Working on my first 38sp loads, 158gr bullets, 4.7gr unique powder, using some old Herters "Verchromt" dies.


So far so good.

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Actually not so easy to see from that above angle. Almost looks like you may have bullet lube on the case mouth but again hard to see from this picture.

You'll want to flare them enough so that the bullet definitely doesn't get shaved when you seat it. Some bullet lube can and does happen, it's not a big deal.

You want the finished round to drop full in and drop fully out of any/every/all chambers under it's own weight. Try multiple revolvers if you have them.

Thanks, the top one is what I settled on after number 2 and three were a little off, the sizer die fits them well so far.

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As said, the angle is a little steep and it looks like they're somewhat different.

To me, the one on the right looks OK, the far left looks like it could be seated deeper and maybe doesn't have much "roll" in the roll crimp.

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Just Say No - To Social Media

Looks a little bit lite to me!

In this one, the second round down doesn't seem to have any crimp at all. Maybe it's just reflections, shadows and aging eyes.

I'm wondering if your cases are all the same length and your crimping and seating in one step.

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Hard to tell much from the photos, but I've always found the best crimps, whether rolled, tapered, or some other combination, have been the crimps that were just enough to prevent bullet movement - and no more. That's the best way I know to describe the best crimp.

Light, moderate, and heavy mean different amounts of crimp to different people. Such terms aren't worth much if you're trying to put together a good, accurate load.

In .38 Special, what we want in a crimp is a loaded round that chambers easily. If you would be shooting them from an ultralight snub revolver of very little weight then we are asking a little more from the crimp.

When you transfer this knowledge and experience to .357, .41, .44 Magnum, or anything big, high pressure and high velocity, our crimp becomes FAR MORE important and does a couple of important tasks for us.

Yes, one step on these, working to see which is best for me. I should check the case lengths better.



Thanks

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The only way I have been able to tell if my crimping was good is after firing them for precision, and also checking if they hold during recoil. If precision is good, you know the crimps are spot on. If the groups are off you can just blame it on the crimps haha

I like to seat/crimp in one step but it requires consistent case lengths, for sure. Even in separate steps, varying case lengths give inconsistent results.

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Just Say No - To Social Media

Understood, I'm beginning to realize the case lengths are all over the place and it seems like the 38s are way worse than the 32 longs I am used to loading.


Thanks.

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I wonder if those who took/take home the gold with 38s in bullseye competition trimmed their brass?

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You may wish to consider what your ultimate goal is while you trying to figure out exactly -HOW- you wish to go about this.

There are plenty of hardcore match shooters that use mixed brass. Most folks never, and I mean never trim handgun brass. Some guys clean primer pockets and most do not.

While it is absolutely true that your crimp will vary along with inconsistent case lengths, there is an allowable range for everything, and you'll have to find that happy place.

In 32 years, I have never once trimmed a piece of pistol or revolver brass with the exception of .30 Carbine from a Ruger Blackhawk, which is a different animal. I've rolled 6,600+ rounds of ammo so far in 2021 and I couldn't ask for better performance from my ammo.

I don't trim handgun brass and I don't want to start. You may feel differently at your bench.

My F-I-L is a 2 time National Champ in Police Combat (38 Special) and never trimmed a case for practice or competition!

Lite crimp in the center of the groove, only needs to hold the bullet in the case. (spacing is even less critical using a taper crimp die; I use a 9mm or 380 crimp die.)

If you get the case mouth to far up the crimp groove in a roll crimp, you van bulge a shoulder or even crush the case.

Ivan

What ever happened to "Understanding the Mechanics of What You Are Doing" ? Consistent crimp requires consistent case length. How much crimp does 38 Spl target ammo require? Remove case flare from case mouth so round drops fully into the cylinder.

How the grip is held, how the trigger is squeezed, sight alignment all have more effect on group size than worrying hours about case mouth crimp.

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S&WHF 366

Trimming handgun brass is right up there with bear calibers and shooting +P in granddad's revolver ... zealots on all sides.

The fact remains - if your brass is not close to the same length, your crimp will be inconsistent. We each have to decide what's acceptable. For the non-champion level quantities I make, I can take the time to check case lengths.

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What I see is a 90% crimp on a lead bullet.......

even though some bullets are not set at the same OAL to the case.

1. are the cases all the same OAL ?
2. do you seat the bullets before crimping ? (optional)
3. or set the final bullet seating with the crimp.

They will all work, even though they are a little off from perfect.

You did good and just a minimum adjustment to dies or components
will have you loading quality ammo, in no time.

By the way, that load is a keeper.

Thanks, I did not but will check case lengths although changing die depth etc for each would be a PIA!


The old dies I am using seat then crimp.


The process right now (after tumbling) is size with one die


de-primer flare one die then (after charging) seat and crimp one die.


Using a single press.

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The base of the third round looks thicker on the picture. But that is probably just the picture. Do you use the same brass manufacture or just random?

.38 Spec. is not a very strong caliber. Crimp like on round 1 and 3 should be ok.
You could check the length of one round before loading it as last round into the revolver. Shoot all other rounds and then check the length again. If the boolit moved, then you need more crimp.

The photo in post #6 - I vote for seat / crimp number one .

Crimp number two and number three ... the bullet seems seated too deep in the case , the case is running into / jammed into the driving band ...
number one looks best to me .

If you dont already try seating and crimping in two seperate steps , more work but best results when seating and crimping cast lead bullets .
Gary

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Back long, long ago, when I crimped and seated in one step, I almost always had a lead ring rolled off the bullet. Used to wipe a lot of rings off before firing. Remembering, however, that these were mostly wadcutters and perhaps softer lead than what we have today. I will not seat and crimp any bullet in one step!!
I think the crimp on your top bullet will be fine. I like a nice roll crimp on revolver bullets.

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Richard Gillespie
FBINA 102

If you're going to go punch holes in paper at 15 yards with your .38, just how consistent does crimp need to be? If you want to stretch that .38 out to 500 yards, then it might need to be a bit more consistent. I think shooter consistency is a much bigger concern.

Put me in the "don't trim" crowd.

Seating and crimping in one step is fine if you have a pronounced crimp groove on your bullet. The front edge of the case should be over it before it starts to push inwards. I think you need to seat the bullet out just a tad more maybe, it's hard to tell with the pics.

Start with a pile of brass and start measuring length. If it's mixed headstamps you may find there's one brand that's especially long. You can segregate those if you want or feel the need. Stop when you get bored doing it.

Set your crimp with your longest brass. That will keep you from over-crimping the longer stuff. The shorter (within reason) stuff should be O.K. as the tension does not, and should not, come from the case mouth, which should not cut into, or actually even touch, the bullet. The point at which the brass rolls over lower edge of the crimp groove is what provides the hold. That can be the same even with slightly differing lengths of brass....again, within reason.

Then try some of the shorter brass and see how it comes out.

You may notice a little more gap right below the front driving band on the shorter cases. That doesn't matter. The OAL is the same. The crimp tension should even be the same tension as the brass is folded over into the crimp groove at the same place and to the same degree (tension wise) even if it may "look" less crimped. If the case mouth is not touching the bullet it doesn't really matter where the case mouth is. If that makes sense.

Less crimp is better. You don't need a lot for mid-range .38 Special loads. These bullets have a lot of bearing surface and stay in the cases quite well. If you can see the crimp visually, it's probably enough. It can be a lot of adjusting to get it just right. But then you generally don't need to move it. Ever. I can't remember the last time I changed mine.

Doing it this way you'll eventually come up with a range of lengths that'll work for you. Anything longer you can trim into the range. Or toss. But most reloaders hate tossing any brass.

Your average revolver SWC/RN has a large crimp groove and is a very forgiving design. You can get away with a bit more than anything else. My mixed brass reloads, seated and crimped in one step, will shoot under 2" at 25 yards.

I prefer to seat and crimp in separate steps, but year ago did an experiment to satisfy my own curiosity using a revolver (don't remember the cartridge, but probably .38 Special). I loaded one batch using one step seat and crimp and another batch using the two-step method. I fired groups at 25 yards. As I recall, there was no difference in accuracy.

I've also done the roll crimp vs. taper crimp comparison for accuracy at 25 yards (again, I think it was with a .38 Special revolver). I got slightly better accuracy using a taper crimp. Most handloaders seem to prefer a roll crimp for revolver cartridges and that's fine, but there's nothing wrong with a taper crimp as long as there is no bullet movement under recoil.

Granted, my testing was not extensive, but for those who might be curious about results with their handloads in their guns, it's time well spent.

I seat and crimp in separate steps too. Not because it's always necessary but because sometimes it is and it's easier to just swap out crimp dies (I use a progressive) than re-set your seating die every time.

I roll crimp if a true crimp groove is present, taper crimp when there isn't. But I load the same stuff 90% of the time, there's not really a lot of variation.

On post #3, center case...........

there is a scratch mark form the die left on the case.

The inside of that die needs to be checked and maybe polished, if there is a bur inside of it.

Yes, that was from the previous set of steel dies, the chrome ones are better, I should just break down and buy some new ones.

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Two step , seperate crimping - seating is just easier to get dies set up correctly ...
BUT ... the big plus for me is after seating ... but before crimping ... I look at the round and if that pesky sliver of lead is sitting there , I wipe it away so it doesn't get shoved into the crimp groove .
My thoughts is that lead , if left there is going down the barrel to add to the fouling and leading . If I can catch it ... I wipe it off and "Nip it in the Bud" .
Some cast bullets have a bad habit of shaving lead ... I think it's the mould design or hardness/softness ...
Gary

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If the bullets don't jump the crimp under recoil, then you have enough. A common mistake is to overdo it.

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Common sense isn't so common.

If you ask about how your crimps look then I dont need to look at pictures. You crimp way way too much. The roll crimp is to lightly bring the mouth in and you test for it by the rounds chambering easy.

I'm in the seat first and crimp separate group.

I use a light crimp on copper coated bullets and my target loads.

I only use a medium or maybe a heavy crimp on my "Lead" bullets that
are ment for hunting, where maximum fps is needed for all the ft/lbs needed
and to keep the bullets from jumping, on recoil.

Testing accuracy without a Ransom Rest, no matter how good we think we are, ain't quite empirical but good enough for many uses.

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The term "look" to me means chamber well and don't move from recoil, I don't care about esthetics.

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