Smith & Wesson Forum

Advertise With Us Search
Go Back   Smith & Wesson Forum > Ammunition-Gunsmithing > Reloading

Notices

Reloading All Reloading Topics Go Here


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 01-13-2022, 12:42 PM
rockquarry rockquarry is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 7,575
Likes: 4
Liked 8,917 Times in 4,135 Posts
Default primer comparison

Nowadays, particularly with component shortages, primer interchangeability often comes up. I did some limited, informal testing along these lines this morning.

Using a common mild target load of 3.6 grains Bullseye powder and a 200 grain H&G #68-style cast SWC bullet from a SAECO mould, I compared the CCI-300 large pistol primer with the CCI-350 magnum large pistol primer.
The 300s were purchased in the last two to three years while the 350s were from the 70s.

I fired groups from a benchrest setup at 25 yards using a Colt 1911 A1 from the mid-1950s. I didn't measure group sizes, only eyeballed them; they were the same. The magnum primers had an average muzzle velocity 11 fps greater than the standard primers, so virtually no difference.

Again, this was very limited testing with one mild load; results might vary considerably in other instances.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #2  
Old 01-13-2022, 02:04 PM
alwslate alwslate is offline
Member
primer comparison primer comparison primer comparison primer comparison primer comparison  
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: Indiana
Posts: 6,628
Likes: 3,723
Liked 7,218 Times in 3,013 Posts
Default

Your results are typical I would say. I have done a lot of comparison tests with my chronographed handloads with different primers with loads from light to heavy. The dreaded word MAGNUM sends some handloaders into panic mode. Magnum primer effect on light to moderate loads is insignificant.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #3  
Old 01-13-2022, 02:05 PM
jjfitch jjfitch is offline
Member
primer comparison primer comparison primer comparison primer comparison primer comparison  
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: PNW
Posts: 521
Likes: 201
Liked 537 Times in 278 Posts
Default Brisance

This subject has been beat to death over the past several years due to primer shortages. What you are experiencing is common.

Magnum primer application doesn't automatically translate to higher velocity, pressure or S/D!

Magnum primers by design provide a LONGER spark or brisance. It is a solution to better ignition of slower burning powders like W296 H110 and 2400.

If close to maximum pressure logic says to reduce the charge and work up looking for signs of "over pressure"!

Use Magnum primers. Use common sense. Follow safety protocols when deviating from standard loads.

Everything you ever wanted to know about primers:

Primer Info & Chart + Milspec Primers for Semi-Autos & Other Primer Applications

Smiles,

Last edited by jjfitch; 01-14-2022 at 10:57 AM. Reason: Syntax
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
  #4  
Old 01-13-2022, 02:33 PM
Tu_S Tu_S is offline
Member
primer comparison primer comparison primer comparison primer comparison primer comparison  
Join Date: Oct 2021
Posts: 377
Likes: 407
Liked 463 Times in 163 Posts
Default

In the various tests I have seen or read about in the last year and a half I have noticed that the results will vary.

I have noticed that those who tested with a faster burning powder tend to say that nothing changed, but something slower seems to produce an increase in velocity, and you're results fit this trend.

Would be curious on what you would see if you used the same bullet and pistol with a load of 8grn of HS-6 and retested.

For me, no matter what the results, there won't be enough to draw any conclusions, but it would be more valid test data than comparing the one offs that different people have reported.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 01-13-2022, 03:09 PM
DWalt's Avatar
DWalt DWalt is offline
Member
primer comparison primer comparison primer comparison primer comparison primer comparison  
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: South Texas & San Antonio
Posts: 33,603
Likes: 240
Liked 29,111 Times in 14,074 Posts
Default

There is probably more variation in performance among different primer brands than there is between Magnum and Standard primers of the same brand, rifle or handgun. My only experience goes back many years when I ran some extensive tests of CCI SP vs. CCI SR primers in .38 Special. No significant differences were found in either MV or grouping. Since then, I have used mainly SR primers in most handgun loads.
Reply With Quote
The Following 2 Users Like Post:
  #6  
Old 01-13-2022, 03:56 PM
Arm's Avatar
Arm Arm is offline
US Veteran
primer comparison primer comparison primer comparison primer comparison primer comparison  
Join Date: May 2016
Location: Pa
Posts: 375
Likes: 238
Liked 1,391 Times in 226 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DWalt View Post
There is probably more variation in performance among different primer brands than there is between Magnum and Standard primers of the same brand, rifle or handgun. My only experience goes back many years when I ran some extensive tests of CCI SP vs. CCI SR primers in .38 Special. No significant differences were found in either MV or grouping. Since then, I have used mainly SR primers in most handgun loads.
I'm on the same page. Been using Federal SR primers for my revolvers/pistols with no significant change in any form, however, I found that some striker fired pistols will not set off the thicker cup, not all just a couple. Revolvers made no problems, go off every time. I have plenty of SR primers but my SP primers are dismal.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 01-13-2022, 04:34 PM
rockquarry rockquarry is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 7,575
Likes: 4
Liked 8,917 Times in 4,135 Posts
Default

I apparently didn't make it clear in the original post that my testing was brief and limited to only two primers.

I did some fairly extensive testing some years back using an assortment of (eight) American-made small pistol primers, standard and magnum. Using the .357 cartridge in a 6" Python, I loaded #2400 powder and the H&G #51 160 grain cast SWC bullet. I fired five, five-shot groups with each primer.

Velocities varied up to about 75 fps but accuracy was measurably different, with the most accurate primer providing an average group size about 30% smaller than the least accurate primer.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 01-13-2022, 09:28 PM
DWalt's Avatar
DWalt DWalt is offline
Member
primer comparison primer comparison primer comparison primer comparison primer comparison  
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: South Texas & San Antonio
Posts: 33,603
Likes: 240
Liked 29,111 Times in 14,074 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by rockquarry View Post
I apparently didn't make it clear in the original post that my testing was brief and limited to only two primers.

I did some fairly extensive testing some years back using an assortment of (eight) American-made small pistol primers, standard and magnum. Using the .357 cartridge in a 6" Python, I loaded #2400 powder and the H&G #51 160 grain cast SWC bullet. I fired five, five-shot groups with each primer.

Velocities varied up to about 75 fps but accuracy was measurably different, with the most accurate primer providing an average group size about 30% smaller than the least accurate primer.
What you found may be true, but firing five 5-shot groups is inadequate to achieve a reliable level of statistical confidence in results if you are speaking of group size (extreme spread). The absolute bare minimum to REALLY begin seeing differences in relative grouping performance requires an average ES of five 10-shot groups as a basis for comparison, and firing more than five such groups would be even better. Anything less is just wasting ammunition and time.

I have developed a rigorous computerized statistical model of group size some years ago, and the results are indisputable.

Last edited by DWalt; 01-13-2022 at 09:39 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 01-13-2022, 09:40 PM
rockquarry rockquarry is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Posts: 7,575
Likes: 4
Liked 8,917 Times in 4,135 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by DWalt View Post
What you found may be true, but firing five 5-shot groups is inadequate to achieve a reliable level of statistical confidence in results if you are speaking of group size (extreme spread). The absolute bare minimum to REALLY begin seeing differences in relative grouping performance requires an average ES of five 10-shot groups as a basis for comparison, and firing more than five such groups would be even better. Anything less is just wasting ammunition and time.

I have developed computerized statistical modeling of group size some years ago, and the results are indisputable.
My testing protocol may be flawed, but interesting, enjoyable, and adequate for my purposes.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 01-13-2022, 10:33 PM
Nevada Ed's Avatar
Nevada Ed Nevada Ed is offline
US Veteran
primer comparison primer comparison primer comparison primer comparison primer comparison  
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Reno Nv
Posts: 13,401
Likes: 3,189
Liked 12,760 Times in 5,686 Posts
Default

I normally use cci primers in my reloading.

However I have noticed in rifle and revolver that there IS................
a difference in cci and winchester primers in my tests.

A little lower fps with standard primers in 38/357 loadings but........
the standard primer in 30-06 with IMR4350 and a 180 gr bullet
cut my groups in half.

They are all good..............
you just have to get the correct "Mix" in your testings.
Reply With Quote
The Following User Likes This Post:
Reply


Posting Rules
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Primer comparison question jmclfrsh Reloading 47 12-17-2017 12:32 AM
comparison barbourman04 Smith & Wesson M&P Pistols 0 12-14-2014 03:25 PM
686-327 comparison tom- S&W Revolvers: 1980 to the Present 13 09-06-2014 06:56 AM
Primer & Primer Pocket Dimensions - SAAMI gsparesa Reloading 1 05-06-2012 03:34 PM
What a comparison ancient-one The Lounge 9 05-08-2010 12:19 PM

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
smith-wessonforum.com tested by Norton Internet Security smith-wessonforum.com tested by McAfee Internet Security

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:44 AM.


Smith-WessonForum.com is not affiliated with Smith & Wesson Holding Corporation (NASDAQ Global Select: SWHC)