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10-21-2021, 08:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jon651
Let's look at the pictures, shall we...
The damage is confined to an area at the back of garage or the room behind it. The resulting damage indicates an explosion but not much (if any) of a resulting fire. This is backed up by the fact there is lots of small debris and a partial collapse of the truss system over the point of origin but the rest of the house remains intact with no smoke staining or sooty runoff. In fact, there is no water or sooty runoff from the fire department down the driveway, where you would expect it to be. Witnesses also say they heard "an explosion".
This was not a natural gas explosion (from a gas leak to a clothes dryer or gas water heater, either of which you would expect in that area of the house). If it was, the damage would be much (MUCH) greater - with possible secondary damage to surrounding structures. The same can be said if it was a meth lab - plus there would be more evidence.
The news reported that investigators already made the determination that it was a result of the reloading activity and the smokeless powder. There is nothing shown that contradicts this conclusion. I would not be surprised if the homeowner/reloader may have had a fan or an AC unit running in his work area that may have stirred up some powder, or possibly tipped over his container by accident. Get enough of it airborne and it WILL explode. Heck, wheat dust will explode. I also wouldn't hesitate to believe that he may have been smoking or was using some electrical equipment that may have generated an open spark.
The most amazing part about what I see is that he is actually using his garage FOR A CAR!
Never underestimate "Florida Man"...
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I think I'll go with the FIREMAN on speculation? Sugar is also highly combustionable in large dust plooms also.
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10-21-2021, 06:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by austintexas
Back in '64 a local gunshop, Shooters Paradise blew up, Killed the owner and blew customers out of the plate glass front windows. The owner was also a gunsmith, He was in the basement checking out a repaired pistol. Fire dept said that he set off a pound of black powder in a paper bag in the basement. What was strange was the local natural gas company was there the next day leveling out the rubble.
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Black powder in a bag will flash but not explode . Gas leak .
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10-21-2021, 07:20 PM
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One thing is for sure, the house is a mess regardless of what caused it.
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10-21-2021, 07:46 PM
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Smokeless powder is not dust or small enough particles unless someone ground it up somehow. It will not float up in the air it will fall to the floor.
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10-21-2021, 09:43 PM
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Before we switched to M109 SP howitzers my battery had M102 towed howitzers. For the M102 the casings came pre loaded with bags of smokeless powder and you would pull bags out of the casings to adjust the load. At the end of the practice firing we might end up with 40-50 lbs of powder which we would dispose of by putting it in a ditch and firing a flare into the powder. The powder would burn like the Mother of All Road Flares but not explode if unconfined.
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10-21-2021, 09:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eddie Southgate
Black powder in a bag will flash but not explode . Gas leak .
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10-22-2021, 08:13 AM
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My thought...
Quote:
Originally Posted by crstrode
He did not blow up his house while reloading.
He blew up his house (and his reloading bench) while cooking up meth on a leaky gas stove
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My thoughts exactly.
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10-22-2021, 10:02 AM
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I guess that since the powers that be have apparently concluded that it’s a reloading accident the investigation is closed and we’ll never really know what happened.
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10-22-2021, 10:10 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 03hemi
I think I'll go with the FIREMAN on speculation? Sugar is also highly combustionable in large dust plooms also.
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Sugar might also be considered highly combustible when mixed with water, sometimes fermented fruit added, then heated in a a container that has a hole at the top to which a pipe is connected, the pipe often runs through a cooling coil... but if there is a leak in that sort of system... boom!
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10-22-2021, 10:56 AM
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Having worked in the electrical industry for many years, I have witnessed a good bit of fire inspector’s speculation first hand. We had several cases of electrical short circuits causing fires when the buildings did not have power connected to them. My guess is that the “reloader” was probably smoking around an open gasoline container which ignited the fumes leading to the explosion and fire. The smokeless powder acted as an accelerant creating a “hot spot” at the reloading area. Of course, this is just speculation. There is probably more to this story than is being told.
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10-23-2021, 08:17 PM
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It’s been a good ride, but there are at least a half dozen other threads here on this forum where the forum members don’t believe the public information and have proposed ridiculous alternate theories . . .
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10-27-2021, 01:16 PM
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Banned SCAMMER !!! < SCAMMER * SCAMMER * SCAMMER * SCAMMER * SCAMMER * SCAMMER * SCAMMER SCAMMER * SCAMMER SCAMMER * SCAMMER SCAMMER * SCAMMER SCAMMER * SCAMMER
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A lot more to this story, in my opinion he hasn't give the real details of how it blows up
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10-27-2021, 02:27 PM
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FWIW, just how close was this guy to the “ explosion”?, seems he would have been killed?
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10-28-2021, 05:12 PM
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Since the guy survived...............
I am saying he took a break and went to the men's room and was sitting down, reading a magazine
when things happened !!
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11-02-2021, 10:57 PM
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Smokeless powder is almost as combustible as paper, at 1 atm.
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11-03-2021, 12:40 PM
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I've stayed awat from this thread (here and on other forums) as the more people commenting just adds to any leftest news media's credibility, BS. A truthful report would be "House explodes while man is working at his hobby in his garage". But that wouldn't sell as many newspapers and wouldn't give anti-gunners any glee...
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11-03-2021, 01:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jdavis
Having worked in the electrical industry for many years, I have witnessed a good bit of fire inspector’s speculation first hand. We had several cases of electrical short circuits causing fires when the buildings did not have power connected to them. My guess is that the “reloader” was probably smoking around an open gasoline container which ignited the fumes leading to the explosion and fire. The smokeless powder acted as an accelerant creating a “hot spot” at the reloading area. Of course, this is just speculation. There is probably more to this story than is being told.
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I’m in the same camp.
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11-04-2021, 03:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sourdough44
I’m in the same camp.
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Although I haven't kept up with the "reports" but has it been determined, by an experts (not some reporter) that the reloading was specifically responsible for the explosion? I've been reloading for over 40 years, have kept in touch with the reloading community and have never heard of any instance like reported; "Man blows up house whie reloading"...
Last edited by mikld; 11-05-2021 at 01:06 PM.
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11-04-2021, 03:58 PM
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With powder hard to find these days can this meth stuff be used as a substitute for Bullseye, Unique or H110?
Not so funny but:
VA just called to schedule a consult with a general surgeon.
I replied that I would prefer a Colonel.
It took the gal a few seconds but she laughed.
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Last edited by Imissedagain; 11-04-2021 at 04:17 PM.
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11-05-2021, 09:51 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikld
Although I haven't kept up with the "reports" but has it been determined. by an experts (not some reporter) that the reloading was specifically responsible for the explosion? I've been reloading for over 40 years, have kept in touch with the reloading community and have never heard of any instance like reported; "Man blows up house whie reloading"...
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I agree, but perhaps there is one very important factor we have been overlooking. It was a Florida man and if you Google "Florida Man" and read some of those reports... well...
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11-05-2021, 10:03 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stansdds
I agree, but perhaps there is one very important factor we have been overlooking. It was a Florida man and if you Google "Florida Man" and read some of those reports... well...
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Well if you look into who Florida man is they are almost always from other states and even Virginia.
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11-05-2021, 10:21 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikld
Although I haven't kept up with the "reports" but has it been determined. by an experts (not some reporter) that the reloading was specifically responsible for the explosion? I've been reloading for over 40 years, have kept in touch with the reloading community and have never heard of any instance like reported; "Man blows up house whie reloading"...
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When the initial reports came out the way they were worded made it sound like the firefighters had determined the fire/explosion was due to reloading. I don't know anything about fire investigations but it seemed improbable that an investigation done in under a day would be able to determine that something like gun powder would blow up a house in that manner.
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11-05-2021, 10:32 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nemo288
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Very interesting - and the info most pertinent to this discussion starts on page 530.
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11-05-2021, 10:46 PM
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As I posted before if 3 lbs of smokeless powder in original containers would blow up a house you would not be able to order 8 lb jugs online and have them delivered to your home. Also no retail store would have 50 lbs of more on display for sale. Not sure you could even make a bomb with 3 lbs of smokeless powder that would blow up a house like the one in the picture.
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11-06-2021, 11:09 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Golphin
Well if you look into who Florida man is they are almost always from other states and even Virginia.
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Sum of us is Florida Man wannabe's.
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11-06-2021, 03:22 PM
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I’m “ a Florida man” now and I’m from Virginia, sure not dumb/ stupid to blow up a house.LOL
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11-06-2021, 05:14 PM
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6 lbs of powder will NOT blow up a house. Sure will if you put it in a threaded pipe.
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11-07-2021, 09:37 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Mrnurse
6 lbs of powder will NOT blow up a house. Sure will if you put it in a threaded pipe.
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And that might be the "small arms ammunition" they were trying to reload.
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01-02-2022, 09:28 AM
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Blown up house from “ reloading”???
Spent Christmas at friends near Tampa. He mentioned the “ house that blew up from reloading “is only about 6 blocks away so had to go take a look. Owners reloading bench is clearly seen sitting in the rubble. Not going to post my opinion as did not cross Police tape but confident Not from reloading smokeless powder cartridges. 396A13DF-0B58-407F-BB12-A7A3E75E83A8.jpg
50C3D61D-C013-48A4-802B-37547AE86F42.jpeg
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01-02-2022, 02:56 PM
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It could have been some kind of dust explosion or some solvent vapors.
Propane will explode if conditions are right, was there a crawl space under
the house or partial basement?
I've also seen a reinforced concrete grain elevator with the walls pealed
back like an orange, grain dust. About any material that will burn if
made into a fine powder will explode due to the huge surface area.
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01-02-2022, 03:30 PM
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Nice...the loading bench survived. Raises many questions.
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01-02-2022, 04:01 PM
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Wonder if this qualifies for the no b.s. warranty?
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01-02-2022, 05:31 PM
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ATF is Still investigating. House was similar to the other in the neighborhood Looks like there was a room off the garage where “ it happened”. Would love to talk to the insurance Co. investigator. No dust explosion, no natural gas/ propane and no small arms ammo accident. Consider the white stuff they sell everywhere that blows up when shot or????
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01-02-2022, 06:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Just another 22 shooter
Here in my southwest Iowa town a few years back we had a small(1500 sq ft) house in the not so good part of town blow up with very little fire damage. Everyone thought it was just another meth lab that went kaboom. Turned out the people who owned it had a cockroach problem. They used not one, but six aerosol bug bombs in the house. Left the pilot flame on the water heater on and voila.......big boom. No more cockroaches, no more house.
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Not an isolated instance. Brings to mind a product called 4 B-gone. Should’ve named it HOUSE be gone
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01-05-2022, 02:57 AM
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Oh please, don't give them any ideas!!
".....must be just about time for some new "sensible and reasonable federal regulations" regarding reloading to protect the public...?"
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01-05-2022, 03:00 AM
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No Way
"I am saying he took a break and went to the men's room and was sitting down, reading a magazine when things happened !!"
Not even a Playboy magazine is going to cause the much explosion.
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01-05-2022, 03:04 AM
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Yeah, but there must've been SOMETHING that drew that person to Florida.
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01-05-2022, 07:52 AM
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There's been 2 explosions for gunpowder in the earea I live in the past 40 years.
1st 1 was at a gunshop, they'd get kegs of black powder in (cheap) and sell #'s of to customers. It was a bring your own container thing. They just got a couple kegs in and put the word out. Customers flocked in and the guy taking the black powder out of kegs and weighing it was smoking a cigar. Needless to say it didn't go well. Thankfully there was only 9 people in the building at the time. 2 died, 7 were injured and the cinder block building was destroyed.
Fire Kills 2 and Burns 7 In Ohio Sport Goods Shop - The New York Times
2nd explosion was in a small town where a guy was trying to make his own fireworks.
Explosions rock neighborhood - UPI Archives.
Explosion Destroys House; At Least Two People Killed | AP News
Several blocks away windows were shattered in houses from that explosion.
A good friend of mine was the local fire chief in the town that I live in. People brought in a lot of powder to be disposed of from reloaders that passed away. They didn't know what to do with it. A lot of it was old and he burned it, I'm talking 100's of #'s of black and smokeless. He did a lot of testing/experimenting. I asked him about safety issues/concerns when I started having kids. He had no problem stating that if I left my reloading components in the original factory packaging. I wouldn't have to worry; the packaging is designed so explosions can't happen.
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01-05-2022, 08:05 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greyman50
Spent Christmas at friends near Tampa. He mentioned the “ house that blew up from reloading “is only about 6 blocks away so had to go take a look. Owners reloading bench is clearly seen sitting in the rubble. Not going to post my opinion as did not cross Police tape but confident Not from reloading smokeless powder cartridges. Attachment 551255
Attachment 551256
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Wow. Rock Chuckers really are tough. Didn't even damage the finish.
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01-05-2022, 08:09 AM
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My 2 cents:
1 of the dumbest things I've seen reloaders do is use a incandescent light bulb to heat the lube in their luber-sizers. The bulb is placed next ot the luber-sizer and things like cotton towels are placed over everything to keep the heat in/get everything to heat up faster.
Watched a friend of mine catch the luber-sizer on fire doing this. It was a combo of being distracted along with oils/greases on the dirty luber-sizer and the cotton towel (wick) getting too hot and starting a fire.
Went over his house, he was outside doing yardwork. He went into the garage to check on the temp of the luber-sizer with the bulb/towel setup. I saw this and told him to get off his wallet and buy a heater. He laughed and handed me a beer. We went back outside and were bs'ing when smoke started rolling out the man door. Sure enough the towel was on fire!!!
Don't know it something like this happened in florida.
But I do know the guy isn't going to say he left anything unattended or put anything in aftermarket containers for insurance purposes.
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01-05-2022, 08:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by snowman1967
Everybody seems to be overlooking the fact that this was in a confined space. A room. Like a shell casing. A spark or whatever acted as the primer. Yes, the smokeless powder is "slow burning". However, if it doesn't "explode", then why the loud report when you fire the gun? The "bang" comes from somewhere. The powder is compacted into a cylinder, which has a primer, with a bullet that is pressed into the shell in such a way as to provide a tight seal. The firing pin strikes the primer, which ignites the powder. The resulting gasses from the burning powder build enough pressure to "push", or propel the bullet out of the casing. The resulting release of all that pressure results in the loud report, or "bang", or "explosion". So, the more powder you have, the more energy being released from that ignited powder, the more pressure buildup within a confined space that has to be released somewhere. The roof, doors, windows etc all become the "bullets". No conspiracies. No hidden motives. Simple physics. Simple science.
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Pretty low loading density given the volume of the confined space. That'd be like 2.8 gr of Bullseye in a 105mm Howitzer round. That's a confined space too, but don't think the projectile is going to go anywhere.
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01-05-2022, 08:42 AM
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There is a Lee on left end of bench and maybe a Dillon of some sort with the powder measure( whats left of it) in middle and vice on right end. Guess many don’t read all posts. Per my buddy that lives there, No natural gas and No propane! Could fill up the room with smokeless powder, light it and this would not happen. Burn down the place but no explosion.
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01-05-2022, 03:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Forrest r
My 2 cents:
1 of the dumbest things I've seen reloaders do is use a incandescent light bulb to heat the lube in their luber-sizers. The bulb is placed next ot the luber-sizer and things like cotton towels are placed over everything to keep the heat in/get everything to heat up faster.
Watched a friend of mine catch the luber-sizer on fire doing this. It was a combo of being distracted along with oils/greases on the dirty luber-sizer and the cotton towel (wick) getting too hot and starting a fire.
Went over his house, he was outside doing yardwork. He went into the garage to check on the temp of the luber-sizer with the bulb/towel setup. I saw this and told him to get off his wallet and buy a heater. He laughed and handed me a beer. We went back outside and were bs'ing when smoke started rolling out the man door. Sure enough the towel was on fire!!!
Don't know it something like this happened in florida.
But I do know the guy isn't going to say he left anything unattended or put anything in aftermarket containers for insurance purposes.
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Interesting comment. I have had a light bulb in a trouble light on mine for harder lubes for more than 20 years. I am not foolish enough to cover it. Thanks for the perspective.
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01-05-2022, 05:58 PM
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Wow, a heat gun works well on lubisizer. Down here it does not get very cold.
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01-06-2022, 03:37 PM
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I use my wifes hairdrier to heat lubesizer.
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01-06-2022, 11:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by johnjohn
I use my wifes hairdrier to heat lubesizer.
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Yeah sure, your "wife's" hairdryer
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01-07-2022, 11:29 AM
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I have a friend who is a Lt. in a fire dept. in Florida and reloader. He took great interest in this. According to him, the gentlemen had an unlicensed ammunition reloading business.
It was related to me that a fire started got into the large qty of smokeless powder then the large fire touched off the 10's of thousands of primers that they had hoarded for the business.
He related that the men were no cooperation with the authorities because of the illegal commercial reloading operation. I have no documentation just what was related to me.
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01-07-2022, 12:36 PM
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I did estimate on guns and related items for a lawyer. All had to be itemized value for probate court. I had done several estates for this lawyer and he never questioned my valuations. This particular estate had many partial cans of powder. I’m talking 15-20 cans. On sheet I had it valued as 0. I told him not salable so he had the guys cleaning up the house burn it.
I told them to pour out in a pile. I would say a 10lb pile of assorted IMR and Hogdon powder. It produced nothing but a violent burn, was a big let down for those who thought it would explode.
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01-07-2022, 02:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 41 mag Dave
I have a friend who is a Lt. in a fire dept. in Florida and reloader. He took great interest in this. According to him, the gentlemen had an unlicensed ammunition reloading business.
It was related to me that a fire started got into the large qty of smokeless powder then the large fire touched off the 10's of thousands of primers that they had hoarded for the business.
He related that the men were no cooperation with the authorities because of the illegal commercial reloading operation. I have no documentation just what was related to me.
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That makes much more sense. Both in terms of the explosion destroying the house and the official statements that didn't seem to make sense (because they didn't have the actual details).
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