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Old 08-16-2021, 08:24 AM
duman444 duman444 is offline
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Default Norma 9mm brass

Went to size/deprime several hundred 9mm brass on my Lee press with Lee dies. Noticed after a couple of hundred that the primers were not being knocked out. Checked my deprime punch and pin is missing. Have done thousands of 9mm through this carbide die, so figured, fatigue of metal and it finally broke. Did not have spare, but have several other Lee dies, so just moved a 38 super punch over. After maybe 40 to 50 cases, noticed its not pushing primers out either.

Checked and I have about 100 Norma brass range pickups. The flash hole in these cases is the smallest diameter I have ever seen. Found the pictured 2 Normas with the pins stuck solid in the flash hole. Could not pull pin out with needle nose pliers, had to punch them out of the brass. Reinstalled both pins in their original punch by hammering them in, segregated the Norma brass to the round file and finished decapping the other brands with no issues.

Be careful of Normal brass, expect that the pocket being that small, they would pull pins out of RCBS or any other dies that uses a replaceable pin held in by a collet.

Wonder if they use a magnum primer as the flash hole is smaller than other manufacturers?
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Old 08-16-2021, 08:47 AM
Ivan the Butcher Ivan the Butcher is online now
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Lee is famous for being a little "Ham Fisted" on depriming pins. Most brands have large and small sized pins and some have smaller Bench Rest pins also.

A tight flash hole is to help keep the ignition pressure in the case and not blow primers, epically in old pistols with weak return springs.

Lee dies and presses are great when on a tight budget, but you always get what you pay for.

Ivan
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Old 08-16-2021, 09:56 AM
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Originally Posted by Ivan the Butcher View Post
Lee is famous for being a little "Ham Fisted" on depriming pins. Most brands have large and small sized pins and some have smaller Bench Rest pins also.

A tight flash hole is to help keep the ignition pressure in the case and not blow primers, epically in old pistols with weak return springs.

Lee dies and presses are great when on a tight budget, but you always get what you pay for.

Ivan
Seen that same theme over and over again on the reloading forum. I load for over 10 calibers rifle and pistol, have nothing but Lee dies and this is the first issue I have had with them. they may be "budget" dies, but I have made over 100,000 rds. through them without an issue until this brass. My 2 cents, I blame the brass not the depriming pin. Was just giving an alert to people who might use those to watch out for Norma brass.
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Old 08-16-2021, 10:56 AM
Ivan the Butcher Ivan the Butcher is online now
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Actually I really like Lee loading equipment. I have 2 presses, about 18 or 20 sets of their dies and around 15 Lee Loaders. They have all performed well, but only within their designed performance (and THAT is all you can ask for!).

I load for 117 cartridges and have bought New and Used dies from every brand that massed produced and a few gun smith mad dies (My pride and Joy is a set of 219 Donaldson Wasp dies that Harvey's back-up set!) I have another 120 die sets, beside Lee, for their different applications in a number of different rifles.

All that being said, Lee dies are your problem, not the Norma brass (If you want to even call it a problem!) Lee is in the business of making affordable dies, that work on the majority of American ammunition. Norma was making 9mm Lugar (and other 9mm loadings) before Richard Lee was born, and making them to George Lugar's specifications, not Winchester or Remington's.

Lee does everything it can to keep the prices down, and one of those things is, when possible to make a single sized part when the original designs would call for multiple sizes. They also are not interested in interchangeability with anyone else's loading presses, Their presses use a thin thickness of treaded area to hold the dies, then to save materials their dies are on the short side, and presses with thick threaded areas the Lee dies are sometimes too short to reach the ram. There are a few work arounds for this, including extended shell holders.

You seem to be in a pretty good place though, the Norma brass was free and you were able to repair your decapping pins. So no harm/ no foul.

Ivan
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Old 08-16-2021, 12:27 PM
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Replacement pins are maybe in your garage, if you have any small finishing nails................

Glad you solved the problem and recovered your two pins.
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Old 08-16-2021, 07:47 PM
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Never had a problem with Lee dies, they work.
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Old 08-17-2021, 03:44 PM
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Default Pins are hardened

The pins must be hardened steel. Since I have spares, I tried to thin it out using a flat needle file and just burnished the blue color off of pin. Still not small enough to do the Norma primer decap.

Oh well, that's 150 of nice once fired brass headed for the round file.

Not like I can replace it from the 1/2 full 5 gallon bucket that I have in reserve.
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Old 08-25-2021, 07:52 AM
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Thanks for the heads up, I just picked up some nice, shiny Norma 9mm brass at the range. I reload my 9mm with Lee dies, which have been great for over 15 years now. So, I’ll toss them, and spare myself the aggravation!

I guess I’m a little eclectic, I mainly run Lee dies, or Redding dies. I love the quality fit and finish of the Redding dies, but honestly, all of my Lee dies have been 100% and make very accurate rounds.
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Old 08-25-2021, 08:45 AM
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Gives us reloaders something else to look for .
Cases with large or small primers ( 45 acp is bad about this ) at least are easy to see . Now small and large flash holes , not so easy to see ... what's next ??? Thin and thick rims ...
They could sell more shell holders with that idea ... Oh No ... I hope they don't read this ... all I need is to have to buy thin and thick rim shell holders !
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Old 08-25-2021, 09:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gwpercle View Post
Gives us reloaders something else to look for .
Cases with large or small primers ( 45 acp is bad about this ) at least are easy to see . Now small and large flash holes , not so easy to see ... what's next ??? Thin and thick rims ...
They could sell more shell holders with that idea ... Oh No ... I hope they don't read this ... all I need is to have to buy thin and thick rim shell holders !
Gary
I have Norma 9mm brass that won't fit into an RCBS shell holder. Either the rim section is too thick or the gap between the body and the rim is too thin. Trying to find a shell holder that will work.
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Old 08-25-2021, 09:25 AM
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Back in the 60's, I started reloading using all RCBS (Rock chucker press). As years passed and I needed more dies and a better press the cost of buying RCBS stuff was too expensive and RCBS presses were inferior to past Rock Chuckers. So, I went to Lee 4 turret press and dies. Never a failure with Lee stuff that wasn't my fault!
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Old 08-25-2021, 09:52 AM
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I have used Lee's dies for years .. I do not have any problems with them. They may be "budget", but they are still good quality.
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Old 08-25-2021, 10:59 AM
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50 years reloading, 26 different calibers, 100% Lee dies and presses.

One single pin breakage. I don't know how that berdan case got mixed in....
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Old 08-25-2021, 11:08 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LDM View Post
I have Norma 9mm brass that won't fit into an RCBS shell holder. Either the rim section is too thick or the gap between the body and the rim is too thin. Trying to find a shell holder that will work.
I haven't had any problem with decapping Norma 9mm using a Hornady shellholder. I would think that with Norma's reputation their brass would fit any standard shellholder, but I could be wrong. I use a Lee hand press, and finally broke the pin a year ago. Have been using an aftermarket replacement which is a tight fit in the flash hole, but does the job.
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Old 08-25-2021, 11:33 AM
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maybe I am a contrarian...I do have some Lee items including Lee Loaders. They have some innovative ideas( like the APP?) but their Quality just isn't up to what I consider the norm. I started out with RCBS Pacific and others many years ago. You can have problems with any brands but I seem to have fewer with the more robust tools. Lee dies are ok and I do use them...but they are my last choice. In fact I recently got a set of 44 Russian dies. Didn't really need 'em but they work, plus the price was right. And Lee does make dies that you don't see from other makers regularly
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Old 08-25-2021, 07:03 PM
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I'd say half my dies are Lee, haven't had any reasons to complain about their performance. Did once buy a new set that had a burr inside the sizing die that scratched cases, but Lee replaced it free. I prefer RCBS dies. I love to find used RCBS dies at gun shows, even in calibers I don't have. Never can tell when I might need them. I usually pay $10 or less for a set.

My source of decapping pin stock is my son. He sells orthopedic surgery devices, some of which use special stainless steel rods of exactly the right diameter and about a foot long. They are really tough and hard, and a hacksaw or wire cutter won't work to cut pins to length. I have to use a Dremel tool with an abrasive cutoff disc, and even then it's not easy. But they will absolutely not bend or break.

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Old 08-25-2021, 07:07 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by duman444 View Post
Seen that same theme over and over again on the reloading forum. I load for over 10 calibers rifle and pistol, have nothing but Lee dies and this is the first issue I have had with them. they may be "budget" dies, but I have made over 100,000 rds. through them without an issue until this brass. My 2 cents, I blame the brass not the depriming pin. Was just giving an alert to people who might use those to watch out for Norma brass.
Th same for me. I have used Lee dies for rifle and pistol and thousands of rounds with all kinds of brass. Much of the pistol is range brass as is a lot of the 223 and I have never had a issue because of Lee dies.
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Old 08-25-2021, 07:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GypsmJim View Post
50 years reloading, 26 different calibers, 100% Lee dies and presses.

One single pin breakage. I don't know how that berdan case got mixed in....
Agreed, I really like Lee’s design with the decap pin, pretty much eliminates broken pins.
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Old 08-26-2021, 08:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LDM View Post
I have Norma 9mm brass that won't fit into an RCBS shell holder. Either the rim section is too thick or the gap between the body and the rim is too thin. Trying to find a shell holder that will work.
I had the same problem with some brass ... I discovered some primers , upon firing , protruded just enough to keep them from fitting into even a Lee Shell Holder . I had to take a file to the protruding primer ... file off just enough so it would fit into a shell holder .
Before you do anything , check for protruding primers.
I discovered it when I set one of many on level bench , didn't toss it in container like I usually do ... the standing case wobbled all over the place , a finger across the base detected high / protruding primer ! The ones in the container all had the same primer protrusion... it doesn't take much at all .
A few strokes with a file and the primer is flat ... I'm sure there's a better way to fix them but I went with Easy Fix.
Next time I'm going to try driving the primers back in ... If you file too much primer away away the pin might puncture the cup ! Be careful with the file fix ...it's not the best .

Gary
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Old 08-28-2021, 07:43 PM
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Thanks, I'll add Norma brass to my junk list, and there are many brands of brass on that list, Lee dies are good, been using them for many years.
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Old 09-03-2021, 09:13 PM
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I may be the odd man out here, but I think Norma brass sucks.
Both rifle and pistol.
leadhead
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Old 09-04-2021, 12:49 PM
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I haven't sorted much 9mm brass in quite a while, several years (15?). I have reloaded several thousand 9mms and never come across this problem. Perhaps I didn't find any Norma brass. (I recently prepped about 400 9mm "once fired brass" with my Lee dies and had zero problems).

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Old 09-06-2021, 06:22 PM
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I have been hearing the same thing from my reloading buds recently about Norma brass primer holes being very small. I don’t think is has ANYTHING to do with the dies.
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Old 09-07-2021, 09:22 PM
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You now have learned why Lyman, Redding, and RCBS have a better idea for carbide pistol caliber sizing dies, replaceable decapping pins. Lee dies are excellent right up the the point when the decapping pin breaks and it will. Every die makers decapping pins will break, for Lee you need the whole new decapping stem, not just a new pin.
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Old 09-22-2021, 06:05 PM
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Went by Academy to pick up hunting license and found that is where the Norma brass is coming from. There were 16 to 20 boxes on the shelf with a limit of 4. Did not check price, but it was the only 9MM in the store.
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Old 09-22-2021, 06:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nevada Ed View Post
Replacement pins are maybe in your garage, if you have any small finishing nails................

Glad you solved the problem and recovered your two pins.
Years ago I did just that when I broke a decapping pin.
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