Hi all, I've been ignoring getting a chronograph for quite awhile and a couple days ago I went to the range and fired some 38sp test loads that I made up for my wife to shoot on her 686-6pc. A friend of mine is overstocked on W-244 and I have plenty of HP38 so we traded my 38 for his 244. I've never loaded 244 before and stayed mid-range with Acme 125g FPNLG coated. They performed really well but seemed a bit hot, but as I said, never used 244 before. All that aside I need to get a chronograph and have been looking at the Caldwell ballistics G2. I like the IOS App feature and seems to get good reviews. I load 38 sp..+P..357..45acp..9mm..30-30...win300.
Any thoughts or recommendations are really appreciated.
thanks

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Never fly the "A" model

I've got a plain old Pact Model 1 that has served me well for about 25 years now. Not real fancy or expensive. But it works just fine.

I remember back in the day when Hercules Powder was in Delaware, and I was doing a lot of shooting, mostly shot shell, you could send the boys in the test lab something you had an idea for. Especially, for component combinations not listed as being used together, and they would load some up and test em and give you pressures, velocity, velocity spread , etc. You just needed to give them components that you wanted to use, and for metallic cartridges components and bbl length. Never needed my own chronograph.

They loved doing it, and testing out new loads and ideas

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Pete
I ain't no fortunate son

if you're going to seldom use a chronograph, the Caldwell and other less expensive ones will work. If you decide to do a lot of chronographing, you'll likely outgrow a minimal chronograph.

Heavy duty units like the Oehler P35 or the LabRadar are better chronographs but cost considerably more than the lesser ones. I used a PACT years ago and it was good machine; don't know if the newer ones still are or not and the PACT costs a good bit less than the Oehler and LabRadar.

One word - LabRadar. Works indoors, outdoors, sunny, cloudy. No need to go down range to set up. Phone app lacks some functionality (like transferring data outside the app and looses connection to the unit once in a while) but the unit itself works great.

I started with the most basic Chrony about 20 years ago, it worked fine for the limited amount of use I gave it, mainly just checking MV of reloads. Only problem is that you need to write down all numbers from the display and do your data analysis later. That was a bit of a chore, but not too bad if you are checking just a few loads. However, I managed to put a bullet through it about 5 years ago. I bought a repacement Chrony used from eBay. It was the more advanced model that does all the statistics for you (mean, spread, standard deviation, etc.). I paid about $80 for it, and when I got it, it looked like it had never been used. It worked fine. The only thing it lacked was the instructions, and I found them on the Chrony website. Have been happily using it ever since. If you are not getting into extensive, very serious, and precise ballistics work, and don't have money to burn, the Chrony will do everything you need done. I highly recommend it.

Caldwell basic unit: cheap ($85 on sale), links to smartphone for any computations (free app), only works in broad daylight, the whole unit sits where it can be shot. ONE YEAR WARRANTY

PACT Chrono $168, can add IR skyscreens for indoor use ($40) , physical computer (that sits safely on the bench) automatically computes and stores shot string statistics, only sky screens are in line of fire, made in TX with LIFETIME WARRANTY.

You pays your money and you makes your choice.

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Science plus Art

I started with the lowest model Chrony it lasted about 10 years until a friend shot low and wiped it out! He had shot his brand new one earlier. He had a replacement for me in 5 days and got one for himself. He shot his on the first shot and the fourth one on the same day.

At our annual shooting awards at Thanksgiving that year, he got a special award for limiting out on chronographs twice in 8 days!

A DIFFERENT friend had one of the first LabRadar units out. I works fantastic but they are a bit pricy.

Ivan

With my original Chrony, I managed to shoot several of the steel rod supports for the translucent shades, but that did not damage the unit itself. I would just make up new supports out of steel rod. But the one time I hit the unit itself, it was totally destroyed and beyond repair. If you did that, Chrony used to have a policy that they would sell you a replacement at a reduced price. Maybe they still do. I find that on overcast days, the translucent shades are unnecessary, but you still need the rods so you can judge where to aim.

About any photo tripod will work to hold the Chrony. I found a fairly sturdy one at a garage sale for only a few bucks, and have been using it the whole time I have been using my Chronys.

BTW, back when I was using my first Chrony, I would write down the data and later analyze it on my laptop using MS Excel. The Chrony I have now makes that unnecessary as all the statistical measures are displayed.

Been using the lower end Caldwell Premium Kit, that packaged the lights and tripod with it.

The tripod is pretty flimsy, but the light kit was worth the extra $50, since I do use it indoors.

Only other thing to mention is the Android and iOS apps are kind of clumsy to use and get data out of but it does work.

I have to say that no one needs a $550 chronograph, but some might want one.

I paid too much over 20 years ago for a PACT Professional XP, but it still works perfectly. The new PACT Model 1XP costs $130 and the one with Infrared Skyscreens is $170. Nice units and I will buy one if mine ever goes bad. Worth checking out.

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Gary
SWCA 2515

Unless you are going to go hog wild and get a LabRadar, get the cheapest chronograph you can find. When you shoot it and destroy it, it will not make you cry as much.

Any tips on how to aim and not kill the Master Chrony?
Rifles
Handguns with:
Scopes
Red Dots
Irons

Thx
RT

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Have Fun/Stay Safe

I don't own a smartass phone and I wouldn't know an app from a large hole in the ground.

I have been invited to use chronographs by others on the range, and so far I have managed to do so without destroying anything.

Interesting technology, but I started out buying bulk powder from barrels in the gun store for $2 per pound, bring your own containers or take it home in a brown paper bag. High technology arrived on my bench when I was able to afford a dial caliper. My 50-plus year old Ohaus 10-10 scale still works very well. A major Christmas present in 1973 was my Lachmiller powder measure, still going strong.

I have nothing against advancing technology, but I don't feel compelled to be dependent upon the newest, the bestest, or the coolest. I just keep pounding away and making everything work pretty well.

Best regards.

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Life of the party until 8:00PM

I was shown a nifty way of making sure that you don't shoot your chronograph....on a bolt gun remove the bolt and look down the barrel just like bore sighting used to be.

On lever guns and auto loaders he showed me that by taking a target stand with cardboard stapled in place and placing it just behind the last sky screen you now have a good reflective surface.

Next he took a laser pointer from his old teaching days and taped it to the bottom side of the barrel and adjusted the sandbags until the laser point was passing through the sky screens in the middle.

He then took note of where the crosshairs of the scope were and knew he was good to go.

Now, why didn't "I" think of something so simple????

Randy

I have an old PACT Model 1XP for about 15 years and I agree, its not dance but it works well. I have the original sky screen but they now have an Infrared skyscreen system that works well.

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Freedom is never free!!
SWCA #3437

The Chrony units have always scared me and I will not shoot over anybody's unit. They are out of business as far as I know, but Caldwell units are the same. My PACT has just the wing unit downrange that plugs into the base that sits on your shooting bench so you can see the results and can't shoot it. I take extraordinary care when shooting, but have shot two wings in the last 20 years or so. Easy and cheap to replace. I have seen two F1 units shot in the past and if a shooter has never hit their downrange unit they are not using it much. F1 units were over $100 so not much below the price of the standard PACT unit.

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Gary
SWCA 2515

I use one of those scales, too. And it's just about that old.

Still, I'm considering getting a Labradar. My Chrony super-master-pro or whatever it is does fine, except for being a pain to get lined up and leveled between bags and target, but I think the Labradar would be fun. And I'm all about fun. And data.

-Mark

I've used an Oehler 35P for thirty years with zero failures.......I see no need to change.

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S&W Accumulator

I still have a 35P that I bought around 1990 or so. Other than the more convenient setup of the LabRadar, the latter really offers nothing of practical value over the 35P. Both are excellent units.

Since I started reloading this past year I had a tremendous amount to learn. One of the things that bothered me was trying to determine what combinations actually provided the best results. I've asked (here and else where) about chrono's and how people that don't use them actually determine what works and what doesn't.



Most of the time I got a lot of "start Low and work up" or "I've been reloading since Christ was a corporal..." Some folks did chime in (here and else where) and remarked that they do use a chrono and related how they benefited from it.

So I purchased a chrono ( ProChrono DLX - Competition Electronics ) and have been able to monitor my reloads, select the right charge, properly set my bullet depths and maintain a higher level of safety as well. (Yes I know that bullet seating depths is a touch subject and seating depth is a topic for another thread.)


Can you go through life without one? Sure you can.
Will a chrono make you a better shooter? Arguably, YES.


YMMV

I have to admit I reloaded for decades without a chronograph. I didn't get one until I got the long range target shooting bug and needed to determine drop corrections.

I picked up a PACT because I'd seen entirely too many Chrony's go to the big range in the sky. Units with the screens separate from the "brain" can be returned to service in a few minutes with a new screen.

I have that exact (G2) unit. It works indoors, outdoors on sunny or cloudy days. It has never failed me. Been using it for about 5 years. It talks to my smart phone and does all the calculations for me. I did have 2 other brands before this and had lots of trouble with those. This G2 flat works all the time.

Back in the mid-1990's I bought the least expensive chronograph I could find, a Shooting Chrony. This the old, red one. Some said it would not work, it would not be accurate, you really have to buy an expensive one to get reliable results. Turns out they were wrong. I do have to manually record each shot's velocity, but was inexpensive and still works. The Lab Radar looks really interesting, no unit to set up some distance beyond the muzzle and possibly become the target, but those things are expensive.

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VCDL, GOA, NRA

I have the basic wire feed from unit to a table reader unit, by a 20 foot cord.

There are some that will print out data on paper .........
some that will store the data on a chip, to take back to your PC
so you can read and work with the numbers.........
even have the "Blue tooth" new stuff that is way over my head.

Just grab what you think is best for your needs........ and have fun and
aim high !!

Believe me, if I could divest myself from the current technology I'd do it in a second, but, being active in the business requires me to have a smart phone, email, text etc...


Thanks all, I really appreciate your opinions and suggestions. At this point I think I'll take the one and done road and go for the Labradar. I like the idea of not shooting through a structure and it can sit on the range table or tripod for rifle use. Since I'm nearing the 73 year mark, and when the day comes, all my equipment will go to my grandson who is an avid hunter and learning to reload. He gives his grandpa a helping hand in navigating this new technology.

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Never fly the "A" model

Bought Chrony F 1 ,red one, in1991. Used regularly to test handloads and factory ammo rifle and handgun. It works and is accurate. Have not shot the brain . It still works fine.
Jim

Got this one a long time ago, also.
Added some orange tape to place the bullet in the center of the metal rods.

Used it for shotgun, rifle and my pistols and revolvers for ten years, so far so good and it just keeps on ticking.

For those that might be on the fence, this is why I bought mine. I wanted to know how adding a light crimp would affect my existing reloads. First 3 screenshots are not crimped.

After crimping:

There's no way I could get a good feel from just perceived recoil, the chrono put the information in a format I could actually use and understand.

And I thought I was a minimalist!

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"He was kinda funny lookin'"

I have the Caldwell kit. Works pretty well.

From what I have seen, a lot of times the plastic cased chronys get destroyed when people hit the sunshade rods with a bullet. That kind of impact on a steel rod in a plastic holder almost invariably destroys the plastic holder - which is the case of the main unit.

To avoid that problem I bought two 48" pieces of 5/32" fiberglass rod at Grainger. I cut both pieces into three 18" sections which gave me 6 rods - 4 to use and 2 spares. This way if I accidentally hit one of the rods the rod will break without destroying the case of the chrony.

I haven't hit one yet, but the fiberglass rods seem to work every bit as well as the original steel for supporting the sun shades.

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Send lawyers, guns & money...

I started with a basic Chrony model I got second hand. Years later I bought a new deluxe model. I kept the old one and used it mostly for archery.

I finally gave my first one to a friend. The newer one went missing after a move. After months of searching high and low I gave up and ordered one of the deluxe Competition Electronics units from Midway.

It works fine for my use. I do use the smart phone app, I like it. Within a few weeks my wife was getting some luggage out for a trip and guess what she found inside?

Well what do you know? There was my lost Shooting Chrony.

No, a chronograph ain't a necessity. They are nice to have and can be very enlightening.

My first lesson 30 odd years ago was diminishing/vanishing returns from upping the charge on big bore magnum handgun loads. After a certain point, you're only wasting powder.

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GOA
USA Shooting Supporter

That's exactly why I decided it's time to get a chronograph.

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Never fly the "A" model

I'm sure more feature would be nice, but I've been using an old Shooting Chrony F1 for years and it's served my purpose. I believe they may be out of business now, but if it dies someday, I'll probably look for another basic low cost chronograph.

My method for avoiding shooting my Chrony is to always use a target downrange as an aiming point, then adjusting the position of the Chrony so that the path of bullet flight is safely above the unit. It may take a few minutes and several attempts to do it, but it's worth it. The one time I destroyed my Chrony involved an unintentional discharge - I somehow pulled the trigger before the gun was properly aimed.

The idea of using plastic rods instead of steel for the sunshade support is good. I just don't know where I could find any the right size.

BTW, it does appear that Chrony is no longer in business. I cannot find their website, and the various dealers list the Chrony as "Unavailable." Too bad. I imagine they can still be found used on eBay, which is where I bought mine.

I’d avoid a Magnetospeed. Yes, it’s very repeatable and convenient. Attaches right to the barrel, so setup is a piece of cake. Downside is the mass on the barrel affects point of impact and group size. So forget about shooting for velocity and accuracy info at the same time. It also won’t fit on a handgun unless you have something with a long enough barrel and no obstructing front sight.

The final nail in the coffin, though is Magnetospeed’s customer support. The buckle on the strap holding the bayonet broke. Magnetospeed’s flippant, “no we don’t have parts, no we don’t support that, you can buy a new bayonet” answer sealed the deal for me. This is quite unlike most shooting companies. We enjoy great support from most companies, to the point that we become lifelong fans. In my opinion and experience, Magnetospeed doesn’t warrant that loyalty. They just told me to go pound sand.

We've only used the Chrony for airguns and mainly arrows.
Traditional and wheelbows.

We hunt with fishing rods in South Florida and mainly punch paper and smoke clays, XF chokes
Accuracy is all we cared about.

Will be interesting to check our loads in different firearms in the near future.

Loaded some 380acp with 2.0 and 2.2 grs of BE under a 100gr lead, and there was a noticeable difference in recoil in a small SA steel autoloader.
Accuracy was fine with both loads offhand.

I might add that I'm curious as to the velocity of 70+ grains of 4198 under a 300gr JFN in the No.1H/458 WinMag.

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Have Fun/Stay Safe

Yes Crony is dead. I'm still using my Alpha Master, but it is getting pretty beat up.

My advice: make sure that the unit can store a string of at least 10 shots and calculates low, high, average velocities as well as Extreme Spread and Standard Deviation.

One of my pet peeves is a YT video where somebody is yelling out the velocity after each shot.

The bit about “no need to go down range” has been great, for me. If you shoot on a public range, it’s a big benefit. The drawback of the Labradar is that placement of the big, bulky unit is critical. You must get it out close to the muzzle. When it sits on the bench, maybe 18” behind the muzzle, my .300 magnum with muzzle brake will make enough racket to trigger it reliably. Smaller rifles (.223, .243, .308) without brakes will not. I need to make some sort of gizmo to get it out there closer to the muzzle. That’s my winter project. Otherwise, it’s great!

Looks like I'll be waiting till sometime first quarter to get the LabRadar. i checked all the usual sources...Midway..Midsouth..Brownells..etc and countless other web results.

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Never fly the "A" model

Scheels appears to have the Labradar in stock as of a few minutes ago.

Labradar Chronograph | SCHEELS.com

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Have Fun/Stay Safe

One note on distance from a weapon.

I can use 3-4 feet with my 12 Ga. shotgun.....
or ten feet with my pistols, but with a rifle......
with muzzle blast..............
you will get better/steady readings if you set the chrony at 12-15 feet if possible.

Good shooting.

I bought the rods I'm using from Grainger Supply. They are actually fiberglass - which is a lot stiffer than plain plastic.

They sell them in a variety of diameters. 5/32" was what most closely matched the steel rods that came with my Caldwell.

One other thing to mention is that the best way I found to cut them is with a cutting disk in a grinder. It not only cut them cleanly, I was also able to slightly round the cut ends.

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Send lawyers, guns & money...

Thanks, I just checked Scheels and they still have in stock. I've never used them before and never hurts to another source. Thanks again to all for your take on Chronographs...I do appreciate it.

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Never fly the "A" model

I too have been using a Oehler 35p for years. It is the only chrono with a proof channel. LabRadar has too many reported issues for my taste.

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Doug

I assume by LabRadar "issues" you mean problems. What are they? I've had one only about five years and it seems to work fine, but no better than the Oehler 35P I bought thirty years ago. Both machines have features I'll never use, but the LabRadar has a lot more of them. Still, both seem to be good chronographs.

I purchased a Magneto Speed V3. Mainly for rifles. Works great. May be a little tricky for pistols. I have a S&W 460 XVR so it has a longer barrel. I would imagine that you should be able to use it with a revolver that has at least a 3" barrel. You can get a SD card for it and download all data on that. It saves all of you shots and you can start new groups. Even when you unplug it you still have it saved.

I decided on the Labradar and also ordered the Caldwell G2 as a Christmas present for my son. I looked at the magneto speed but couldn't find any info where it would be applicable to a handgun. I can see the advantage for rifle use but I don't shoot the rifles that much anymore...these old shoulders not real keen on that recoil anymore.

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Never fly the "A" model