I just purchased a very nice S&W 25-2 6.5". I have loaded for .44 spcl., ,44 magnum, .357 mag and .38 spcl., but have never reloaded for the the .45acp, nor any other auto cartridge for that matter. Some questions: This gun is so pristine It will only be used for outdoor range use,and I plan to use purchased cast lead bullets. Any suggestions regarding bullet diameters, lead hardness or style or manafacturer. I see TVB gets good recommendations on the forum. I would prefer to work with Unique oe Bullseye,..Thanks a lot for any suggestions.

Julian

Standard target loads is:
3.6- 4.0gn Bullseye, 200gr LSWC, 1.25"

Taper Crimped

I would go with the full moon clips and not mess with the auto rims. The more you shoot this revolver the more you will love it, its a great handgun and I like the 6.5 barrel length.

I'm so lazy I don't even mess with moon clips. Just load the ACP brass and punch out the empties with a pencil. I have a pre-25 and it works great. No misfires so far!

john browning's original load for he 45acp was 5gr. bullseye under a 230gr LRN bullet.

i have been using 4.7gr of bullseye, with careful attention to dimensionally perfect rounds. they shoot REAL nice in my colt 1911.

good luck!

45ACP revolvers are the ticket my friend!

I have two target loads and I use them in both a 1911 and my M625JM.

1: 200gr LSWC H&G #68, cast here at home with BAC lube(or my own homemade concoction.) over 4.0gr of Bullseye or 5.3gr AA#2. Both loads are great for target shooting.

2: 230gr TMJ (Ranier or Berry) over 4.7gr Bullseye or 5.2gr AA#2.

Both of those loads will shoot real nice out of the longer barrel you have.

If you use moon clips you need to get something to "demoon" the empties with. I made my own from a 12" section of 3/8" PVC pipe. I'll look for a picture and get it posted.

Bullets that are too big, mostly lead, will cause some consternation with these revolvers. The chambers are made for the smaller jacketed bullets for the most part. Don't get me wrong, .452" bullets will work real nice. Depending on the throat size, they may need to have a short OAL so the driving band doesn't hit. I have even used some .453" bullets (shot as unsized)without too much trouble. The last driving band was at the case mouth though.

Always taper crimp and not too much. The 45ACP, not having any rim headspaces on the case mouth.
Then you wouldn't have to use clips like was mentioned above.

You will like it. There are tons of combinations available for the 45ACP.

Have fun, be safe.

I will have to disagree here. I prefer .45AR in the revolvers both 25 and 625. .45ACP's work, but I don't have a good reason to use them except for faster reloading. Revolvers are made for rimmed cartridges. Just MHO. Either way they are a helluva lot of fun to shoot.

The AR case sounds interesting as I have no autoloading handguns to load for. Does the AR still headspace on the case mouth or does it headspace on the rim? Can bullets with a crimping groove be roll crimped instead of taper crimped?

Your 25-2 has a chamber in each cylinder hole, just like an auto has. The cases will properly headspace on these rims in the cylinder, so moonclips are not an utter necessity as in some of the later 25 variants. The .45 ACP is a very easy round to load. The only difference in the auto rim is the rim. If you have no brass, and don't have access to free range brass, you might as well buy autorim. The standard ACP is much more readily available, and probably cheaper, but you may also need to purchase moonclips, and tools to load and unload them.

Now, bullets: Many, but not all 25-2's have oversize throats, and do not group well with cast bullets. They were built to shoot ball ammo in bullseye competition back before there were a lot of accurized 1911's around. I am fortunate that my 25-2 has throats around .4515-.452. Many are .454-456, and need the larger bullets intended for .45 Colts. Unlike auto rounds, you are not constrained to any particular bullet design or weight. As long as it will fit in the cylinder, you can use larger bullets normally uses in the .45 Colt.

I use the same load in my 25-2 that I use in my 1911's: 3.8-4.2 gr of Clays under a 200 gr LSWC cast fairly hard. The 25-2 has fairly shallow rifling intended for ball ammo, and if a lead bullet is used, it needs to be harder than swaged bullets. That is to say it needs to be hard enough to grip the rifling, but not so hard it won't obturate and seal the bore. I use water quenched wheel weight metal and get satisfactory results. Most commercial cast stuff is at least that hard.

Yes, they headspace on the rim. They also can be roll crimped, just not too much as it may bulge the case.

Bullet selection is one reason to use the AR case. With them headspacing on the rim, you can make some pretty neat revolver rounds with them!

Take a look at what I have run through my M625JM:


And:



From 200gr LSWC to 270gr LSWC. You can't do that in an auto!

My personal favorite, a 240gr LSWC from a H&G #502 mold, in 45ACP or AR brass:

IF - again IF - you have no plans to get a 1911, then the AR cases aren't a bad move. You will save the cost of moon clips and the tool to de-moon brass.

However, moon clips are the reason most people who bought that gun did so, because they greatly accelerate loading and unloading. That's why they are used for action pistol competitions.

As for loads, I'm not a Bullseye fan. Yes, it is one of THE classic powders, but I think 231 and WST are cleaner.

I also prefer moly-coated bullets, such a Precision's, to plain lubed lead. MUCH cleaner and the increase in costs is minimal. I like the RNFP profile, so as to have commonality of ammo w/my autoloaders. Besides, the shoulders on SWC's catch on the chambers when using both moon clips and speed loaders, defeating the advantage.

I've got a couple hundred rounds of AR brass for my 625-3, but I use regular ACP brass far more often because it's just so easy to pick up at the range and I have so darn much of it. I tend to use the AR brass for loadings that I want to make sure never find their way into a semiauto. Like the Keith load throwing 255-grainers at 950 fps from a 3" barrel - just a might warmer than I want through a semi.

Frankly, it sounds like everything that you're planning on doing sounds great. I use .452" cast bullets from TVB, though I've used Colorado Cast and Penn Bullets as well. I don't worry about lead hardness, as these makers all do fine with the powders you're considering. No problems with leading (with those powders - warm Green Dot loads, OTOH . . . ) and I run bullets with Unique up to 1050 fps from my 3" tube.

I'm a big fan of the Lee Factory Crimp Die in the .45 ACP. I purely love the .45 ACP out of a revolver, and I hope that you do as well.

__________________
Now go make God proud...

Thanks everone for your assistance. I guess if I buy auto-rim brass I will need the proper shellholder. I really like the Lee factory crimp die and use it for .44 and .358 cartridges. I usually prefer RCBS dies but was considering Lee dies for this project. Any problems with the Lee dies?

Not any yet. Of course, they have only done about 100,000 rounds so far!

Less than $30 too. Now, that seems good to me!

Even though they are carbide, brass (steel cases too)gets a shot of Hornady One Shot per 500 or so. It helps.

I have used the .45 acp in revolvers for a few years now. A 1917, 4 1937's, 2 25-2's, 2 625's and right now a 22-4. The 1917's don't do well for me with lead bullets as a rule. One or two did, with the 225 grain Truncated cone bullet seated well out. The 5" barrel 25-2 would shoot 1" groups at 25 yards with 200 grain LSWC and 5.2 grains W231 powder. The 6.5" barreled 25-2 was only shot with 200 SWC jacketed combat match bullets. The 22-4 shoots about anything well and really shines with a 200 grains LSWC and W231 powder. I had the misfortune of buying 625's(both Model 1988's) that were factory flawed(both) and they were a bad experience from the word go. However, my son in law bought a later version of the 625 sometime after year 2000 and it shot just fine. I have also found the 255 grain SWC designed for the old .45 long colt sized to .452 to work very nicely for the 25-2 and 22-4 with a healthy dose of green dot powder or Unique. I even tried some 255 grain LSWC's sized .454 and a hardness of around 12 and could not tell much difference because of the sizing. I use both regular .45acp brass and the AR brass. I actually prefer the AR but that's because I'm a little lazy and have arthritus in my hands making it tougher all the time to deal with loading and unloading the acp brass in the moon clips. You really can't loose either way. Your going to like your revolver. If not, there are a lot of people waiting for it to go up for sale. James

Itlooks like a revolver for auto-pistol cartridges is far more versatile than I thought. That 240 lswc has a huge meplat and would certainly do anything my .44 spcl. can.
Julian

smith, I like the looks of that 240 grain bullet. Good wide meplat like that out to really smack bowling pins around, also should make a real good defensive round. I have never shot that bullet but it looks like it might be even better than the old 255 grain swc long colt bullet. I am beginning to become a fan of wide meplat and wide driving band bullets. I wish I knew where I could buy a small supply of those. James

I LOVE my two 625's (5" 625-6 Model 1989 and a 4" 625-8 Jerry Miculek Special) simply because of their performance. Extremely accurate, easy to load for, and VERY versatile.

Mine both have cylinder throats .4515 and handle .452" bullets VERY well. They have never seen anything except my home cast bullets.

I shoot mostly H&G #130's or Saeco #68's cast of WW's+2% tin air cooled. I use Lars White Label Red Carnauba lube. I've just started to play with Lyman 454424's (Keith 255 gr SWC).



These are H&G #130 cast bullets (most used in my two 625's)



Shot standing at 25 yards.



There is just nothing better for genuine shooting pleasure than an S&W Model 25 or 625 with correct cylinder dimensions and good cast bullets.

Dale53

Dale53 I sure wouldn't want to meet up on the wrong side of you while your packing that gun. That looks like some good shooting.
Cary

Aw-w. shucks, Cary, it's just good Smith & Wesson equipment. "It's them 625's, I tell ya!"

Thanks for the kind words.

Dale53

I finally got to slug the cylnder throats of my 25-2 and they measure .456. A local bullet caster sells plated bullets in 200grn and 230grn that are a pencil push through the throats. I don't find a cast bullet advertised that is over .454. Are the larger throats going to cause a problem with regular 230 fmj.?
Not sure which way to go from here. Any suggestions are very much appreciated.

Julian

You need bigger bullets. However, finding them in .45 ACP designs may NOT be so easy. This is just one of the reasons that I cast my own bullets ( I do NOT cast for others).

First of all, I would try some .454 bullets. Be careful of design limitations (for instance, you might be interested in trying some hollow base round flat bullets for the .45 Colt but the hollow base extends the bullet too far into that small capacity case creating the potential for all sorts of problems). There ARE a number of suppliers of .45 Colt bullets at .454" that might work however. The 454424 Lyman bullets often cast over .456". You might call one ( or four or five) of the regular cast bullet suppliers and ask. Sometimes they will do special orders if you order a bunch.

John Taffin has an excellent article on the 25-2 on his web site (including discussing the big throats) but his web site has been down for a couple of days "www.sixguns.com"

Good luck!
Dale53

No offense but, I find it hard to believe that those plated bullets are actually that big. How did you measure the throats?
What did you use to measure the bullets?

Pin gauges for the cylinder, precision micrometer for bullets are the best way to check sizes. Calipers are not a good way to do precision work. They are expedient, that is true, and economical.

Most plated bullets are only going to measure in the area of .452" and would be a "fall through" rather than a push through in a throat that was .004" bigger.

If you can find a commercial caster that can size to .454", or bigger, and has a softer alloy, you may be good to go. If not it sounds like a great time to start casting your own.

Many of the Lee 45 Colt molds will throw large bullets, depending on the alloy used. I had a 45ACP 228gr RN mold that threw bullets at .455" with wheel weights. If you get into casting you will never be out of bullets either!

What does the bore slug? The other possibility is to send the firearm back to Smith to have a smaller throated cylinder installed.

Where to go from here? I would try a 45 Colt bullet sized at .454" and see what I got.

Nice shootin', Dale!

Do you resize the 454424's down .452 or shoot them at .454?

Thanks!

gwalchmai;
Thanks for the kind words. I have sized the over size 454424 but at /452
they are sized too much. I have sold the mould (pending funds) and will try to find a smaller one (452424). In the meantime, I will be working with a 452664 RF that works quite well in my Bisley Vaquero.

Dale53

If that's your only .45acp, then Auto Rim might well be a good choice for you.

I've got three .45acp autos, so I just don't want to get into one MORE cartridge case.

Hey guys, just wanted to throw my two pennies in. I shoot 3 colt autos in 45 ACP and 2 S&W 25-2's. I LOVE the 45 ACP as after several years of reloading I have my pet loads for these guns and do enjoy them very much. As of late I have been shooting the revolvers more than the auto's, just because of my mood I guess, and I can find my brass real easy. I never knew about the different bore diameters with the S&W 25-2s before I was on this web site. I did measure mine via the old slug the barrel method and found both of my revolvers to measure just under .452 and I am happy with that. One of the revolvers is a 6 inch and the other is a 6 1/2 inch. I use ONLY the 45 ACP brass as I never want to get a 45 AR case mixed up in one of my automatics. I like the full moon clips as I can reload all six chambers so fast its not even funny. I have had very good accuracy with the 230 gr LRN bullet buy am also impressed with the 200 gr also. I use 4.3 gr of Bullseye and also 4.7 gr of Bullseye. The autos like the 4.3 and do real well with it, better than my abilities. Thanks for all the disscussion on the 25-2 revolver as I am leaning more and more everyday, most of which comes from you fine folks. I also am set up to do my own bullet casting (I have all the equipment) but have not done it yet. I will be posting in the future with many questions I am sure. Keep working with your 25-2 and you will find the load it likes and then dont ever get rid of it. I sold a model 29 14 or so years ago that was a real shooter, and have never found another I liked as much as that one. Good shooting to you all and be safe.