in .45ACP. The old powder trinity is Bullseye, Unique and 2400.

.45ACP is about as forgiving as it gets as far as minor errors go but I would start a bit lower than close to maximum.

FWIW -- The Alliant site says:

USE THIS DATA WITH ALLIANT BRAND POWDERS ONLY.

REDUCE RIFLE AND HANDGUN CHARGE WEIGHTS BY 10% TO ESTABLISH A STARTING LOAD.

DO NOT EXCEED THE LOADS DISPLAYED ON THE SITE OR ALLIANT'S RELOADERS GUIDE.

And Edition V of the Sierra reloading data gives a range of 5.7 to 7.7 grains of Unique with either their 185 grain JHP or FMJ Match bullets.

FWIW and just my thinking. I just checked my Lyman 49th for 45 ACP, 185 JHP and Unique. Max. load is 7.8 gr. and I know manuals will vary by a bit, but starting with 8.0 seems to me to be foolish. Not only is it over max in a trusted publication, but it is very poor reloading practice to jump in with high/upper near max. powder charges...

Unique is a very good versatile powder and I have used it many, many times for my 45 ACP loads for 3, 45 ACP guns...

Got good medical insurance?

Foolish would have been to not ask.


I based my initial decision on printed data, I just found what I had originally read (see image) It shows 8.0 gr as a beginning point and not to exceed 8.2.



I have already agreed to de-bullet and start over, so.......


Thanks

Attached Images

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That data sheet looks to be a bit old to me. And I would say the Unique starting load data was a misprint to me. Unique isn't so touchy that it has only a .2 grain difference between starting and max load for 45 Auto. What clued me in that it's some older data was the inclusion of Win 571 powder, which has been off the market for better than 10 years.

Perhaps "foolish" was a bit strong. My apologies. I see you used one source for load data, a Lee manual. I would suggest you get a better reloading manual; a Lyman 50th and/or a manual by the bullet manufacture of the bullets you are using. Lee isn't all "bad", but there are many other, much better manuals available. We know the Lee data is a compilation of other's testing and I'm not sure of the age of the data. Any time there is only one load listed, that is the max. charge and should be reduced 10% (and 8.0 is a bit higher than 7.4). I would suggest to any newer reloader to stick to published manual data 100%, at least for the first 10,000 rounds and after the reloader as a handle, an idea about powder charges, pressures and velocities...

Nuttin' wrong with asking, but ask/research before loading. My "Rule #1" is I pay no attention to any load data I see on any forum, any pet loads website, hear from any gun counter clerk, range rat, good intended friend or gun shop guru. I get 98% of my data from published manuals with a bit from powder/bullet manufacturers websites. Has worked well for me since I started reloading in 1969...

It's just hard to admit that I was wrong!


Per your suggestion I called Sierra bullets and asked about these specifically, they were very helpful.


185gr Sierra Jacketed Hollow Cavity 45acp,


6.0 to 7.5gr with Unique and a recommended length of 1.212


So, in retrospect, I got the length right!


Thanks again to everyone for the help and the ribbing.


I guess there are old re-loaders and bold re-loaders, but no old/bold re-loaders.


M

That 8+ grain charge of Unique is a fire breathing load for 45 ACP. I load much less when shooting high power factor in IPSC.

I'd suggest starting out a little lower.

I think it is more a matter of collecting data points than relying on one single data point. Much like statistical analysis, throw out the high and the low and the real number is somewhere in the middle. There are so many data points available on the web these days that you will soon get a feel for that "middle point" where everything just works. Enjoy your reloading, one of the most rewarding hobbies around.

Stu

FWIW and just a thought; I know of several reloaders that ignore the listed minimum charge in their manuals and just reduce the maximum charge 10% to begin their load work up...

Alliant gives 8.2 Unique with 185 Gold dot at standard pressure, on their website...

__________________
dd884
JMHO-YMMV

It's been my observation that Speer's gold dot data can be an outlier compared to other hollow points. Sometimes they say more charge, sometimes less. I think it has to do with the cavity shape / seating depth.

It's also been my observation that a lot of Alliant data is just compiled from other sources, I'm sure they took that particular data point from Speer. The new Alliant master load data is terrible imo.

Perhaps a couple of considerations when loading towards max.

As others stated load up a dummy round and check it for:
1-function/feeding from mag
2-"plunk" test, whether it engages the rifling and sticks in chamber
3-bullet setback. Using slide release, load dummy round from mag and check. If excessive, chamber pressures could jump.
4-chronograph the load. Some of us consider this mandatory for working up full pressure loads. It lets you know quickly if something is amiss from unusual higher than expected velocity's.

As stated by others, start low and work up, if/as needed. That said, I've shot many rounds of 185 gr. HPs over 8.0 grs. of Unique. My old Sierra manual went to 8.5.