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Old 09-05-2021, 08:20 AM
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I found some reduced load data for 4895 in 30-06 on Hodgdons website. I have no experience with 4895, and promptly ordered some 4895. After doing some more reading I found out there are 2 versions of this powder, IMR 4895 and H4895. Of course I ordered the IMR version not knowing there was more than one option. Are they interchangeable?


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Old 09-05-2021, 08:46 AM
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No, but very close. Both are probably among the most versatile of rifle powders (along with IMR 4064), i.e., good for most "normal" calibers from .223/5.56 through 6.5 Creedmore, 270 Winchester, 7X57, 30-30, 30-06, 308, etc. All the way up to the 300 Winchester Mag level!

Lots of load data from Hodgdons, bullet manufacturers, etc.

Do some research and start low and work up.

Cheers!
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Old 09-05-2021, 09:15 AM
Jimk45 Jimk45 is offline
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IMR-4895 is a great powder for 30-06, used a lot of it until I discovered Varget!
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Old 09-05-2021, 09:27 AM
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Good 30:06 powder when loading for the M1 Garand.
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Old 09-05-2021, 09:27 AM
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Here is some real life data on the 2 powders. I load to around 2700fps for my M1 Garand and both are very accurate powders with 1 MOA using wartime sights. Don't assume that they will work the same in your rifle and take the time to work up loads until you get the proper velocities for your rifle.

150 FMJBT - 4895 - 45g - 2717fps
150 FMJBT - 4895 - 46g - 2717fps
150 FMJBT - H4895 - 45g - 2725fps
150 FMJBT - H4895 - 46g - 2791fps (too fast for me)
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Old 09-05-2021, 10:56 AM
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Too bad that you did not pick up the Hodgdon powder instead.

It is the powder ment for reduced loads.............
and there is lots of data out there for many calibers.

IMR is a good powder for light target loads but not real light "Reduced loads".

In my 30-06 with a 150 ball with IMR I can get a nice target load at 2590fps.

In my 22-250 a 55 gr fmj with IMR 4895 at 2996fps works for me.

Last edited by Nevada Ed; 09-06-2021 at 11:02 AM.
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Old 09-05-2021, 12:14 PM
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Thank you everyone. Looks like I need to scrape together some more cash for the actual H4895.


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Old 09-05-2021, 12:23 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by roundgun View Post
I found some reduced load data for 4895 in 30-06 on Hodgdons website. I have no experience with 4895, and promptly ordered some 4895. After doing some more reading I found out there are 2 versions of this powder, IMR 4895 and H4895. Of course I ordered the IMR version not knowing there was more than one option. Are they interchangeable?

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No, they are not interchangeable. There is Hodgdon, IMR and Accurate - my favorite by far is Hodgdon's H4895. I've used it to do reduced loads for 308Win and it worked excellent.
H4895 is a very short stick so it meters nicely.
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Old 09-05-2021, 12:37 PM
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Try your IMR4895 and you may be just fine with it. In recent years, the ďnewerĒ powders like H4895 and H4350 have gotten a lot more attention, but IMR4895 and IMR4350 still do a great job. I agree with not trying to interchange the data, but there is still plenty of good data available for the IMR version. Nothing at all wrong with IMR4895. I wish I had an 8# keg of it sitting around right now.
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Old 09-05-2021, 01:02 PM
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These days we use what we have, but I haven't bought any IMR4895 or other IMR powders in years. There's nothing wrong with them, but H4895 like other Hodgdon Extreme powders is pretty resistant to temperature fluctuations. Also, as already mentioned, charge weights can be safely reduced a considerable amount. This doesn't mean much for many handloaders, but for cast bullet shooters, it's a big advantage.

Many like Hodgdon's Varget and it's an excellent powder for many uses. The burn rate is very close to H4895. However, after using a lot of both Varget and H4895 for years in a number of rifle cartridges, I've found overall from an accuracy perspective, H4895 frequently has a slight edge on Varget. From a velocity standpoint, Varget is often a little better.
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Old 09-05-2021, 01:24 PM
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H version is somewhat faster than the I . H4895 can be safely reduced to 60% of a max load , not only for cast but jacketed too . Both versions are quite flexible , easy to work with , quite accurate . Like Unique you can find a load for dang neigh anything & it plays well with cast bullets . If you like milsurp stuff it & 4064 are hard to beat . I shoot it with cast bullets in 6.5 X 55 , 7.5 X 55 , 7.62 X 54R , 30/06 , 303 Brit , 8 X 57 . Give Hodgon's a call & speak with them about downloading I 4895 , I suspect it's possible . Neither are hard to light & exhibit linear progression pressurewise . At one time IMR published loading data for every powder they made in just about every caliber with velocity & pressure data .
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Old 09-05-2021, 01:50 PM
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A lot is made of the temperature sensitivity thing. Iím sure itís important to some, particularly our military that stores and uses ammunition in all sorts of climates, but for me, itís almost a non-issue. 95% of my shooting will be done between 50 and 90 degrees. Iím not too concerned about performance at below zero temps. I wonít be there. Iíll take all the IMR4895 (and IMR4350) anyone can spare.
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Old 09-05-2021, 10:33 PM
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As you see above, they are not the same. Hodgdon has tested H4895 with the 60% reduced loads and they are safe. They haven't tested IMR4895 and they do not recommend using it for reduces loads.

At least you didn't waste money on the IMR version because it's a very good powder for standard 30-06 ammo and of course others too. IMR4895 used to be THE 30-06 powder. I now use H4350 for standard 30-06 ammo.
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Old 09-06-2021, 09:22 AM
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I use lots of IMR4895. I've had excellent results in 308 at 10-15% below starting load in both bolt action, AR 10 and particularly an M1A. I do shoot a fair amount of reduced loads in bolt and single shot using cast bullet data from Lyman, just substituting jacketed or plated bullets. Several pistol powders work but AA5744 is amazing.
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Old 09-06-2021, 01:12 PM
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I've had great luck with 52 grains of IMR4895 behind a Hornady 150 BTSP. It is one of my go to loads for deer hunting and shoots into an inch at 100 yards with my 700 Remington. That load is near the max so kick it back about 5% if you are thinking of using it. I've killed a ton of deer with it and not one complained.
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Old 09-06-2021, 03:40 PM
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I would not worry if you want to use the IMR4895 powder for deer hunting or target work..........
even with a reduced 150 fmj bullet at only 2590fps, at 400 yards it will have 1,063 ft/lbs of energy.
A factory Remington 150 gr core/lokt doing 2880fps at 300 yards has 1,488 ft/lbs of energy with a poor BC of .338.....................
if you are loading for a 308 or 30-06 rifle.

Slow is not always a bad thing.
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Old 09-06-2021, 04:20 PM
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I am a big fan of H-4895. Never tried the IMR version. It is to rifles what Unique is to handguns - not the best in specific applications, but works good enough in most.

I use it for reduced loads in my .35 Whelen and .358 Winchester with cast bullets, and for my M1a with 150 grain FMJ's.

Larry
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Old 09-06-2021, 04:35 PM
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I've burned up a dump truck full of 4895 shooting an M1a, and M1 Garand in Service Rifle competition. It was for years "The" powder for both of these rifles. In my experience, the H4895 grouped a tiny bit better than the IMR, the S.D. over a chronograph was a bit less. But I've used both, sometimes it just came down to what was available. Charge weights for any given bullet weight are very close, but not exactly interchangeable. But I doubt you'd get in any trouble using the same data for either. As always, load a few, check for pressure signs, and of course accuracy, and have at it. Works very well in a 5.56/223 also, by the way. One of just a few powders I only buy in 8lb jugs.

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Old 09-09-2021, 02:29 PM
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The powder used for military loading of the .30-'06 for use in the M1 Garand was essentially IMR4895 under a different name. And it is excellent for that application and will not damage the M1's OpRod. Slow powders such as 4350 should never be used to handload .30-'06 for use in the M1 as its pressure curve is incorrect and can result in bending the M1's OpRod. While H-4895 and IMR4895 are not exactly the same, there is not much difference.
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Old 09-10-2021, 10:01 PM
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Nothing wrong with your IMR 4895. I use it for much of my rifle loading. Check the loading manuals, you can slow that 150 grain bullet down quite a bit.
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Old 09-11-2021, 12:21 AM
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For the record, here is the reduced loading strategy from Hodgdon for H4895:
Attached Files
File Type: pdf h4895-reduced-rifle-loads.pdf (85.1 KB, 13 views)
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Old 09-11-2021, 05:44 PM
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Regarding reduced CF rifle loads (which I know is not the real topic of this discussion), while it is possible to use 4895, my choice would be to use a faster propellant in the 4227-4198 range for lighter loads as at least for me, they produce more consistent groups. And the charge weights are considerably less (more rounds per pound). Last weekend, I checked some .30-06 loads (in a Remington 700) using 168 grain bullets and 25 grains of 4227. I was getting average MVs slightly below 2000 ft/sec with Standard Deviations of 20 ft/sec or less. All you'd want from a mild .30-'06 load. Very much like shooting a .30-30 and just as good for use on deer at closer ranges.

Last edited by DWalt; 09-11-2021 at 07:45 PM.
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Old 09-12-2021, 07:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DWalt View Post
Regarding reduced CF rifle loads (which I know is not the real topic of this discussion), while it is possible to use 4895, my choice would be to use a faster propellant in the 4227-4198 range for lighter loads as at least for me, they produce more consistent groups. And the charge weights are considerably less (more rounds per pound). Last weekend, I checked some .30-06 loads (in a Remington 700) using 168 grain bullets and 25 grains of 4227. I was getting average MVs slightly below 2000 ft/sec with Standard Deviations of 20 ft/sec or less. All you'd want from a mild .30-'06 load. Very much like shooting a .30-30 and just as good for use on deer at closer ranges.

Thank you. I currently have some 4227.


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Old 09-12-2021, 09:17 AM
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Pawed thru all my old manuals & lightest charge stated for even cast bullets with IMR 4895 is 34.0grs in 30-06 . So apparently IMR version has a narrower prefered pressure range . I shoot 26.0grs H4895 with LY311284 in my 03 , 32.0grs IMR 4064 with same bullet also a good load & shorter range pest load of 19.6grs 4759 .
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Old 09-12-2021, 05:14 PM
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IMR 4895 does very well in .223 as well.
Jim
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Old 09-12-2021, 07:10 PM
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Quote:
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IMR 4895 does very well in .223 as well.
Jim
I may give it a try since they quit making my go to 556 powder; IMR4320.
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Old 09-12-2021, 08:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DWalt View Post
my choice would be to use a faster propellant in the 4227-4198 range for lighter loads as at least for me, they produce more consistent groups.
I know I'm straying OT, but since you brought it up:
4227 does well for reduced loads in the big cylindrical cases too, 444, 45/70-90, 458, etc.
For example in 444 a 240 jacketed would be over 46-47 gr 4198 for 2300-2400 fps.
31-35 gr 4227 gives 1950-2150 fps.
Much easier shooting.
IMR4227 is one of my all time favorite powders.
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Old 09-13-2021, 01:05 AM
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Yes, IMR 4227 is a very versatile powder, good for lighter loads in bottleneck rifle cases and full loads in straight cases (including handgun Magnum calibers). Probably at its best for use with lead bullets in rifles. I started loading .45-70 using 4227. My favorite lead bullet load for both the .308 and .300 Savage is around 23-24 grains of IMR 4227 with a 170 grain lead bullet. That will produce about 2000 ft/sec in both with good grouping performance. Similar to, but slightly slower than, H110 and 2400. It is one not to pass up if you can find any at the right price.
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Old 09-14-2021, 09:54 AM
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And IMR shines in the 45 Colt.
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