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04-20-2009, 06:57 PM
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I was wondering if I could make a sort of "semi" hollow point bullet out of a plated or lead bullet. Do you think it would help it expand or mushroom a little? Seems most 22lr HP's just have a hole in them. There would not be any true "petals" but maybe a cross notch with Dremel?
Just a thought on making some SD ammo out of regular plated or lead bullets.
A 158gr LSWC with hole??
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04-20-2009, 07:05 PM
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OCD1,
Why?
If you want to load your own SD ammo, just buy some gold dots or similar bullets and load your own.
You don't really need to reinvent the wheel.
Cheers, Doug
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04-20-2009, 11:04 PM
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While I didn't reinvent the wheel I did make a hollow pointer that fits in my case trimmer. I used a center drill and made a holder for it that screws into my case trimmer after removing the cutter.
Hollow pointing my own cast bullets from free wheel weights is much cheaper than buying Gold Dots.
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04-20-2009, 11:26 PM
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Quote:
The Forster Universal Hollow Pointer drills cavities in the noses of cast bullets on loaded rounds of ammunition. Hollow point depth is controlled by setting the stop collar of your trimmer. Compatible with the Forster Original, Classic or Power Case Trimmers. A short or long case trimmer base might be necessary for very short or long rounds. Not for use on jacketed bullets. Case Trimmer sold separately.
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Midway Forster
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04-21-2009, 01:45 AM
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Coming to the realization that not everyone knows what a center drill looks like, I thought I would post a picture of some. This would the the ticket for the average Joe. Many supply houses have them. They are designed for rigidity. The flutes will not "grab" and cause the bit to be pulled deeper than desired.
Working on the same type of thing here, not much progress yet though!
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04-21-2009, 02:20 AM
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To hollowpoint lead bullets sucessfully using those center drills, you will need access to a small lathe and the proper size collets. The collets would hold the bullet or loaded cartridge, and the tailstock jacobs chuck would hold the center drill. At the minimum, you could also use some sort of cartridge holding fixture and a small drill press.
I've used the Forster hollowpoint accessory, and can't say that it was that usefull. You need dead-soft lead bullets to get worthwhile expansion, and the holes are frequently off center enough to affect accuracy. You will get much better results either casting or swaging your own hollowpoints. Cheaper than buying the factory made ones too.
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04-21-2009, 04:27 AM
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Here's an article from Jeff Quinn at Gunblast about Paco Kelly's Nastinose:
http://www.gunblast.com/Paco.htm
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04-21-2009, 05:33 AM
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here a gunsmith who modified mold to hp.
http://www.hollowpointmold.com/
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04-21-2009, 08:22 AM
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So it seems I probably can not do it just with drill press. That Paco Kelly Nastinose seems like the ticket only if he had it for larger calibers.
Why? You ask? Probably too much time on my hands
Here is a blast from the past. Do you recognize
Smith Crazy (Skip) in the video??
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ntzCi1lu2ys
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04-21-2009, 08:23 AM
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Back in the 70's my stepfather would drill 38's and .357's with an 1/8th inch drill bit, 1/8th inch deep with a drillpress. He used a cutdown brass upsidedown and drilled through at the primer pocket. Super-vels had just come out and were not available in our town. I'm not sure there was any proof they functioned, and no one had a chrono those days.
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04-21-2009, 08:37 AM
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I'm sure you could do it, but the ammo companies have spent years and thousands of dollars to perfect the hollowpoint bullet, which may or may not expand, depending on what it hits, etc.
State of the art expanding bullets are the way to go, IMO, how many are you going to shoot, anyway? You can always practice with cheap lead bullets and reserve the HPs for serious social purposes.
if you want a supercheap HP, you can always load the HBWC backwards.
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04-21-2009, 09:16 AM
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I'd think drilling is the easy part. Conviencing yourself that contraption is good enough to be used for real would be much harder.
Mike
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04-21-2009, 09:31 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by sar4937:
Back in the 70's my stepfather would drill 38's and .357's with an 1/8th inch drill bit, 1/8th inch deep with a drillpress. He used a cutdown brass upsidedown and drilled through at the primer pocket. Super-vels had just come out and were not available in our town. I'm not sure there was any proof they functioned, and no one had a chrono those days.
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Sounds like a great way to do it. If the lead was soft enough I would "guess" it helped peel the bullet somewhat. Might be good for hunting applications.
Don't get me wrong, I have plenty of JHP Gold Dots, Golden Sabers etc. I would not carry one of my creations. Just a lame thought or idea
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04-21-2009, 10:00 AM
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Despite a couple of skeptics it can be done very easily without spending thousands of dollars to duplicate something that may or may not work. That's the beauty of being a reloader. Back in the 80's Barnes used to make a 300gr jacketed bullet designed for the 444 Marlin but no one produced a heavy hollow point and very little loading data was available. I don't recall if loading data was even available for the 44mag but I wanted to shoot these in my Super Blackhawk and this tool was the answer. It didn't take much to convince me it was devastating on deer.
I should mention that I still have an older RCBS case trimmer that uses a collet to center the cases. Also, I did cut the center drill in half with an abrasive blade and made the adapter at work in about half an hour.
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06-12-2016, 01:34 PM
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you can also load hollow base wadcutters backwards
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06-12-2016, 03:16 PM
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Wow! a Zombie blast from the past!
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06-12-2016, 03:27 PM
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Seems to me Charles Bronson did it effectively in Death Wish (X). As I recall, he was filling the cavities of his 475 Wildey rounds with Mercury to wipe the smile off the face of "the Giggler". :-)
Me, I'll stick to the factory stuff.
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06-12-2016, 04:40 PM
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When You drill those 158gr bullets what weight are they going to end up?
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06-12-2016, 04:50 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wee Hooker
Seems to me Charles Bronson did it effectively in Death Wish (X). As I recall, he was filling the cavities of his 475 Wildey rounds with Mercury to wipe the smile off the face of "the Giggler". :-)
Me, I'll stick to the factory stuff.
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A.475 such modified must've not only wiped off the smile from his face;it must have taken away the whole face!!!!Ouch!
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06-12-2016, 05:36 PM
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Forster Universal Hollow Pointing Tool from Midway is $19.00, all made up and done right....no need to reinvent this wheel !
Nice tool , just follow the directions and you have HP's.
Gary
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06-12-2016, 05:38 PM
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Just allow for the material you cut out....
Weigh the bullet after drilling so you can use matching data. I've thought about hollowing out some SWCs myself rather than buy a hundred of them. I'm an experimenter and don't mind a 'do it yourself' approach as long as safety is first. I really can't afford everything that I'd like to have and some things have to come first. And for practice, premium bullets are expensive and I like to use a cheaper alternative that I can afford to shoot enough to stay proficient with them.
Some casting outfits make HP SWCs I wouldn't mind getting some of those at slightly more that the expense of a regular SWC.
I remember people used to make 'dum dums' by cutting a cross on top of a lead bullets. I don't know how effective this was, but it doesn't hurt anything to do it as long as you don't squash the profile of the bullet into something bigger than it should be.
I just had an idea. I have a good many soft swaged SWCs from Speer. Those would be great to play with for an expanding round but the velocities couldn't be very high.
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06-12-2016, 05:55 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wee Hooker
Seems to me Charles Bronson did it effectively in Death Wish (X). As I recall, he was filling the cavities of his 475 Wildey rounds with Mercury to wipe the smile off the face of "the Giggler". :-)
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They do a lot of things with guns in the movies.
Many, no.. MOST, have nothing to do with reality.
Having said that there are a few directors such as Clint that try for historical and functional accuracy.
But watch him in Sergio's films and you will see guys blown off their feet by black powder handguns.
<sounds game losing horn>
The scene in TGTBATU where Eli disassembles several Remingtons and takes the best parts to
instantly make a super accurate gun is worth watching however wishful.
Back to the topic:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expanding_bullet
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06-12-2016, 06:50 PM
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What would be a more interesting (and relevant ) question is what effect does taking 20+% of a bullets weight have on pressures with a factory ( or home spun) load in magnum and non magnum calibers. Wonder if there is a chance of a "kaboom"....
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06-12-2016, 07:04 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wee Hooker
What would be a more interesting (and relevant ) question is what effect does taking 20+% of a bullets weight have on pressures with a factory ( or home spun) load in magnum and non magnum calibers. Wonder if there is a chance of a "kaboom"....
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From what I've seen, powder weight is inverse of bullet weight. As bullet weight goes down, recommended powder charge goes up and vice versa.
So taking weight off the bullet without reducing the powder charge would just result in a slightly lighter loaded round - wouldn't it?
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06-12-2016, 07:38 PM
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Yep.
Reducing the bullet mass or moving it forward (increasing the usable case volume) lowers the pressure.
Adding powder or pushing the bullet into the case raises the pressure.
You can play with this in internal ballistics programs such as QuickLOAD.
The results may not be completely accurate but will give you a good idea of the magnitude of the changes.
Moving the bullet in and out has a GREAT affect on the pressure which is why COAL must be paid attention to in recipes.
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06-12-2016, 07:43 PM
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Maybe the "prudent" approach would be to actually weigh the bullet after a hole was drilled in it.
But in the absence of load data for a hollowed out bullet the next HIGHER weight bullet data can be used, There would be a increase in velocity.
The weight of the bullet would vary by the size of the hole and the alloy used. One should also take into account the altitude at which the bullet was weighed as the father from the earths core the lighter it will become.
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06-12-2016, 07:59 PM
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So Rule3, did you ever make hollow points by drilling holes in them with a drill press? If so, how did they work?
Seven years is a long time to perfect the method
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06-12-2016, 08:08 PM
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So Rule
would this hollow point be for defense against BEARS?
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I'd like to agree with you BUT
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06-12-2016, 08:10 PM
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Good gravy....
It ain't rocket science. Take 158 gr. bullet. Drill hole, weigh bullet. Lyman has weights for 150 or close to whatever weight the bullet ends up to be. Try to match you bullet close to one of those with a similar profile. Start out conservatively like any new load.
If there is any difference in data between a 158 FJM or 158 JHP it's minute, if there at all. I don't think there really any other significant variables. Changes in c.o.g. or B.C. or SD aren't going to make any difference in internal ballistics. The bullet is wedged in the barrel and isn't going anywhere except out the end. They may not be accurate, or fall to the ground at 20 feet, but that's not dangerous. For close range stuff I don't think you'd notice much.
I'm going out to my garage tonight and drill out a few for the heck of it and probably shoot them at the range Wednesday. I have some swaged soft bullets and some hard cast. I'll figure out some way to capture these and take a look at them. Box full of stuffing?
The only question i have is how soft should the bullet be. Again, casters sell these. Maybe get a clue from them.
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06-12-2016, 08:14 PM
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What would these home made hollow points be used for? If you need a defensive bullet buy a box of hollow point jacketed bullets designed to stop bad guys. If it is to defend life and limb why in the world would anyone experiment with home made HP's? Besides, a good lawyer will kill you in court telling a jury you drilled out your bullets to make them maim. From a legal standpoint where you may end up testifying in court you're much better off using a box of factory loaded ammo. Even normal reloads cause arguments in court and not all jurors are intelligent enough to rule fairly. Lawyers are very good at turning you into a radical who was intent from the start on causing great bodily harm by loading home modified bullets.
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06-12-2016, 08:31 PM
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Bullet balance will be potentially affected. Aerodynamic stability only exists if the center of pressure is behind the center of gravity. Doubtful that either of the changes created in drilling would be noted at SD range.
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06-12-2016, 09:30 PM
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Rule 3,
I'm curious too if you ever tried this. First, a relatively Large hole would give better effect than a small one! Forster has had a hollow-point attachment for its' case trimmer for over 50 years, and they still sell it although I don't know why! Their method for aligning the cartridge is worse than poor, the part of the accessory that is intended to align the cartridge and bullet is guided by the fluted portion of the drill and doesn't center the drill any better than just eyeballing it would.
I have the Forster attachment and have modified the centering guide so it works better than the original, but still when I drilled a few cartridges to compare accuracy with un-drilled bullets (In a .357) accuracy totally went in the toilet!
What you might try if you really want to still, is to buy some of the plated hollow-point bullets sold by Berry and, I believe, others. Once loaded use the Forster tool to drill the plating out of the hollow-point cavity. I never could see how it would work having a copper shell covering the interior of the hollow-point!
All that said, I second just using Gold Dots, if you can find any.
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06-12-2016, 09:44 PM
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I use X-treme's plated hollow points they are plated and I get very good accuracy from them but suspect the hollow point is just for looks. I buy Hornady FTX and load them to match my Hornady Critical Defense SD ammo. I shoot them is 3 calibers and like to fire off a mag a week and the factory loads are to expensive for me to do that.
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06-12-2016, 11:42 PM
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Same, I use XTPs
Quote:
Originally Posted by Magload
I use X-treme's plated hollow points they are plated and I get very good accuracy from them but suspect the hollow point is just for looks. I buy Hornady FTX and load them to match my Hornady Critical Defense SD ammo. I shoot them is 3 calibers and like to fire off a mag a week and the factory loads are to expensive for me to do that.
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Same, I use Hornady XTPs for serious SD work (because they are more available than Gold Dots). I would think that an effective SWCHP would have to be pretty soft. I have some very soft Speer swaged bullets that are SWCs but they have the 'dry lube' and aren't suitable for higher velocities but they are probably soft enough. I'm going to shop around casters and see who makes a coated SWC or FP bullet about 10-12 Brinnel.
PS: I've been wanting to do this for myself for awhile, just for grins. If I'm caught short in the Zombie Apocalypse I'll have a ready supply of nasty rounds for head shots, since that's the only place that they do any good.
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06-13-2016, 12:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4MUL8R
Bullet balance will be potentially affected. Aerodynamic stability only exists if the center of pressure is behind the center of gravity. Doubtful that either of the changes created in drilling would be noted at SD range.
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Excellent point!
A pistol bullet fired through a barrel with 1-in-18" twist rifling is turning on its axis at a rate of over 50,000 RPM. Unless the weight distribution is perfect (or close to perfect) the bullet is likely to be unstable in flight due to centrifugal forces.
Unless the drilled hole is perfectly centered accuracy can be expected to suffer because the bullet is likely to tumble. Of course, at short defensive ranges that in itself might be more effective than any benefit that hollow-pointing might provide.
I am not the world's biggest fan of hollow-point bullets. If I have to shoot a critter I actually like the idea of full penetration with two holes (entry and exit) to allow for rapid exsanguination, loss of blood pressure, unconsciousness, and end of the exercise.
YMMV.
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06-13-2016, 01:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rule3
Why? You ask? Probably too much time on my hands
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No, I never did see above as to why I even thought of it
It was a idea conceived in a stupor
Still in the blueprint stage.. If I recall I had a bunch of regular bullets and wanted to have some practice hollow points or I was going to fill them with Ghost Pepper juice like Venom Ballistics!
That's my story and I am sticking to it!
Why this thread arose from the dead I have no idea.
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06-13-2016, 01:20 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LoboGunLeather
I am not the world's biggest fan of hollow-point bullets. If I have to shoot a critter I actually like the idea of full penetration with two holes (entry and exit) to allow for rapid exsanguination, loss of blood pressure, unconsciousness, and end of the exercise.
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Exactly.
The classic double rifle load is a "soft point" in #1 and a solid in #2.
Some load revolvers the same way.
The whole idea of the big bore WFN bullet is to combine the best of both worlds:
Create a fairly large wound channel that is deeper than a JHP would go.
There are even some formulas that claim to predict this action.
Some real world forensics suggest that the faster a WFN hits an animal the wider the wound channel due to hydraulics.
Terminal Ballistics
Lead Bullets Technology
Drilling a hole in these would defeat the whole scheme (maybe).
It certainly would not help the accuracy which can be outstanding.
They do not fly as far accurately as the Keith but make a much bigger hole at close range.
Folks have debated the best bullet for urban use since the HP was invented.
I am not going to get into that.
I must say the only magnum velocity bullets I have recovered were fired into a rain soaked loose earth and horse manure pile.
You can still see some of that on one.
They seem to have performed perfectly.
They have gone completely thru the couple of deer I have shot with the Redhawk.
Bang flop. Our whitetails aren't that big.
As I now shoot a lot of 44's faster even than that carbine I have gone mostly to the WFNGC.
There are a few jacketed 44 bullets designed for the Mach 2 range but I feel the cast bullet is going to be more reliable at any speed.
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06-13-2016, 01:42 PM
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06-13-2016, 01:48 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Magload
I use X-treme's plated hollow points they are plated and I get very good accuracy from them but suspect the hollow point is just for looks. I buy Hornady FTX and load them to match my Hornady Critical Defense SD ammo. I shoot them is 3 calibers and like to fire off a mag a week and the factory loads are to expensive for me to do that.
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The various plated HP are for accuracy, moving weight to the rear for stability. They expand erratically, fragmenting or not expanding at all.
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NRA Cert. Inst. IDPA CSO
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