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Old 10-08-2021, 09:42 PM
kenjen kenjen is offline
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Went to the local gun shop, that basically tuned into an internet (Gunbroker) dealer. The shop is only open to the public 4 hours on Wednesday and Saturday. Now I have been going to this place for over 40yrs. Always fully stocked with firearms and reloading supplies and with the best prices around. So I get there 15mins. before they open and wait in line to get in. The place has everything you want, no shortages on anything, powder, primers, bullets. every kind of ammo from 22s up to 45-70. A lot of hand guns, shotguns and hunting rifles plus AR's. So you would think things are coming back to normal. WRONG all of the reloading components and ammo are well over double or higher the price of a year ago. It's sad that it will cost you $25 to sight in your hunting rifle and that is if you only shot 10 rounds.
I got 2lbs of powder, one box of (100 all that they would let you buy) small pistol primers, one box of 50 Barns 6.5 bullets and a flat of shotgun shells. $215. when will it end or is this the new normal....
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Old 10-08-2021, 09:49 PM
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Welcome to the post-Covid 19 world.
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Old 10-08-2021, 10:09 PM
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It will end when people stop paying outrageous prices for stuff. If retailers can sell all their primers for $.10 a piece and $40 for a pound of powder why would they sell for less?
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Old 10-08-2021, 10:34 PM
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I stopped at one of the local dealers today that had changed owners a few months ago. I rarely stopped in when the original couple owned it as they rarely had anything I was interested in. The new owners are an older couple in their 70’s.

The counters were full of new and used autos like Rugers and a nice colt challenger. Polymer guns were in the center case and the last large case was revolvers. I went in looking for a Colt detective special and by golly they had a nice condition nickel one. It was a 3rd issue and appeared to be used but good shape. I didn’t even ask to look at it when I saw the price, $1850!!! Holy cow!!! I’m no expert but another dealer had and cerakoted in good shape but not quite as nice a couple months ago for $445. My uneducated guess would have been $650-700 max if in new condition and it wasn’t. The Colt Challenger was in excellent condition and they were asking $850 for it. I’m guessing that’s way over priced too but I’m no expert on these.

I walked over to the reloading supplies and they had several overpriced bottles of powder and PRIMERS. They had quite a few 100 round trays of assorted primers all in old CCI sleeves. I’m guessing they were 40 plus years old and were priced at $25/100.

On the way out the older gentleman that was the owner asked me if he could help me. I refrained from saying what I was thinking, I was thinking “I’ll be back for the bankruptcy sale.”

I stopped in a couple other shops and they’re busting out at the seams with guns and the shelves have a good selection of ammo, all over priced but not as bad as it was a couple months ago.

This week I bought 2000 small pistol primers @ $75/1000 and 1000 large pistol at $68/1000. They’re still higher than a couple years ago but not ridiculous. I expect them to get down to $50-55/1000 but that’s a guess. Everything is getting more expensive now (gosh can’t figure why ;~) ) so even though I have primers I’m stocking up. I’d say in 5 years we’ll be telling folks how we used to buy primers in the old days for $75/1000.

Powder is fairly available now and available at retail prices. I don’t have a very bright outlook on future inflated prices of anything, gas, gasoline, food, ammo, guns or anything for that matter. So I’m stocking up little by little. I’m trying to stockpile enough to carry me through the rest of my shooting years.
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Old 10-09-2021, 02:36 AM
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I agree this will "end" when we refuse to buy at the highly inflated prices being charged today. The problem is if you have no primers and ammo is unavailable you have only 2 choices, spend the extra money or don't shoot. Neither of the options are any good but it is a fact. (sadly)
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Old 10-09-2021, 02:56 AM
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Here in central PA, firearm availability is way up, as compared to say a year ago, as is ammo availability - But, as other have noted, so are prices, especially on ammo and components. As a life long shooting enthusiast, I am thankful I have managed to accumulate enough ammo and components to probably last me the rest of my life. My EX used to tell me it was crazy to keep buying "that stuff" when I already had so much. Not so crazy now...

Larry
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Old 10-09-2021, 04:40 AM
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Once upon a time, the manufacturers who make reloading supplies used to be competitors in a healthy free market economy. Now, a disturbing number of them are subsidiaries of bigger corporations such as Vista Outdoor, who own Remington, Federal, CCI, RCBS, Alliant, and others.
Do you really think they're not gaming the market?
(Hint: look up their stock prices and track their stock price history over the past five years or so, as well as projected earnings over the next few quarters.)
To make things worse, Vista Outdoor has many subsidiaries outside of the shooting industry. They took a bit of a hit when a consumer boycott was called due to their support of the NRA. It affected some of their general outdoor market share to REI and a few other retailers.
So, for a variety of reasons I don't think their share of the market is particularly healthy. (Look what's happened to Cabela's since the Bass Pro merger!)
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Old 10-09-2021, 07:38 AM
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With the government issuing more and more currency, expect prices to stay high. This is a principle of economics, when you have more dollars chasing the same amount of goods, the cost of the goods go up commensurate with the volume of dollars.
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Old 10-09-2021, 08:48 AM
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I learned my lesson after Sandy Hook and decided to stock up to provide enough primers and powder to last 20 years or more. Average cost for primers was 30 dollars per thousand and with Arthritis cutting back on what I shoot and the total volume shot I have enough primers for handgun or rifle to last me the rest of my life.

However, in part due to that Arthritis, I took up Sporting Shotgun shooting. Mainly Skeet but also do Trap and Sporting Clays. Starting shooting Skeet competitively last April and a typical Registered Shoot means shooting 100 rounds in 410, 28, 20, and 12 gauges. Add in Skeet Doubles and you have a 500 round weekend. I did not do anything about Shotgun supplies after Sandy Hook, didn't start shooting a shotgun until 2018. Needless to say Powder and Primers are a real concern and shot keeps going up and it's getting a bit hard to find. Hopefully things will clear up in the coming year because I am getting down to my last 8 pounders for 28, 20, and 12 gauges. As for 410, that I have some stock of because this caliber uses powders suitable for 357 Magnum and 300 BLK. Note, shooting a shotgun competitively is pretty much the same as buying a BOAT. There is always another shotgun to acquire and feeding that shotgun can get as expensive as filling the fuel tank on a boat. On the plus side it's the most fun I've had shooting anything. It's always a challenge to hit your target and when you do you get to see it explode into dust.
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Old 10-09-2021, 09:34 AM
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At least this old man has memories of what a gun shop was like in the mid 1960's ... You think my grand children will believe me when I tell them how you walked in and the shelves were filled with guns , ammo , reloading supplies , reloading equiptment , bullet moulds dies , casting alloy , holsters , belts ... A onsite Gunsmith !!!
Heck ... Thinking back ...
I Don't Believe It ... it was all just a DREAM !
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Old 10-09-2021, 09:36 AM
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America is running out of a lot of stuff according to the talking heads. Anything that comes from china is sitting on a container ship or stuck at the dock. Shortage of drivers too. If it’s made here it’s backordered. Either no factory workers or no raw materials. They want you to buy Christmas gifts and decor now because by Christmas it will be unobtanium. Are the companies using the shortages to jack up prices? Sure they are, they have to make up for last year’s shutdown losses. Look for gas and airline tickets to go way up. Theres no end to it I’m afraid.
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Old 10-09-2021, 09:59 AM
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IMHO to most of the people out there the word "gun" brings up a mental image of a black, plastic 9mm, concealed carry and expensive boxes of bullets.
They ain't like us old timers who think of shotguns and revolvers and plinking with 22's. (In my last CC class I was basically the only one there with a revolver - out of the 25-30 participants.)
I think what we are seeing is the new norm. We'll never stock up for chump change again.

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Old 10-09-2021, 10:01 AM
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I stopped by Ga Arms this week for some .41 caliber cast bullets. The bullets were $30/300.

They had a few primers, Unis-Ginex brand small rifle and small pistol @ $80/K. I also saw a few 100 packs of CCI 250 marked @ $20ea? I hope this was a mistake.

Powder prices were still high. I think the lowest price I saw was $40/lb, many were still $50+. No Alliant offerings at all.

I hope I'm wrong, but I don't see it getting much better for a while.

I may be complaining, but I'm still grateful to have Ga. Arms as a source.
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Old 10-09-2021, 10:29 AM
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Originally Posted by ArchAngelCD View Post
I agree this will "end" when we refuse to buy at the highly inflated prices being charged today. The problem is if you have no primers and ammo is unavailable you have only 2 choices, spend the extra money or don't shoot. Neither of the options are any good but it is a fact. (sadly)
Sounds like a reasonable assessment.

We need to buy toilet paper, and we need to buy milk and bread, and we need to pay our mortgage, but we DON'T NEED to go shooting. We just WANT to.

If everyone keeps paying the inflated prices, they will stay inflated. If EVERYONE stops buying $100 primers the prices will come down in a Hurry. Emphasis on everyone. We need to stick together. The problem is the some of us are hurting the rest of us.

If you're bored because you can't go shooting, go fishing instead, take a little kid to a sports game, volunteer for meals on wheels or go polish your S&Ws.

Remember Pogo's famous quote....
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Old 10-09-2021, 11:03 AM
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Supply and demand, stop the panic buying and prices will come down.
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Old 10-09-2021, 12:09 PM
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I agree this will "end" when we refuse to buy at the highly inflated prices being charged today. The problem is if you have no primers and ammo is unavailable you have only 2 choices, spend the extra money or don't shoot. Neither of the options are any good but it is a fact. (sadly)
My wife is always telling me to loosen my wallet strings, for her.

Maybe I should break down and follow her advise...... for me.
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Old 10-09-2021, 01:59 PM
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Sounds like a reasonable assessment.

We need to buy toilet paper, and we need to buy milk and bread, and we need to pay our mortgage, but we DON'T NEED to go shooting. We just WANT to.

If everyone keeps paying the inflated prices, they will stay inflated. If EVERYONE stops buying $100 primers the prices will come down in a Hurry. Emphasis on everyone. We need to stick together. The problem is the some of us are hurting the rest of us.

If you're bored because you can't go shooting, go fishing instead, take a little kid to a sports game, volunteer for meals on wheels or go polish your S&Ws.

Remember Pogo's famous quote....
We donít know their cost of production. Cut back on what you buy and they cut production or stop producing because thereís no money in making them. Then what have you accomplished.

Everyoneís assuming theyíre gouging but costs of raw materials, labor, energy and transportation have all increased.

I just looked at the cost of oil and natural gas last year. Oil was negative in cost and natural gas was 20 cents per unit compared to over $6.50 dollars now. Oil hangs in around $80 for wti and brent around $82 a barrel now. This is part of the reason weíre seeing prices going up and staying up. Donít forget producers having new restrictions during the pandemic that crippled production.

I donít believe manufactures are gouging and donít believe in stopping buying to drive prices down. Distributors may be gouging but we donít know for sure.
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Old 10-15-2021, 06:45 PM
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I would buy CCI lpp at 50.00/brick but only a couple. I surely wouldn’t pay 100.00/brick and don’t call me shirley.
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Old 10-15-2021, 07:26 PM
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Still have 300 Winchester LR primers from the Clinton scare and haven't participated in another phony shortage since.
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Old 10-15-2021, 07:30 PM
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Originally Posted by kenjen View Post
Went to the local gun shop, that basically tuned into an internet (Gunbroker) dealer. The shop is only open to the public 4 hours on Wednesday and Saturday. Now I have been going to this place for over 40yrs. Always fully stocked with firearms and reloading supplies and with the best prices around. So I get there 15mins. before they open and wait in line to get in. The place has everything you want, no shortages on anything, powder, primers, bullets. every kind of ammo from 22s up to 45-70. A lot of hand guns, shotguns and hunting rifles plus AR's. So you would think things are coming back to normal. WRONG all of the reloading components and ammo are well over double or higher the price of a year ago. It's sad that it will cost you $25 to sight in your hunting rifle and that is if you only shot 10 rounds.
I got 2lbs of powder, one box of (100 all that they would let you buy) small pistol primers, one box of 50 Barns 6.5 bullets and a flat of shotgun shells. $215. when will it end or is this the new normal....
It sounds to me like the store owner has his stuff priced reasonably, if customers are waiting in line to get in.

Last year's price means nothing; today's price what matters. If you wanted stuff last year, you should have bought it then.
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Old 10-15-2021, 07:31 PM
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Cut back on what you buy and they cut production or stop producing because thereís no money in making them. Then what have you accomplished.

I donít believe manufactures are gouging and donít believe in stopping buying to drive prices down. Distributors may be gouging but we donít know for sure.
Right now they are oversold. Stop buying long enough for the shelves to be completely replenished (so that the distributor's orders slow down) and the price will come down. Historical demand indicates that nobody will cut production.

I don't believe the manufacturer's are price gouging either. The distributors and the retail shops are the ones that are taking advantage of us. But, in their defense, its supply and demand. So when the demand GREATLY exceeds their supply, why not take advantage and raise your prices.

I mean, after its all over, we soon forget. Just look at CTD. We all swore to boycott them, but look they are still in bizness......LOL.

Like I said before, we met the enemy and they are us.
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Old 10-15-2021, 07:34 PM
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I always sign in and jump into these ammo/components threads. I always say the same thing i.e. it's a contrived shortage. I also say that the ONLY way to beat the system is to NOT BUY. THIS TIME, I have to mention that a fairly well know gun-guy mentioned that he recently returned from a hunt in Africa where he was able to visit a LARGE gun store. There was NO SHORTAGE of ammo or components AND when he asked the owner about it, the owner said that 'if we don't have it in stock, we can absolutely get it in two to three weeks'. This is the first time my belief in the contrived shortage has proved-out. DON'T BUY and DON'T SHOOT if you don't have the ammo/fixins. It's the only way to win this one.
J.
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Old 10-15-2021, 08:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by kenjen View Post
Went to the local gun shop, that basically tuned into an internet (Gunbroker) dealer. The shop is only open to the public 4 hours on Wednesday and Saturday. Now I have been going to this place for over 40yrs. Always fully stocked with firearms and reloading supplies and with the best prices around. So I get there 15mins. before they open and wait in line to get in. The place has everything you want, no shortages on anything, powder, primers, bullets. every kind of ammo from 22s up to 45-70. A lot of hand guns, shotguns and hunting rifles plus AR's. So you would think things are coming back to normal. WRONG all of the reloading components and ammo are well over double or higher the price of a year ago. It's sad that it will cost you $25 to sight in your hunting rifle and that is if you only shot 10 rounds.
I got 2lbs of powder, one box of (100 all that they would let you buy) small pistol primers, one box of 50 Barns 6.5 bullets and a flat of shotgun shells. $215. when will it end or is this the new normal....
It will end when people stop paying inflated prices.
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Old 10-15-2021, 08:44 PM
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Originally Posted by Johnnu2 View Post
I always sign in and jump into these ammo/components threads. I always say the same thing i.e. it's a contrived shortage. I also say that the ONLY way to beat the system is to NOT BUY. THIS TIME, I have to mention that a fairly well know gun-guy mentioned that he recently returned from a hunt in Africa where he was able to visit a LARGE gun store. There was NO SHORTAGE of ammo or components AND when he asked the owner about it, the owner said that 'if we don't have it in stock, we can absolutely get it in two to three weeks'. This is the first time my belief in the contrived shortage has proved-out. DON'T BUY and DON'T SHOOT if you don't have the ammo/fixins. It's the only way to win this one.
J.
Last year there were 39.9 million guns sold and in the first 6 months of this year 22.25 million. Thatís over 62 million guns to feed. Not all were new owners but these all need ammo. If each owner buys 2 50 round boxes it comes to 6.2 billion rounds that need produced. Iím guessing the demand was much higher. Thatís not even counting those of us stockpiling ammo and primers.

I donít believe for a second that the shortage is artificial
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Old 10-15-2021, 09:19 PM
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I stopped by Ga Arms this week for some .41 caliber cast bullets. The bullets were $30/300.

They had a few primers, Unis-Ginex brand small rifle and small pistol @ $80/K. I also saw a few 100 packs of CCI 250 marked @ $20ea? I hope this was a mistake.

Powder prices were still high. I think the lowest price I saw was $40/lb, many were still $50+. No Alliant offerings at all.

I hope I'm wrong, but I don't see it getting much better for a while.

I may be complaining, but I'm still grateful to have Ga. Arms as a source.
One of the few exceptions I used to make to my proscription on buying factory ammo was the occasional box or two of 32 S&W L and 32-20 from Georgia Arms. They were very reasonably priced and there was a nice JHP bullet they used for their 32s. I liked to save them if needed for "social work". Unfortunately they didn't have any at gunshows where I've seen them for the last several years, long before the current "scare".

Froggie
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Old 10-15-2021, 11:01 PM
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Originally Posted by .38SuperMan View Post
We donít know their cost of production. Cut back on what you buy and they cut production or stop producing because thereís no money in making them. Then what have you accomplished.

Everyoneís assuming theyíre gouging but costs of raw materials, labor, energy and transportation have all increased.

I just looked at the cost of oil and natural gas last year. Oil was negative in cost and natural gas was 20 cents per unit compared to over $6.50 dollars now. Oil hangs in around $80 for wti and brent around $82 a barrel now. This is part of the reason weíre seeing prices going up and staying up. Donít forget producers having new restrictions during the pandemic that crippled production.

I donít believe manufactures are gouging and donít believe in stopping buying to drive prices down. Distributors may be gouging but we donít know for sure.
All I can say for sure is that nothing else is going for DOUBLE or TRIPLE the price it was two years ago. 40% more, 50% more, sure. But not 300% more...
Nobody can convince me it isn't a case of "whatever the market will bear". While the stuff is in short supply and high demand they are making up for the lean times.
Glad I have a 20 year sullply of everything I need except for some 7.62 bullets and some LRPs. I never reloaded that round before because the steel Russian ammo was so cheap. It ain't no more and it may soon be nearly impossible to get, so I'm starting to roll my own in that caliber too. May have to trade some stuff I have plenty of to get what I need.
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Old 10-15-2021, 11:29 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ArchAngelCD View Post
I agree this will "end" when we refuse to buy at the highly inflated prices being charged today. The problem is if you have no primers and ammo is unavailable you have only 2 choices, spend the extra money or don't shoot. Neither of the options are any good but it is a fact. (sadly)
Well said... So tired of all the "excuses" for the current problem. CTD is a example. Texas AG accuses Cheaper Than Dirt of price gouging during pandemic It is a free market system. I have seen the ebb and flow several times and have reacted accordingly. What really astounds me is when things get better people go back to the gougers to do business. REALLY? CTD? Come on.
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Old 10-16-2021, 12:03 AM
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All I can say for sure is that nothing else is going for DOUBLE or TRIPLE the price it was two years ago. 40% more, 50% more, sure. But not 300% more...
Nobody can convince me it isn't a case of "whatever the market will bear". While the stuff is in short supply and high demand they are making up for the lean times.
Glad I have a 20 year sullply of everything I need except for some 7.62 bullets and some LRPs. I never reloaded that round before because the steel Russian ammo was so cheap. It ain't no more and it may soon be nearly impossible to get, so I'm starting to roll my own in that caliber too. May have to trade some stuff I have plenty of to get what I need.
But most things are not subject to the hoarding that ammo/components are. Nobody hoards washing machines. Lumber has come down some but it tripled. Steel doubled.

They'll come down. We may think of these items as necessary but let's face it, these are discretionary purchases. At some point enough buyers will just give up.

In order to believe this is all contrived I'd have to believe that there's capacity just sitting idle. I don't.
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Old 10-16-2021, 12:48 AM
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But most things are not subject to the hoarding that ammo/components are. Nobody hoards washing machines. Lumber has come down some but it tripled. Steel doubled.

They'll come down. We may think of these items as necessary but let's face it, these are discretionary purchases. At some point enough buyers will just give up.

In order to believe this is all contrived I'd have to believe that there's capacity just sitting idle. I don't.
Steel & lumber didn't stay at 200%-300% increased prices for long as supply got closer to being back in line with demand. Still not quite "there" yet, but getting there.
Not quite sure where you got the "contrived" (conspiracy angle) from what I posted. I said that while the supply is low and demand is high they are charging 2x-3x pre-panic prices because they can - a.k.a. "whatever the market will bear".
They're putting a huge markup on the price RIGHT NOW due to the demand outstripping supply - just like they discounted the heck out of everything AFTER the end of the last shortage and before this one started. Because at that point the opposite was true. The supply was exceeding the demand.
It is really basic econ 101 with the typical profit motivation and a touch of greed mixed in - which is all just normal human behavior.
At some point the guns/ammo supply will catch up with demand too - and then the prices will fall. Just like so many times in the past.
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Last edited by BC38; 10-16-2021 at 12:53 AM.
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Old 10-16-2021, 08:47 AM
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Well said... So tired of all the "excuses" for the current problem. CTD is a example. Texas AG accuses Cheaper Than Dirt of price gouging during pandemic It is a free market system. I have seen the ebb and flow several times and have reacted accordingly. What really astounds me is when things get better people go back to the gougers to do business. REALLY? CTD? Come on.
Not. One. Cent.

CTD could be the last place to source components, Iíd rather take up knitting.
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Old 10-16-2021, 09:12 AM
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I ration what Iíve got, shoot one cas match a month with a prematch check of my ammo and guns and maybe 50 rds of .22s. [200 cf- 50 rf and 25 sg] I enjoy shooting my .22 target rifles at 60 yd steel from my deck every so often. Havenít HAD to buy anything in a while but did pick up powder and #9 shot at a Raleigh gunshow earlier this year and bought some 30 cal projectiles through GB. Iíd rather shoot my ammo with friends at a cas match than blow through ammo at the range.

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Old 10-16-2021, 09:39 AM
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At my age and physical condition I will continue shooting as much as I desire because next week I might not be able to. I buy what I need when I can get it and am pretty sure this shortage situation may last longer than I can wait.
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Old 10-16-2021, 10:22 AM
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I wonder how many primers are sitting off the coast of California waiting to be unloaded? New gun owners will pay pretty much what ever a shop wants for their first box of ammo. American ammo manufacturers are not producing many primers for resale. The few that are produced, are being bought up by flippers for resale. People who own guns need ammo, and there are a bunch of new gun owners. People who shoot a lot, reload and they need powder and primers. All this demand must be making the firearm and ammo/ reloading component manufactures wealthy. It's also creating jobs, where the companies can find people willing to work. This country is in a big mess economically.
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