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Old 08-30-2021, 07:16 PM
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.44 Magnum:
240 grain FMJ bullet
25 grains 4227 powder
20" barrel rifle.

sighting in at 25 yards to hit center of target at 100 yards.
What should the POI be at 25 yards ?
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Old 08-30-2021, 07:22 PM
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I would start 3/4 inches higher than dead center, then get your walking shoes on...

Think it would depend on the rear rifle sight...
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Old 08-30-2021, 07:40 PM
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Whoa............

Hold the bus......!!

Those deer down in your state need a 44 Magnum to bring the meat to the table ?

They must be getting a lot BIGGER !!
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Old 08-30-2021, 08:37 PM
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I had 2 44 mag rifles, with factory 240's, I believe with a 25yard zero you need 1.5 to 2" for a 100 yard zero. But you must know you 25 yard zero!

Ivan
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Old 08-30-2021, 09:39 PM
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A 25 yard zero should be dead center @100 yards.. (IIRC)
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Old 08-31-2021, 12:05 AM
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You really need to know the velocity of your load. I’m thinking you are getting at least 1600 FPS out of 20” barrel with that powder.
With a 25 yard zero, you will be down .2” at 50 and down 3.8” at 100.
With a 50 yard zero, you will be up .1” at 25 and down 3.5” at 100.

I have a Ruger 96 carbine in 44 Mag. I have mine zeroed at 50. With the slower burning powders like 2400 and H-110, those carbine length barrels bring the 44 Mag to life. My Ruger 96 is hard to beat at flattening hogs inside 100 yards and is so easy to carry.

If you are determined to have a 100 yard zero, you should be 1” high at 25 and 1.8” high at 50 with a muzzle velocity of 1600. By the way, 25 grains of 4227 with a 240 gr bullet is WAY HOT. My old Speer #12 manual lists 23.4 grains of 4227 as MAX for any 240 gr jacketed bullet.

Last edited by tdan; 08-31-2021 at 12:27 AM.
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Old 08-31-2021, 08:39 AM
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25 grains of 4227 with a jacketed 240 is on the warm side. 24 grains is the heaviest load I have in my load data.

Out of a rifle barrel, you will get a little better velocity with a slightly slower powder like Win-296 or lilgun, with a little less pressure, though 4227 will certainly work as well.

Larry
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Old 08-31-2021, 11:56 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tdan View Post
You really need to know the velocity of your load. I’m thinking you are getting at least 1600 FPS out of 20” barrel with that powder.
With a 25 yard zero, you will be down .2” at 50 and down 3.8” at 100.
With a 50 yard zero, you will be up .1” at 25 and down 3.5” at 100.

I have a Ruger 96 carbine in 44 Mag. I have mine zeroed at 50. With the slower burning powders like 2400 and H-110, those carbine length barrels bring the 44 Mag to life. My Ruger 96 is hard to beat at flattening hogs inside 100 yards and is so easy to carry.

If you are determined to have a 100 yard zero, you should be 1” high at 25 and 1.8” high at 50 with a muzzle velocity of 1600. By the way, 25 grains of 4227 with a 240 gr bullet is WAY HOT. My old Speer #12 manual lists 23.4 grains of 4227 as MAX for any 240 gr jacketed bullet.
How many grains of #2400 do you use ?
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Old 08-31-2021, 02:28 PM
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25 grs of 4227 with a 240 gr jacketed bullet is’t “Way Hot” according to Lyman manuals. It’s listed as a factory duplication load. For the best velocity from a rifle or handgun with a 240 gr bullet use 24 grs of 296/H110 and a magnum primer. Chronos at a little over 1800 FPS out of my Ruger #3 single shot 22” barrel.
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Old 08-31-2021, 02:57 PM
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Jimmy.........I only tried 2400 in the Ruger 96 when I first got it. 17.7 gr got me right at 1500 FPS with a 240 gr Hornady XTP. My fav load is 23.5 gr of H-110 with that same XTP. That load clocks 1720 FPS in my Ruger’s 18.5” barrel. That load has always shot well in all my 629’s as well. Another powder that looks like a winner in a 44 mag long gun would be Lil Gun. I have not tried it in 44 mag, as there were reports about flame cutting on revolver frame top straps when it first came out. Since then I acquired a Rem 700 in 221 Fireball. That powder totally rocks in that caliber. On paper it looks like it will slightly outperform H-110 in velocity.

Another option that you may want to try is to zero your gun at 75 yards. Using a muzzle velocity of 1600 FPS, you would be up .5 at 25, up .8 at 50 and down only 2.0” at 100. If most of your hunting shots will be in the 50-100 yard range, that looks to be the best of all.
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Old 08-31-2021, 03:30 PM
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Alwslate.......Does your Lyman manual list a max load for that 4227? My Speer #12 is rather old and back then IMR and Hodgdon were separate companies. Now that Hodgdon is running the show, perhaps the formulation has changed for 4227. Looking through an old Hornady #4 manual, they show 25.3 gr of 4227 as max for the 240 gr XTP. The test gun was a Ruger Super Blackhawk. The Speer data I quoted earlier was tested in a Marlin model 1894. Looks like we may be comparing apples and oranges. Interesting, but not especially helpful when trying to work up a max load for an individual firearm.
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Old 08-31-2021, 04:33 PM
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“Working up a maximum load” has usually always applied to loads with centerfire rifles like the 7mm mag for example. Maximum loads have been loads at levels like 65,000 psi where pressure signs started to show. Maximum loads in pistol calibers are no where near maximum pressure but at pressures that are close to industry top pressures for the cartridges. 36,000 psi for the .44 magnum. Top loads listed in manuals will always be below those levels and is so stated in the information section if you care to read your manuals beyond just scanning the load tables. As to 4227 it has been sold with two different labels, Hodgdon and IMR. Knowing Hodgdon they are probably the same powder. In the past and maybe still handloaders would increase loads for centerfire rifles until pressure signs started to appear then back off slightly for loads for large game. But with today’s terrified handloaders that practice may belong to the good old days.

Last edited by alwslate; 08-31-2021 at 04:36 PM.
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Old 08-31-2021, 06:59 PM
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22grs. of 2400 with a 240gr. bullet will get you around 2000 fps from a 20'' barrel.
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Old 08-31-2021, 07:47 PM
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The load data I posted earlier was for IMR 4227. I thought I would check my old Hodgdon #26 manual for 4227 data. They show 24.0 gr MAX for H-4227 for a 240 gr jsp with 36,900 CUP. Turn the page and you find the MAX load for IMR 4227 is 22.0 gr for same bullet with 33,900 CUP. Kinda makes you think that Hodgdon is skewing the results to show a velocity edge in their version. The current story is that the latest version of IMR 4227 is simply the H-4227 formulation with an IMR label on it. Since load data and results are all over the place with this powder, my recommendation to the OP is just go with H-110.
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Old 08-31-2021, 08:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kenjen View Post
22grs. of 2400 with a 240gr. bullet will get you around 2000 fps from a 20'' barrel.
Oh no not hardly. Don’t own a chronograph do you
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Old 08-31-2021, 09:01 PM
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The standard for full power loads with a 240 jacketed bullet is 24-25 grs of 296/H110 for close to 1400 FPS out of a 7.5“ Ruger and about 1750 FPS out of the 18.5” Ruger 44 auto and about 1800 FPS out of a 20” Marlin. It seems that so many handloaders use these loads with complete sastifaction and safety why use anything else? Top charges vary with different manuals with Hornady going to 25 grs with their pre XTP HP but it doesn’t really matter. 24 grs with the Hornady bullet chronos about 1815 FPS out of my 22” Ruger and 25grs only runs a few fps faster. When you get to the point of compressed loads of 296 it stops responding to increases.
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Old 09-02-2021, 09:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmyj View Post
.44 Magnum:
240 grain FMJ bullet
25 grains 4227 powder
20" barrel rifle.

sighting in at 25 yards to hit center of target at 100 yards.
What should the POI be at 25 yards ?

With a scope zeroed at 100 yards, 25 yards should be just over 1 1/2" low POA.

Zeroed in at 25 yards, POA at 100 yards should be about 6 1/2" high.

...all depending on actual velocity as well as other variations and equipment set-ups.

Anything over about 1,200fps at those distances is overkill.

Last edited by Bryan Austin; 09-02-2021 at 10:10 AM.
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Old 09-02-2021, 09:18 AM
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There will be variation in this formula based on how high your line of sight on the rifle is above the line of light at the bore. So, scope versus iron sights make a difference. Bullet velocity makes a difference, thus barrel length in addition to load is a factor. You just have to do the work. You cannot sight in at 25 yards and predict your 100 yard performance.
My preference is to sight in at 50 yards and hold off for 25 and 100 yards, but that is for round ball muzzleloaders. Your results will vary ;-)
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Old 09-02-2021, 09:59 AM
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For grins I ran QL 44mag w/ 240 XTP loaded to Euro CIP 280 mpa / 40,600 psi level . Projected MAX loads were : 24.2grs I4227 , 21.0grs N-110 , 25.0grs W296 / H110 , 16.7grs N-105 , 21.5grs AA#9 , 21.5grs 2400 , 23.5grs Lil Gun , 20.5grs Enforcer / 4100 , 25.0grs 300MP , 24.0grs 5744 . Same level with a NOS 240 JSP col 1.580 projected max loads were : 12.6grs 800X , 20.5grs AA#9 , 22.5grs I4227 , 21.0grs 2400 , 23.0grs W296 / H110 , Lil Gun , 5744 , 21.8grs Enforcer / 4100 , 22.0grs 300MP .
Important to note these are projected NOT tested pressures & in NO WAY should QL or any other ballistics program be used as a loading manual . In OP's post I saw 25.0grs 4227 & thought WOW ! 4227 is noted for accuracy , not top velocities as it's too fast . Along with who shoots a 240 FMJ in 44mag ? Absolute cheapest jacketed 44 mag bullet capable of good accuracy is the Zero 240 , however it's fatter .430 vs most others .429 . Lee push thru .429 sizer fix dat toot suite .
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Old 09-06-2021, 04:33 PM
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Checking my Hornady and Sierra manuals, a 240 gr JHP is max at 24.2 gr in the Hornady manual, 23.5 gr in the Sierra, with their bullets. You don't mention primer, WLP or other brand magnum is suggested. Currently the IMR4227 is the only available 4227. The Hodgdon website gives a maximum load of 24 gr with the 240 gr Nosler JHP and a Remington 2 1/2 primer. Tapping the case after charging to settle the powder is a good idea before bullet seating.

FMJ, really???

Assuming you get 1700 f/s, 0.8 in high at 25 yards is supposed to put the Sierra JHP dead on at 100 yards.

My personal experience is with handguns, the 2400 has a much louder muzzle blast. Alliant lists 21 gr as the current maximum load. I'd have to find my load notes, but IIRC, I'm using the Remington 240 gr SJHP, 23.5 gr IMR 4227 and a CCI Magnum LP primer. I get 1200 f/s out of a 6 inch revolver.

Last edited by WR Moore; 09-09-2021 at 10:28 AM.
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Old 09-07-2021, 01:11 AM
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boatbum101:

re: your QL data (info?) of 12gr of 800-X for a Nosler 240gr JSP (one of my old favorites, BTW), Hodgdons shows a "null" (?) START load and then a MAX of 14.2 for 800-X @ 1415fps with 39,600cup, the highest pressure shown using a 240gr Nosler JHP. From a reloading standpoint I don't think the bullet design should matter...?

This was also @ 1.600" vs your 1.580": I don't see how +2.2gr & -0.020" jibes with the QL data (info?). It would certainly still be a HEAVY LOAD, none the less.

Cheers!

P.S. Hogdons 23gr START load of 296 gets you there with a whole Hades of a lot less pressure! And that's from an 8.275" barrel: that 240gr @ 1400 fps from a pistol should relate to considerably more from a rifle/carbine.
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Old 09-07-2021, 06:34 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alwslate View Post
Oh no not hardly. Don’t own a chronograph do you
Yes I do own a chronograph, as I said ''a round'' 2000fps my accrual readings are 1750 to 1800fps out of my Winchester 94.(Sorry for exaggerating) and with a lighter bullet (180-200gr.) I know I can reach it.

Last edited by kenjen; 09-07-2021 at 06:49 AM.
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Old 09-07-2021, 09:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kenjen View Post
Yes I do own a chronograph, as I said ''a round'' 2000fps my accrual readings are 1750 to 1800fps out of my Winchester 94.(Sorry for exaggerating) and with a lighter bullet (180-200gr.) I know I can reach it.
Do they make jacketed 44 bullets for those velocities?
I bought the kids a 16" '94AE not long ago.
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Old 09-07-2021, 08:25 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by STORMINORMAN View Post
boatbum101:

From a reloading standpoint I don't think the bullet design should matter...?
Jacket material, thickness and hardness, core hardness and bearing length of bullet against the barrel can all affect resistance to being driven down the bore. As can location of the crimp groove (how much case room the bullet takes up), if any. All of which can affect load data even assuming same bullet diameter.

If you're somewhere in the middle of the load data for a given bullet/caliber, it shouldn't make all that much difference. OTOH, if you're near the upper end of the load data it can make a big difference.

In Re: 2000 f/s-someone was making a 180 gr bullet for that velocity at one time. You might contact the various manufacturers for further info.

Last edited by WR Moore; 09-07-2021 at 08:27 PM.
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Old 09-07-2021, 09:13 PM
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Get a bigger target. At 25 yards, hits in the black on a 25 yard pistol target centered on your backer should still be on a 24" wide X 48" high target at 100 yards. There are no penalties for bringing too much target unlike not bringing enough gun.
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