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Old 03-26-2009, 08:00 PM
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I am trying to create 44Special-powered loads for my Marlin lever rifle and Ruger Bisley, but still using my 44Magnum brass (for accuracy and feeding). My reloading manuals say to use 17.5 grains of 2400 or 11 grains of 800X as the starting load. This is certainly less powerful than the loads I'm used to making, but it still seem a lot more powerful than 44 Specials I am used to. I won't use any of my reloading manual's 44 Special loads because they were designed for 44Special brass which is shorter than the magnum brass. Are there any loads out there you recommend, or any websites I might go to to find out? Thanks.

I have 2400, 800X, and Bullseye powder to work with right now.
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Old 03-26-2009, 08:00 PM
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I am trying to create 44Special-powered loads for my Marlin lever rifle and Ruger Bisley, but still using my 44Magnum brass (for accuracy and feeding). My reloading manuals say to use 17.5 grains of 2400 or 11 grains of 800X as the starting load. This is certainly less powerful than the loads I'm used to making, but it still seem a lot more powerful than 44 Specials I am used to. I won't use any of my reloading manual's 44 Special loads because they were designed for 44Special brass which is shorter than the magnum brass. Are there any loads out there you recommend, or any websites I might go to to find out? Thanks.

I have 2400, 800X, and Bullseye powder to work with right now.
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  #3  
Old 03-26-2009, 09:04 PM
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Lunker;
Here is Hodgdon's Data Center:

http://data.hodgdon.com/cartridge_load.asp

If you go there, pick your cartridge then pick your bullet, then the powder and you have a spread of choices.

As a for instance, loading .44 Magnum cases,using a 240 gr LSWC, you can load with Titegroup from 800fps-1200 fps. That should be a spread broad enough for most any purpose.

Dale53
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Old 03-26-2009, 09:20 PM
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Of your powders I only use 2400. I load a light 16.8 grains and it is not .44 Special light, as you suspect. 1200 fps in my S&W 629 and 1500 fps in my Marlin 1894 SS.

I have a S&W 329PD ... a lite weight .44 magnum. I load 9.2 grains of Unique with a 200 grain GDHP and this shoots .44 Special light in my 329PD and in my Marlin 1894 SS. I use the magnum brass and WLP primers, 1.600 OAL. 1075 fps in the 329PD and 1250 fps in the 1894 SS.

This seems to work satisfactorly in my firearms. Yours might be different. I urge caution when experimenting with light loads. I worked down from a minimum 10.8 grain load I saw in the Lyman manual as I recall.

Be careful and cautious.
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Old 03-26-2009, 09:57 PM
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For the situation you describe, I would submit three thoughts.

1. Case capacity has a marked influence on performance of any given load (powder, bullet, primer, etc). The longer, more capacious .44 magnum case will perform differently than the .44 special case, given the same loading.

2. Light charges in magnum cases can result in ignition problems, including lack of ignition or partial ignition, which might result in a bullet lodged in the bore.

3. Performance in the handgun will be different than performance in the rifle. The rifle, having a longer barrel and sealed breach, will be more likely to fully consume the powder charge prior to the bullet exiting the muzzle. The handgun, having a shorter barrel and a barrel/cylinder gap, will be less likely to convert all of the available energy productively.

I suggest following published data from reputable sources in every respect (case, powder, primer, projectile). Deviation in any of these could result in unwanted consequences. Slower burning powders can be harder to ignite, especially in lighter charges/lower volume to case capacity applications.

For reliable performance in both handgun and rifle in the performance range you specify, you will probably be better off going with powders in the middle of the range, rather than the more slow-burning products.
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Old 03-26-2009, 10:10 PM
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Lunker as LGL said.
I've got a couple I'll post when I get home, a few I'm still using to this day.
Have you ever checked info available from/for the Cowboy Action Shooter folks? There's ton's of those people around now!
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Old 03-26-2009, 11:37 PM
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Of the powders you mention, I'd use Bullseye. Using my cast Keith bullets, 6 grains clocks around 850 fps, 6.5 grains in the low 900s, and 7 grains are a little over a thousand fps.

I tried to use 2400 to make a 1000 fps load in Magnum cases, and it was a mess. Around 16 grains gave that velocity, but I was getting ES up to 100 fps, and it was dirty as hell. Never tried 800X though.
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Old 03-27-2009, 12:05 AM
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When loading for jacketed bullets that aren't bonded, you'll need a minimum velocity for the Marlin that will be rather high in the Bisley. As posted, in addition to the issue of a bullet sticking in the bore is the added issue of bullet separation, ie, jacket remaining in the bore with lead core exiting. If you get two holes on your target, you'll need to increase MV.

Lasercast #1 240gr SWC for rifle .44mag;
H2400 16grs to 20grs; H2400 not listed for .44Spcl rifle loads.

240gr SWC for handgun 44mag; H2400;
19.8grs to 22.4grs.

Handgun .44 Special 240gr SWC H2400;
11.4grs to 13.2grs.

The max .44Special load is considerably less than the amount of powder needed for minimum .44Mag loading with H2400.

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  #9  
Old 03-27-2009, 01:00 AM
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Loading data from Hodgdon loading manual for soft shooting COWBOY Loads

I have highlighted the <span class="ev_code_RED">MAX loads </span> in <span class="ev_code_RED">RED</span>

The black colored loads are Hodgdon suggested starting loads


185 GR bullet LEAD RNFP

UNIVERSAL 6.5 gr. 918 7,700

<span class="ev_code_RED">UNIVERSAL 7.2 gr. 1,059 11,500 </span>

HP38 6.0 gr. 963 10,100

<span class="ev_code_RED">HP38 7.0 gr. 1,088 13,900 </span>

TITEGROUP 5.3 gr. 902 9,500

<span class="ev_code_RED">TITEGROUP 6.5 gr. 1,083 16,400</span>

CLAYS 4.4 gr. 910 8,500

<span class="ev_code_RED">CLAYS 5.5 gr. 1,064 15,500</span>

Trail Boss 6.0 gr. 960 17,200

<span class="ev_code_RED">Trail Boss 8.0 gr. 1086 18,800</span>

UNIVERSAL 6.4 gr. 919 8,400

<span class="ev_code_RED">UNIVERSAL 7.4 gr. 1,070 12,600</span>

HP38 5.9 gr. 906 9,400

<span class="ev_code_RED">HP38 7.2 gr. 1,058 14,700</span>

TITEGROUP 5.3 gr. 902 9,500

<span class="ev_code_RED">TITEGROUP 6.6 gr. 1,082 16,500</span>

CLAYS 4.2 gr. 839 8,900

<span class="ev_code_RED">CLAYS 6.0 gr. 1,043 18,400</span>

Trail Boss 6.2 gr. 936 19,500

<span class="ev_code_RED">Trail Boss 7.8 gr. 1050 21,100</span>
---------------------------------------------

200 GR bullet LEAD RNFP

UNIVERSAL 6.8 gr. 897 10,500

<span class="ev_code_RED">UNIVERSAL 7.8 gr. 1,045 15,400</span>

INTERNATIONAL 5.3 gr. 854 10,000

<span class="ev_code_RED">INTERNATIONAL 6.8 gr. 1,044 18,300</span>

HP38 5.8 gr. 875 10,800

<span class="ev_code_RED">HP38 7.4 gr. 1,039 16,700</span>

TITEGROUP 5.0 gr. 878 11,000

<span class="ev_code_RED">TITEGROUP 6.6 gr. 1,061 17,300</span>

CLAYS 4.2 gr. 785 8,500

<span class="ev_code_RED">CLAYS 6.4 gr. 1,028 20,200</span>

Trail Boss 6.1 gr. 890 17,900

<span class="ev_code_RED">Trail Boss 7.7 gr. 988 20,700</span>
---------------------------------------------

[B]240 GR CAST LRNFP

UNIVERSAL 6.5 gr. 852 11,700

<span class="ev_code_RED">UNIVERSAL 7.6 gr. 1,009 19,900</span>

INTERNATIONAL 4.5 gr. 737 9,900

<span class="ev_code_RED">INTERNATIONAL 6.5 gr. 970 21,700</span>

HP38 5.5 gr. 800 12,000

<span class="ev_code_RED">HP38 7.2 gr. 961 18,400</span>

TITEGROUP 4.7 gr. 801 11,100

<span class="ev_code_RED">TITEGROUP 6.2 gr. 970 18,400</span>

CLAYS 4.3 gr. 759 14,000

<span class="ev_code_RED">CLAYS 6.2 gr. 940 21,800</span>

Trail Boss 6.0 gr. 828 19,100

<span class="ev_code_RED">Trail Boss 7.3 gr. 917 21,600</span>
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  #10  
Old 03-27-2009, 01:59 AM
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I can tell you what I have shot in my firearms. It is well below the minimum prescribed by Alliant for Bullseye powder.

I use a 200gr LRNFP or a 240gr LSWC over 4.5gr of Bullseye for a light, light load.

There are usually "Cowboy Action Loads" available from several sources. Hodgdon used to print up a manual/flier just for that purpose. Not sure how their website deals with that now. Check it out.

Neither of the other two powders are going to lend themselves well to those types of rounds.
Like others have said, Bullseye is your best bet. You can also use just about any 44spl load in a 44Mag case. There are exceptions I suppose.

Ever think of exploring Trail Boss for these loads?
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Old 03-27-2009, 02:23 AM
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Everyones already covered you FAR better than I could?
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  #12  
Old 03-27-2009, 06:09 AM
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what bullets are ya loading for?
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Old 03-27-2009, 06:51 AM
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Quote:
hat bullets are ya loading for?
Sorry, I should have mentioned that. 240 grain in jacketed and cast.
I will be looking at 45Colt loads and also checking out Trail Boss powder.
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  #14  
Old 03-27-2009, 08:50 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Lunker:
I will be looking at 45Colt loads and also checking out Trail Boss powder.
Good choice. I strongly recommend Trail Boss for what you are looking to do. It fills the case nicely and is not position sensitive. Even if you do manage to double charge, it should be OK in a strong 44 Mag firearm (yes, I've tried it, intentionally, in a Ruger Super Redhawk, although NOT RECOMMENDED) as long as you do not compress it. If you stick to Hodgdon's recommended loads you will like it.

I would not feel comfortable using Bullseye unless you are meticulous in ensuring against double or triple charges. It gets excited in a hurry.

4227 is another powder that will work, but will be difficult to load from a progressive press.

My Cowboy Action/target/plinking reduced loads are based on WSF. They deliver around 900fps for a 240gr LSWC.
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Old 03-27-2009, 09:02 AM
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Bullseye is way to easy to double-fill a charge. I only use it for my 45ACP loads now. I would rather use more powder in a case and have to buy more powder, than be able to accidentally double-fill one.
Somebody on a different site recommended using mild 45Colt loads because the case capacity is similar. Do you agree?
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Old 03-27-2009, 09:23 AM
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Because you couldn't find data for the 240gr LSWC in a .44 Mag??

VERY Advanced handloaders sometimes extrapolate data, but that is quite risky unless you know exactly what you are doing, and even then it requires careful consideration. I would not recommend that as a general course of action.

This is Hodgdon's data for Trail Boss loads using the 240 LSWC:

.44 Magnum

STARTING LOAD - Case: Win. / Primer: Rem. 2 1/2 / Barrel: 8.275" / Bullet: .430", 240 grain LSWC / Powder: 6.0 grains Trail Boss / MV 828 fps / MAP: 19,100 PSI.

MAXIMUM LOAD - Case: Win. / Primer: Rem. 2 1/2 / Barrel: 8.275" / Bullet: .430", 240 grain LSWC / Powder: 7.3 grains Trail Boss / MV 917 fps / MAP: 21,600 PSI.
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Old 03-28-2009, 01:24 AM
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Just a word about Trail Boss: I purchased a can looking to make a "working" load of my Keith bullet at around 1000 fps or so. Max loads of Trail Boss, which shows 917 fps, barely managed to break 800 from my 6 inch 29, and then not always was it above 800. It makes a good gallery load, but it just can't reach higher than .45ACP velocities.
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Old 03-28-2009, 04:04 AM
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My old Speer #11 lists 5.5-6.0 grs. Bullseye under a lead semi-wadcutter for 851-916fps. You'll get a bit more speed out of your rifle but it should still be a reasonably light load and let you use the powder you already have. As has been noted, Bullseye requires care to avoid double charges, but this doesn't mean it isn't a great powder. Just be careful.
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  #19  
Old 03-28-2009, 08:03 AM
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Your guns will get higher velocity due to your longer barrel length. Better accuracy is generally attained with those loadings where shot-to-shot variation is low. Again, use manufacturer's data ONLY.


S&W 29-4 3" barrel .44 Magnum Cartridge - mid-range loads, defensive loads

powder grains fps (low-high) fps(avg) Mean deviation Notes
2400 15 823-898 854 28 fps, 3.3%

Unique 8.5 863-903 881 15 fps, 1.7% good choice

Unique 9.0 866-944 914 20 fps, 2.3%

HS-6 9.8 766-796 780 6 fps, 0.78% excellent

W231 8.4 885-896 890 4 fps, 0.47% 1st choice

H4227 17.1 854-870 853 8 fps, 0.98% excellent

H4227 18.5 886-962 912 21 fps, 2.23% not liked.

Gun in 98% condition. Barrel/cylinder gap is 0.003". THESE WORKED IN MY GUN. NO GUARANTEES OF ANY KIND. BE CAREFUL. PUT YOUR TRUST IN MANUFACTURER'S DATA SUCH AS HODGDON.COM
Five rounds fired for each test. Notes: All extractions of fired cases were easy.
1.72 cartridge OAL Starline case, WLP primer, hard-cast bullets
All powder loads measured within +/- 0.1 grain using RCBS digital scale, verified with Ohaus balance scale.

PM44-250K .44Mag .431" diam hardcast 253grains SWC
0.300" meplat, 0.800" OAL
Leadheads Bullets, Inc., St. John, KS 620-549-6475
www.proshootpro.com
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  #20  
Old 03-28-2009, 01:44 PM
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Groo here
Remember that Mag primers are recomended
in the larger magmum case.
Also use a good strong crimp...
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Old 03-28-2009, 02:46 PM
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Sounds like your looking for a load of 7.0gr of Bullseye to me for a 240gr cast bullet. Very accurate and very nice and enjoyable to shoot.

Bullseye performs wonderfully in full house 44 Mag too. Listed max is 9.8gr. I tried 9.4gr and I didn't go above that. No point in it. Still very accurate.
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Old 11-07-2010, 04:30 PM
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I just got a ruger bisley 44 magnum and found that the throats were .430 and shoot the laser-cast swc 240's at .431 best. I have been trying to duplicate my 240 swc loads I shoot in my 44 special ruger and have had to increase the powder by 1/2 - 1 grain to get the same results like other members have said. I started with 5.5 grs of 231 then went on to 6 then 6.5 grains and the 6.5 grs shot the one hole groups I was after. I also went from 5.5 grs of WST to 6 grs of WST to match what I was getting from my 44 special at 5.5 grs. The old stand- by of 7.5grs of Unique was a winner too. I have yet to try 7grs of AA#5 and 7 grs. of Auto Comp, but that's next. It seems that around 850 fps seems to be a good place for light recoil and accuracy. Thanks for every ones input, Semper Fi.
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Old 11-07-2010, 05:50 PM
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USE TRAIL BOSS POWDER. I load heavy 45 Colt-type loads in my 460 mag brass with Trail Boss and 250 gr XTP bullets. I forgot exacty, but those are around 1000-1100 fps.
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Old 11-07-2010, 08:46 PM
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I concur with the previous poster urging caution -- to the point where I don't even bother loading sub-minimum magnum loads (aka, heavy special) anymore. I load specials in special cases, and magnums in magnum cases.

I suppose a careful person, with the aid of a chronograph, caution and a bullet/powder combination with both a special and magnum published load could probably carefully reduce the magnum load below the magnum starting point.

But I'm not sure what the point would be. Even though the gap for the same bullet/powder combo in Special and Magnum loads appears to be 4-5 grains, in my opinion there's not a ton of difference in recoil or terminal ballistics between the "max" Special loading and the starting Magnum loading.

I've shot a lot of 180gr JHPs as maximum Specials and magnums; about the only real difference was that I found the Specials slightly easier to shoot one-handed.
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Old 11-07-2010, 09:02 PM
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My favorite "spl." load in a magnum case is a 250g cast SWC (Lyman 429421) over 7g W231/HP38 with a WLP.

These shoot well out of my Marlin 1894.
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Old 11-08-2010, 12:55 AM
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If you're using a 240 gr. bullet then 9.2 gr. of Unique will launch it at 1077 fps from a 7.5" barrel. That's a pretty limp 44 mag. load.
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Old 11-09-2010, 08:28 AM
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I was just looking at a Handloader where Brian Pearce discusses loads for the 329PD. There are some pretty decent 44 Mag handloads there at reduced velocities. I still stand by my earlier advice in this ancient thread to use Trail Boss for reduced loads in a rifle/carbine, but there are a few favorites in that particular article. It is issue #251, Feb 2008. One old favorite is a 240-250 gr cast bullet with 6.0gr of Red Dot. Velocity is around 850fps in the 329PD. I have used 6.5gr of Green Dot and a 240gr LSWC in my Win 94 Trapper to shoot cowboy lever action silhouette; it is its most accurate load. It gives me a little over 1100fps. Yes, there is a lot of space in the cases so guard against double charges, but those powders are not position sensitive.
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Old 11-09-2010, 08:39 AM
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A very nice loads that were a joy to shoot out of my 4-inch Model 29's was 10.0 grains of Unique and a 250 grain cast bullet (Lyman #429421). I could shoot 40-50 of these at a time with no problem.
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Old 11-09-2010, 09:25 AM
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Normally shoot 2 loads in 44's. 17grs of 2400 with 240 gr LSWC in 44 Special cases or 18 grs of 2400 in 44 Mag cases. Other load is 7.5 grs of Unique in either case with same bullet. I have used 6 grs of Bullseye in Mag cases with 429421's but I don't like to use it since it takes up so little room in the case it is very easy to make a mistake. Have you looked at 5744 or Trailboss?
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Old 11-09-2010, 02:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by running iron View Post
I just got a ruger bisley 44 magnum and found that the throats were .430 and shoot the laser-cast swc 240's at .431 best. I have been trying to duplicate my 240 swc loads I shoot in my 44 special ruger and have had to increase the powder by 1/2 - 1 grain to get the same results like other members have said. I started with 5.5 grs of 231 then went on to 6 then 6.5 grains and the 6.5 grs shot the one hole groups I was after. I also went from 5.5 grs of WST to 6 grs of WST to match what I was getting from my 44 special at 5.5 grs. The old stand- by of 7.5grs of Unique was a winner too. I have yet to try 7grs of AA#5 and 7 grs. of Auto Comp, but that's next. It seems that around 850 fps seems to be a good place for light recoil and accuracy. Thanks for every ones input, Semper Fi.
I just got home from shooting the 7grs. of Auto Comp with a 240gr. SWC and was very pleasantly surprised to see that this load also shot some nice one hole groups at 15 yards. I'm no spring chicken and should wear classes but don't, so I was very happy with my results. This load is the starting load from the Hodgdon web page. I didn't try the AA#5 load even though it is from the Accurate Arms data. At 812 FPS it just seemed a little weak. The Auto Comp is rated at 886 fps but have not checked it yet. I know there are people out there that bad mouth Auto Comp but I have had good results with it from 38 special to 45 acp.
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329pd, 44 magnum, 45acp, 629, 940, bullseye, carbine, cartridge, chronograph, colt, crimp, model 29, primer, rcbs, redhawk, ruger, silhouette, starline, wadcutter

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Reloading Thread, Downloading 44 Magnum to 44 Special in Ammunition-Gunsmithing; I am trying to create 44Special-powered loads for my Marlin lever rifle and Ruger Bisley, but still using my 44Magnum ...
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