I've gotten myself off into a tangent with single shot military pistols. This one I couldn't help myself over. One of the nicest I've ever seen, nearly armory fresh. I have a Remington Roller 50-70 New York Militia rifle and thought this would be a complimentary side arm. These were initially purchased for the Navy right at the end of the Civil War, some modifications were made for the Army in 1871, quite a few were built for the Army although some may have been issued they were never truly used in any conflicts due to the Schofield 1871-72 and S.A.A. Colt coming out in 1873 quickly relegating the single shot to the stock room or armory shelves. This Army model was produced in 50-25, a shortened 50-70 cartridge (.825) I have a good supply of 50-70 but found the cut case too thick to insert the bullet. I did some research and found that shortened 56-50 Spencer cases will do the trick, although a bit thin and narrow at the base of the case, not enough to be a great concern, it has been tried and remains true. With my black powder contacts I did find some 56-50 cases and to my amazement actually already cut, annealed and ready for my loading. I had ordered up some .512 240gr. conicals and fortunately had some extra 50-70 dies to cut down to fit these little monsters. The original load was a 300+gr. bullet over 25grs of holy black. I found that 15grs. of 3F Old Eyensford and a .030 wad provided about the right compression and seated these bullets firmly into the cartridge. Since this is my initial firing which will expand those ever so slightly narrow cases into the chamber I felt it wise to err on the side of caution and not go for broke.

i like it, a lot. interesting gun with a history lesson. thanks for sharing and educating me.

i really like this sight. posts like this keep me coming back for more. thanks again. krs

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Too good

Very nice! I recall as a youngster back in the 60’s several 45/70 rolling block pistols being in my dad’s shop!

I find most 45-70 rifles kittens to shoot, but in a rolling block pistol it would be real tiger.

I have a 50-50 Carbine. My brass are old Dixie brass and were cut to length using a pipe cutter, and very in length by about 1/10. The bullet is a 425 gr of conical design, and are lubed using Bore Butter hand smeared into the lube grooves. If you wish a ,030 cork card or a milk carton card can be pushed tight to the powder, and a cookie of hard lube (50/50 Parafin/Crisco) can be placed under the bullet, 50 grains of FFg Goex. No dies are needed to reload the cases. Cartridges can be assembled using a jaw vise on most work benches, accuracy will run about 2.5" at 50 yards (depending on sights and you eyeballs. In my carbine the felt recoil is very mild.)

Your 50 cal. pistol can be fired in the carbine, but not the other way around. Your Rolling Block 50-70 should work too, if your case's rim is big enough to hold them in the back of the chamber.

If you wish to make future brass from 50-70 brass, the wall thickness will need reamed with a .512 cutter (Forrester makes a case trimmer and reams for this). I wish I had owned the Forrester when I cut my brass to length, but with black powder (or Holy Black) minor variations in cases or powder charges will not make a difference.

Now all you need is a proper Holster and cartridge box. I have no idea what that cartridge box looks like, But Cadets (Navy Midshipmen) used a small rifle in 50 Pistol for training so some pictures should exist.

Springfield built Rolling Block rifles (50-70), Carbines (50-50), Cadet Rifles and Pistols (both in 50 pistol). Loading data is discussed in "Cartridges of the World", should you wish a printed reference.

Ivan

Cartridge box holds nineteen rounds, a flap top and inside has a wooden base...they are out there $$$$, Indian Wars stuff usually carries a hefty price tag. I've read 50/25 can be made from the carbine 50/50 brass, or as you mentioned reamed out 50/70, or from cut down 56/50 Spencer with just a wee bit of slop at the base. I cut down a piece of 50/70 to .825 and it dropped right in the chamber with no drama, however as you said the inside diameter is too thick and needs reaming...56/50 brass was available and convenient, so I went for it. It had been shortened very accurately, inside diameter accepts the .516 bullets well, I have seen where some have taken the standard 50/70 bullet and cut the base back to the next lube groove, reducing it from 455 to roughly 355. I'm going to see how these cases form out once fired and go from there, as mentioned I cut back a set of 50/70 dies so have full reloading capabilities, I will punch the primers out on the bench with my 50/70 gear, drop the fired cases into soapy water and go from there. The cases came fully annealed, the guys did a professional job...thanks Sal "Ammunition Artifacts".

Remington never chambered their rolling block pistols in 45-70. The Models 1865, 1867, 1871 were offered only in a 50 caliber pistol round. The 1891 and 1901 Target pistols used a wide variety of pistol calibers, including 45 Colt and 44 Russian.

I love the old big bore guns and am amazed at how big the bores were in the last half of the 1800s. Used to own several 577 Snider rifles just because the caliber was so big. Tried to buy a 577 revolver, but they were way beyond my budget. The largest caliber I ever owned was a French 1867 17.5mm breech-loading conversion of a 1857 musket called a Tabatière. Both the English Snider and the French Tabatière were notoriously inaccurate, plus they hurt a lot when shot. The 50 Remington Pistol was heavy, so not a lot of recoil partially because they held a small amount of powder.

Attached Images

	Cartridge Comparisons.jpg (55.5 KB, 14 views)
	17.5 (.70) French Military.jpg (47.3 KB, 8 views)

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Gary
SWCA 2515

I found this to be the closest to actual information regarding the differences in Remington Roller pistols.


The first version: .50 Remington Navy (M67) was introduced in the U.S.A., around 1866 for the Navy Model 1867 (M67) rolling block pistol and was a straight, with very slight taper, rim-fired cartridge and later as a straight walled center-fire case.
The later years .50 Remington (M71) Army was a “bottle necked” case for the Remington Army Model 1871 rolling block pistol introduced in 1870 had an “Inside Primed” Benet Cup internal primed center-fired cartridge.
Then later, sometime around 1873, the cartridge primer changed to an external primed (Martin Primed) and later to a regular, more modern, outside primed case.
Ammunition was loaded by both Remington and Winchester and was available until about 1920, making this caliber obsolete for over 96 years on regular primed and up to 146 years on inside primed at this writing.
The Army (M71) version has a large diameter projectile and will not fire in the Navy (M67) rolling block pistol.


As most wildcatters have known since the beginning, just about anything will work if the basics of cartridge foundation are applied. One of the many reasons I find muzzle loading so interesting is that not only does each powder charge give a different result, powder manufacture and even case lot, granulation of powder (F, F.5, FF, FFF, FFFF) diameter of ball, lead composition, patch material and thickness, lube, clean barrel vs fouled barrel...all of which can be accomplished with each individual shot and when everything comes together results can be as dramatic as every round in one hole, which then takes into consideration the temperature of the barrel as it warms, relative humidity change, etc. Something so simple can be as complex as you choose to make it.