I've been looking at this for a little while now, I would really prefer to be able to knock out about 500+ rounds an hour. It seems like wonce you get everyting set up properly, and confirm your settings, you should be good to go. I was looking at the Hornady AP set up. The versatility was reloading is appealing, but I want to be able to shoot more without the long term heavy costs of buying volumes of loaded ammo.

I've been looking at this for a little while now, I would really prefer to be able to knock out about 500+ rounds an hour. It seems like wonce you get everyting set up properly, and confirm your settings, you should be good to go. I was looking at the Hornady AP set up. The versatility was reloading is appealing, but I want to be able to shoot more without the long term heavy costs of buying volumes of loaded ammo.

Many will advise you to get a single-stage press, such as a Rock Chucker, so you can learn reloading "the right way." They have a point and, if you want to load rifle ammo, this is particularly true.

However, if you need pistol ammo, you probably need VOLUME. Productivity requires a progressive press.

IF you only plan to do pistol ammo AND if you only plan to load one or two calibers, a Dillon SDB would be a good start.

If you also plan to do rifle ammo, or if you plan to load multiple calibers, consider the Hornady LNL or the Dillon 550. Either will do well. The LNL has just been improved and MAY still have that killer one thousand free bullet deal.

Dillon's customer service IS the industry standard.

I would advise against any beginer getting a progressive, just for safety sake.

There is too much going on at once for someone with no experience to keep track of it all. AND, you don't know what to watch for either.

If you want a little production, get a Lee turret press, you can take the indexing rod out and use it as a single stage till everything is dialed in.

Too much going on at once is my concern. I'm pretty careful, thoughtful, and technically proficient, but this worries. I think if I can find someone to show me the ropes, I would really like to crank out some volume with a progressive.

Dillon has a video for its machines, so you can SEE how to set them up, then use them.

I suspect a search of YOU-TUBE will turn up more.

Start with a single stage, which will produce less ammo per hour but will let you know when you make a mistake. And make a mistake you will, if you start with a progressive.

Volume isn't your initial goal, it is your FINAL goal after you have learned to do everything perfectly.

If your dead set on a progressive, why don't you get a single stage from Ebay (cheap), or get a single stage "kit" with scales funnel etc.... They are'nt that expensive, once you've got the hang of, setting dies up and putting out good ammo, then get a progressive. You'll need all the same stuff for the single stage but it'll give you a chance to learn procedures and what is involved in each step.

Remember, a progressive does 4+ steps and gives a loaded round every time you pull the handle. Makes for a lot of ammo to pull apart if you don't catch something right away.


A turret press will do 200rds an hour, but, only does one step at a time till a round is done, 3-4 pulls, much easier to watch, way easier to learn on. They are also inexpensive.

I suggest starting with a single stage press and recommend the Rockchucker or similar high quality press. I have the Dillon 550, but I perform all depriming on a very old RCBS Jr. to keep the 550 clean.

I load all small batch test loads on the Rockchucker and still use it a lot when I am too lazy to change the primer setup on the 550.

Hmmm - maybe need another 550.

The other thing is that the single stage or a turret press like the Lee Deluxe is much nicer for working up loads, getting any bullet right. I started with the Lee, used it for about a year and then went to a Dillon for production. I still go back to the Lee to work up a new bullet and make test versions of it. Once I know it's accurate I can crank them out on the Dillon. It's really not much fun to use a progressive for that. Too much is going on whether you want it or not.

The most compelling reason to start with a single-station press instead of a high-volume progressive press is statistical.

Look at the number of ammunition kah-BOOM! and bullet-in-bore incidents that involve ammo made on a progressive machine. I am not saying that progressives cause kah-BOOMS, only that statistically it is so much MORE likely to end up with cartridges that contain either no powder or a powder overcharge. This happens even to veteran reloaders, and it happens way too often to relatively new reloaders. There are so many things going on that requires your absolute undivided attention.

My recommendation is like most of the others: start with a single stage that will do both rifle and pistol, and acquire some experience before cranking up the progressive.

I started reloading with an RCBS Rockchucker press in about 1976. If you wanted a progressive then you had to buy a Star. The first caliber I loaded was .45 Colt. Followed very shortly by .45 ACP . I still have the Rockchucker but also use a Dillon 550 for most handgun rounds. I think you should start with a single stage press. That way you can concentrate on one thing at a time. You will find that a single stage press will come in handy even after you have a progressive.

I'm going to buck the trend, and suggest going ahead and getting the progressive....you'll wish you had it later. I learned reloading on a progressive, and you can monitor and load a single round at a time if you wish....just simply don't introduce more than one round to the plate at a time. Then when you are proficient and ready, you can ease your way into true progressive loading. It's like buying any machine or electronics, always get the next size up from what you think you need....if you think you need a 42" TV, you better get a 50"....if you think you want a 5 gallon compressor, better get a 10+....if you think you want a 4000 watt generator, better get an 8000....and if you think you want a single stage reloader, better go ahead and get the progressive (you can operate it basically as a single stage anyway).

I know it was horribly wrong of me to do it...awful actually...a foolish blunder...

But my first press was (in 2000) Dillon 650.

I never used another type of press until a year or so back when I decided to start reloading bottle-neck ammunition. It was then that I tried a Lee single stage (worked just fine)...now I use a Hornady single stage LNL for my bottle-neck reloads...love those LNL bushings!!

What can I say, I like being able to crank out 750-800 rounds an hour with out hurrying or pushing any envelopes.

ANY/ALL press/reloading setup require(s) your full attention to ensure safe reloads. You also need a strong reloading manual library and should take time to read and understand reloading BEFORE you begin pulling the handle.

I have found that many who might say "don't start with a progressive" did not get into reloading using a quality progressive. Hard to judge if you chose a different path.

"Tweak intensive" progressive press may not be the best if you are not "mechanically inclined" (like me) but a solid progressive is a piece of cake.

Enjoy your new press.

Bob

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"Onward thru the Fog"

I'm another "start w/a single stage" advocate. I started w/a Rockchucker kit,press,loading manual,powder measure,scale,etc. Got comfortable w/it and learned how to reload,step by step. After a couple of years I moved up to a Hornady LNL AP w/case feeder. The initial learning curve was steep enough w/the experience I had. Appproaching the progressive green would have been really frustrating.
I question the 500+/hr production rate mentioned. I've got my "system" where I stop at intervals to check various items,random powder weight checks,etc,things I feel are necessary to insure I'm safely producing quality ammo. I think I'm doing 250,perhaps 300/hr. I've talked w/others whom I respect and they admit to similar production rates,regardless if their equipment is red,blue,or,green.
If the attraction to reloading is strictly financial I suggest working a few hrs extra overtime a week at the job and using the $ to buy ammo,you'll come out ahead.
Kevin

Start with a single stage.When you begin reloading,there is a learning curve to get through that takes time.The progressive will muddy the water.I understand why you find the progressive appealing but I believe you need to master the art of walking before you learn to run.

Yes, it's ok, and it's plenty safe as long as you're a little mechanically inclined. The setup may take a little fiddling. As others have said there's no reason you can't load one at a time on your progressive. The rules are the same, you always need to pay attention to what you're doing.

I know several people, myself included that started with a progressive and have had excellent results. Just be careful, read the books and enjoy it.

You can use a progressive one case at a time. Watch the case go through each station. You can focus on each step without distraction. If you want, you can batch process, simulating true single stage operation.

Go ahead, buy a good progressive. Specifically, buy a Dillon or Hornady.

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It's around here somewhere!

my vote goes with a quality single stage to begin with....do u really need 3-500 rounds an hour??

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SWCA#2208
KK4EMO

Before you do anything read a couple of reloading manuals so that you understand what each stage of the reloading process is all about.

You can skip the single stage press and jump right into a progressive if you are technologically adept and anal compulsive. As one of the posters already said, use your progressive with one cartridge at a time till you get the hang of things.

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I shoot, therefore I am.

What turns most folks off from a progressive in the beginning isn't the technical aspect but cost. Starting a new hobby and not being sure they are going to like it coupled with the higher cost of equipment can be a turn off for some.

If money is not the main object and you need/want to load a bunch of ammo, then there is no reason in the world not to get a progressive press to start on.

ANY of them can be used in single stage fashion, which is a good choice when learning the process, and you must learn the process FIRST and FOREMOST.

Once that is accomplished you can load ammo to your hearts content.

Lee has some free videos on their website that show setup for the single stage and the turret press they produce. It doesn't matter what press you load on, the process is still the same and the videos will apply.

Leave it to vonfatman to do it completely backwards and not blow himself up! He is quite special!

I now have a bunch of progressives, 3 Square Deals and an XL650. Also have a Lee Classic Turret Press in the cast iron version, and several single stage presses under the bench.

Dillon is the industry standard for equipment and customer service, IMO.

Unless you can’t walk and chew gum at the same time a progressive would tend to be a challenge. Those that advise against a progressive ignore the oblivious. The progressive may be used with only one cartridge case at a time until that one cartridge case completes the full cycle of operation (sizing – primer decapping – primer seating – flaring – powder charging – bullet seating & crimping) to a completed round. One simply observes the process at each individual station.

I’m not a “Hand Loader” but rather a “Reloader”. Understanding the difference is important. There are standard “Loads” that I’ve utilized for decades and feel no need for experimentation. I only wish that as an example that Dillon equipment had been in the market place when I started reloading. The rate/ease of production is the advantage of the progressive. Both come by experience. Go slow in order to go fast. Quantity at the expense of quality is problematic.

Is there a place for a single stage press yes there is. I have one but I also have three progressive units.

Note that the Hornady LNL is a true progressive; it indexes the case with each pull of the handle.

The Dillon 550 is actually a semi-progressive; YOU index the cases to each station. This means you can use it as a single-stage if you wish.

I started out with a progressive setup 20 years ago and never had a problem. If you are confident in your abilities and are attentive, you should have no problems starting with a progressive. The Hornady LNL AP is, IMO, one of the best reloaders there is and in fact I ordered another one this week. It will load anything that you will ever want to load and with the 1000 free bullets, it's a no brainer. Dillon is a good machine also but you would need to buy the 650 to be comparable to the LNL AP.

It may be a radical thought, but I think if you take lessons from a competent instructor who lets you use his equipment to start, you can learn reloading on ANY good machine. I have started several people on Dillon, and that's what they bought as their first press.
There were a couple who bought a Lee turret (which I also have) and a couple who decided reloading was not suited to their personality (and I agreed, vice versa).

Trying to learn reloading without taking lessons is like learning to drive from a book: possible, but not the best idea. And it helps to drive a few cars (or loaders) before buying your first one.

As to why ANYONE would want to load hundreds of pistol cartridges per hour, try shooting IDPA or USPSA and come back and tell me!! Practice, practice...

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Science plus Art

The one-at-time approach occured to me last night while brushing my teeth. I'm starting to think for this reason I will go progressive to avoid buying two machines.

Lots of great info here...

I will add that I had some "extra" cash when I bought my first press (the 650 Dillon)...so money was not an issue for me when I pulled the trigger.

It's like any other hobby, cars, bikes, coins, photography etc...if you have long-term passion for the hobby, most will choose tools that enhance their experiences.

Another nice consideration...(one I did not consider but learned about later) is that Dillon presses hold their value so well, most can take their used Dillon, throw it up on Ebay and nearly clear their entire purchase price selling it as a used press...crazy? Yep it is.

Bob

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"Onward thru the Fog"

Actually, 500+ per hour is what I'm looking to do once I get comfortable. I'm looking for a long term cost benefit more than load vesatility. At least that's where my thinking is now. I love to tinker with things, so I imagine I will explore the full potential of reloading as time goes on.

As I don't have a Dillon RL550 nor a Hornady L-N-L AP, I have two questions and an observation.

#1: Does the RL550 have an automatic index on it's primer advancement or is it similar to the Square Deal?

#2: Does the Hornady L-N-L AP have an automatic index on it's primer advancement or is it similar to the Square Deal?

Here is my observation. I have 3 Square Deals and an XL650. The Square Deals have no problem being used as a single stage press. Simply run one case around at a time and all is well. Attempting to do that with the XL650 is going to cause problems if it is set up to be a true progressive. Why? Because of the priming system. The primer disk advances with every stroke of the press even if the proceeding primer isn't/hasn't been removed by a case. What happens then is that after two operations of the handle those primers begin to drop onto a tray. The tray will only hold a few then they will fall on the floor. Is there a way around that? Yes. One can remove the cam that operates the primer disk auto-advance feature by removing just one allen bolt.

You just have to be on the ball so that a case doesn't get powder in it without a primer. Very bad, especially if you use fine grained ball powders! (Don't ask me how I know! )

Anyway, not owning a L-N-L, I have no clue how their equipment handles priming. Fill me in.

One complete round at (7.2-Sec) that’s within the capabilities of the Dillon 550B and apparently the Dillon 650 is capable of one complete round every (3.2-Sec) The reality may be some what different. My pace of operation is more leisurely at (10.3/12-Sec) per completed round.

PRECISELY. There is a world of difference between REloaders and hand loaders: Purpose.

For the former, it is a means to an end; for the latter, an end in itself.

NOTE: Dillon will REBUILD its presses for the cost of return shipping, which was $65 when I did it 14 months ago. Add my cost, about $40, and I got a rebuilt AND upgraded 550 for about $100. I can sell it for three times that simply by placing an ad on any number of firearms forums.

Just a point to consider.

I bought the 550 first and glad I did. However everyone really is right here, with most of what was said. I do need 3 or 4 hundered rounds an hour. I sometimes use it as a single stage press and hand charge the powder for complete accuracy. The primer will simply sit and wait until a case is placed in the first station no matter how many time the handle is cycled. The PRIMERS simply sit in the cup and wait. If I was a rife reloader I would probably go with dedicated single stage for that. I will say the Dillon powder drop seems more accurate with finer grains of powder. This is why I love this site, it is a mountain of ideals,opinions and most of all help when needed, good luck on you decision sir.

My first press was a Dillon RL 550B I no longer have it but I am planning on buying another. I really liked the fact that it did not auto index and could easily load progressive for pistol and work single stage for rifle. Also never a hassle from dillon when I broke things. This was 15 years ago hope they have not changed.

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SC Army National Guard

Simply put...
You want match ammo.. Learn on a single stage, develop your loads, and you'll get match ammo.

When you know what your doing and get a progressive, you'll know how to get that same quality ammo..

You want lots of ammo, that REALLY DOESNT PERFORM the way it should from the gun that it SHOULD HAVE been developed for....then get a progressive from the start.

Mr. shovelwrench,
I would respectfully suggest that you are making a a couple of inaccurate assumptions:

1) You are assuming Mr. SLT223 is buying his press to compete in matches. He never mentioned this in the thread.

2) You may also be assuming we (the other reloaders out here in reloading land) reload to produce "match ammo". Sir, I would suggest a good many of us thoroughly enjoy this hobby with nary a care if our output would group a 1/10th inch tighter at Camp Perry.

3) You also may have assumed that the average handgun shooter can hold a gun steady enough at 25 yards to make precision reloading important/needed for what many/most of use do at the range.

4) And lastly, it would appear that you believe that we who started reloading on progressives were unable to hone our reloading skills because of our choice of tool. You have suggested we will find a pile of "ammo, that REALLY DOESN'T PERFORM" at the end of our rainbow. Well sir, that is quite an assumption and I would suggest you are full of bologna.

But thanks for thinking of us!

Bob

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"Onward thru the Fog"

You can use the Hornady press as a single stage press, simply rotating one round all the way around the press at a time. The little 'shuttle' that goes back and forth to bring a primer forward from the stack in the tube goes back and forth with every stroke of the handle. However, if there is already a primer in the shuttle, because you are running the press as a single stage, the shuttle does not pick up another primer. The primer in the hole in the shuttle prevents another one from entering. You can pull the handle all day long, and the same primer just keeps travelling back and forth in the shuttle. Once the primer is pressed up into a primer pocket, then the shuttle can pick up another one.

I will chime in on the 'learning to reload on a progressive press' question.

I am a cautious guy, and when I taught myself to reload I went the single stage route. I bought an old used Lyman Spartan press for $50 at a gunshow and taught myself to reload on it. I used the Lyman Pistol and Revolver handbook as my primer. I will say one can learn to reload on a progressive machine, but one MUST take the time to actually learn exactly what is going on at each station on the press. This does not mean running 3 rounds through the press and then flipping the switch to full auto. It means taking the time to run a few boxes through one round at a time, and studying exactly what is going on at each station. It means really understanding how to set up your dies. Too many times guys who learn to reload on a progressive press don't take the time to really understand what is happening. They have not learned to be reloaders, they have learned to be machine operators. When things start going wrong, and they will, those guys don't know what to do. Take your time to learn on a progressive press, and with a little bit of patience you will become a good reloader.

Yes, the Hornady press has recently gone through a redesign of the part that kicks out the finished rounds. This was a weak point on the press. However everyhing I have heard is that Hornady is backed up and has not caught up on orders for the new improved model yet.

Yes, I think the Hornady press is a fine machine, I have two of them.

EEWWWW, what you said!

I always thought that "below knee" (bologna) was a modest dress!

Several assumptions. Anyone ever seen an acrostic for assume?

Sgt Preston here. I consider myself to be a good shooter who reloads to fill my ammo boxes. So I shoot and load a lot (15,000 rounds per year). And I don't want to spend all year reloading on a single stage press. So I bought a Dillon 550 about 6 years ago. I never owned any other press. Prior to beginning to reload I bought and read several reloading manuals so I had a thorough grasp on what happened at each step of the reloading process & how to reload in a safe manner. It only took a short while to become familiar with the process & to produce ammo that will hit the bullseye every time I shoot it correctly. Hope this helps. Sgt Preston USMC LLA

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NRA Life Member

The photo (48) rounds traditional standing at 50yds. The ammunition loaded on a progressive. At one time I could do this on demand. At this stage in my life I can do it on a good day. The point is quality ammunition may and can be loaded on a progressive press. Would the ammunition have been better quality on a single stage I simply don’t know? Either way it’s an individual decision dependent on comfort level.

Begining your reloading experience with a progressive press is asking for a disaster.

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Lost in Penn's Woods

Mr. tomf52,

Sir, somehow while reloading I have managed:
---not blow up a gun, not to rip off any fingers, not lost an eye (both eyes are still in their respective sockets) and my targets end up full of holes in that black area near the center (I mostly shoot from 22-25 yards).

Crazy as this may seem to you and a few others, I have done all this since the early 2000s while pulling the handle of my Dillon 650 40k plus times. All prior to buying my single stage last year.

It appears to me that some of us have chosen a different reloading path from the majority and this is upsetting to those who did not.

Why assume those who would start with a progressive are less capable of reading, learning, thinking and making steady progress in this hobby because of the machinery we choose to use?

Are you assuming that good judgment is only available to those who begin reloading with a single stage press?

...interesting....
Does this also mean those who drive a stick are better drivers than those use a car/truck with an automatic transmission?

Respectfully submitted.

Bob

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"Onward thru the Fog"

Well - there you go again.....

Ruining a perfectly Luddite rant with fact and logic.

Have you no shame sir - have you NO shame?

Buy whatever type of loading press you want, then learn how to run it.

Lee directions are very poor on their progressives, and unless you like to tinker with the press a lot, I would not recommend one of these presses for a beginner.

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John

I think he is assuming everyone is like him!

You are just above the ordinary, Bob. Special, I think we call it!

By the way, if you get Bob upset, you have gone over the line!

Mechanical aptitude plays a big part in which press you choose. Lack of such can be overcome either with hands on help or video instruction. If you are "smarter than the average bear" you can get through it by yourself. There is a possibility for mistakes, always, hopefully not devastating ones!

I've had a Hornady LNL AP for about a week or so with the only shell plate I could find that was of any use. So, I've been making .38 Specials out of all of the unloaded brass I have laying around.

Since I have used single stage or turrets for 40+ years, I have to admit I still have some coordination problems with the LNL.

Since I have 5 stations to work with, I have installed a RCBS Lock Out die on the press. The way I have the Lock Out adjusted allows a powder charge as low as 4.0 gr and as much as 6.7 gr when the target weight is 6.5 gr. With it set that way, I don't have many worries about overloads, i.e. a potential KB, and I don't have to worry about squibs, i.e. little to no powder.

It's pretty obvious that the powder selection is going to influence the consistency of the final product. The choice of powder almost necessitates using a free flowing ball powder of some sort, as Dillon recommends.

Since I used to make a living as a mechanic, I think I have a reasonable degree of mechanical aptitude. However, operation of the LNL isn't getting too much easier, even with it being used more.

So to be politically correct Paul, would you say you are "coordinately challenged" ?

You are finding out what the rest of us progressive owners have known for a while, although I know you suspected it already, ball or small flake powders work best.

There are some people that would find it hard to believe you have one of those "new fangled things"! Just goes to show you that old dogs can learn new tricks!

Way to go brother.

I want to know how it works!

Actually Skip, I was saying it takes a lot more concentration on the next step that is happening with a multitude of other steps, all taking place at the same time.

With a turret or a single stage, concentration is placed on one activity at a time and anything out of the ordinary is easily dealt with.

When the progressive locks up, you have to determine whether it's a spent primer stuck where it shouldn't be, whether the primer seater has actually fully installed a new primer, whether the Lock Out die is lined up properly to allow a case to even be checked, whether the Lock Out has detected a case that's out of spec for powder, whether the bullet is aligned properly for it to enter the seating die and etc.

When things are going right, there isn't too much of concern. However, things don't always go right, more times than is suspected by non-operators.

I'm with Bob (Von) on this. Buy right the first time and you are done. You can always pick up a good used single press for next to nothing to play around with. Saying all should start out with a single stage is about like saying all should start out with a single shot pistol and move up. Maybe I defy conventional wisdom but as stated earlier, I started out with a progressive over 20 yrs ago and in no time was spinning out 1000 rounds week to feed my habit and guess what, the accuracy was fine and I never blew anything up. I received my latest LNL AP this week. I put my name on Natchez's wait list last week, got an email Monday night and it was here is 2 days for $391. It has the new EZJect system and also now includes the pistol powder measure/rotor which is a real bonus. The only negative is that my older shell plates will not work with the new press so I either have to buy new ones or send the old to Hornady to be machined to work.

Well, yeah. I thought everybody knew that.

Look, this argument is as old as the hills and twice as dusty.

The simple fact is, with a single stage press, there is only one thing going on at a time. A shell is riding up into a die. With a progressive press, there are about 4 or 5 things going on at once, depending on how many stages your press has. Plus, there is a mechanical linkage involved that may or may not be troublesome. Some of us felt more comfortable learning the mysteries of reloading starting out simple, with a single stage press, so that all of our attention could be on the job of reloading. Most of us since graduated to a progressive press, I have two. I kept the old single stage and still use it for rifle rounds where there is no necessity to be loaidng hundreds of rounds.

Others are a bit bolder and feel comfortable starting reloading on a progressive. More power to them.

My concern is the guy who is oblivious and just keeps yanking the handle when he has not idea what is really happening in the dies. I have seen plenty of bad ammo made by guys like that. On the other hand, if one has a little bit of patience and takes the time to fully understand what the machine is doing, as well as keeping in mind the basics of reloading, then by all means go ahead.

Yes some of us have gotten past the Stone Age. Others are still muddling around.