I have a 2nd model .32 S&W Safety Hammerless that is in excellent condition and I am looking to load up some low pressure ammo for an 1887 antique. I have a number of powders available: Hodgdon FFFG Triple Seven and FFG and others. I have lead cast bullets of 85-90 grs plus others. Need your help in cooking up a safe load for this beautiful old gun. Please comment.

The Hodgdon Cowboy Action Data sheet from 1998 lists a load for "belly guns" (old weak top break revolvers, many not as strong as your Safety Hammerless)

HP-38 1.6 grain (600 fps) 1.9grain (700 fps)

WW 231 is the same powder and uses the same data.

I have a 1st model in 38 S&W and use their data for that gun.

Ivan

.32 S&W is a pain to load, almost too small to handle. Depending on the bullet weight, typical loads will be 1.5 to 2 grains of any of the faster burning smokeless propellants, such as Bullseye. If using BP or substitutes, load the case to the base of the bullet.

You will need a very-very accurate scale. I only load by weighing each and every charge. Have used everything from 76 to 88 grain bullets and try to keep velocities down to around 600 fps. Using a chronograph is a very good option for the 32 S&W since a very small increase in powder charge can send your load over 800 fps in a heartbeat. One suggestion is to use a 32 Long revolver to do your chronograph work and get the loads into the ballpark, then load lighter to heavier in your 32 Safety. Take the loads to the range and start low and stop when you get to your target velocity. Dump the rest and you have the proper load for your particular barrel length and model.

l have done quite a bit of work on factory ammunition and can let you know that if you want hot and dirty results, fill the case with 4F BP. The following comparison of original, 1900 era factory loads, and current factory loads is quite revealing.

88 BP - 10 grains - 740 fps - Peters
85 BP - 8 grains - 800 fps - US Cartridge
85 Factory - Winchester - 540 fps
88 Factory - Remington - 580 fps

My approach is to use a bulky powder to fill the case which keeps SD low. Trail Boss works best for me. I tested and ended up with using a 76 grain (.313") RNFP, 1.2 grains Trail Boss which gave me 654 fps out of a 6" barreled 32 Safety. Shorter barrels will give lower velocities. The light bullet from Hunters Supply lowers pressure and Trail Boss gives a very mild recoil. Is it the most accurate reload out there? I do not know, but my little 32 S&Ws work great with this load, and every gun below is fed a regular diet of the little pills with no ill effects. The longer the barrel, the more accurate they are in my hands.

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Gary
SWCA 2515

I was hoping that someone would bring up Trail Boss powder.........
for the old war horse.

Thank you.

For my 32 S&W safety hammerless I use .7-.8 gr Trailboss with 84 and 87 gr cast lead RNs. Used a Lee .17cc dipper and got pretty good at getting consistent charges. You can make your own dipper by trimming down a suitable empty cartridge case. The thing to remember with Trailboss is to not compress the powder when seating the bullet.
I've also used black powder but that was a short lived endeavor. Barely got through three cylinders of shooting before the gun jammed up from the residue. When using black powder the case must be full with a little bit of compression.

The Trailboss loads had much less felt recoil than black powder and I thought BP had more oomph than regular factory loads.

John

Be careful with the smokeless powders. Repeated heavy loading of smokeless, can bend the frame back at the latch. I have a 4th model DA in 32 S&W. I went to the Hodgdon Cowboy manual, pocket pistol section to get my data. I ultimately chose 1.1 gr of HP38 (same as 231 ), with a 80 gr bullet. I get 600 fps from it, which was much higher than I expected, and I stopped right there.

Every gun is different. The steel used in these old revolvers is not that great, good enough for BP, but iffy for smokeless, so keep the charges low.

Show me just one example of this happening in the last 100 years? I have been looking for years to prove this old-wives-tale . . . and "Heavy" loading of a 44 Magnum can do more than bend the frame. We are not talking about heavy loading and if you look at BP velocities for 32 S&W, that was heavy loading for me!

Standard structural steel at the turn of the 20th Century was over 30,000 psi working pressure, and ultimate strength, or failure of the steel, would have been double that. Standard loads for 32 S&W was around 14,000 psi. It is not known what strength steel was used by the factory in the late 1800 to early 1900s, but be assured it was above that of standard steel, likely around 40,000 psi so 32 S&W loads were handled with ease

Also, opinions vary, but please do not use a dipper for loading such a small amount of powder. I might be the exception, but I cannot drop the exact same load each time I use a dipper. My loading process is to dip and weigh and I can easily see as much as a 20% difference in weight from load to load, so a scale is not only prudent, but the only way to guarantee accuracy with such a small amount of powder.

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Gary
SWCA 2515

The Lyman #50 (iron hopper) and Lyman #55 (clear or aluminum hopper) were designed to drop accurate small charges. The feature that makes this possible is the "Hammer". The hammer looks and works like a tiny door knocker. (You just flick it up and let it drop down.) Makes very consistent powder charges. I have the Black Powder variant (aluminum hopper), don't try BP in a standard model!

I have produced similar results using a screw driver handle to lightly smack the powder drop near the powder chamber. Raise the handle and whack, lower handle and whack! Do this when adjusting too.

That works on 32 ACP, on 32 S&W, and on 32 S&W Long. I do this with HP-38, WW-231, Unique, Bullseye, and Trail Boss powders.

In SASS and CAS we have a side match where we shoot playing cards on edge at 5 yards, these loads are that accurate. (I use a Davis Derringer in 32 ACP with 32 short loading data and cast 78 gr RN bullets.) Many people use Iver Johnson or S&W top breaks. Only 32 S&W, 32 S&W Long and 38 S&W calibers are permitted. (No rim fires)

Ivan

Glowe, Seems I found a large batch of 76gr cast lead bullets in my garage that I was not aware of having, pack rat that I am. Must have acquired them at a gun show a long, long time ago back when I was shooting my S&W 1 1/2 at SSAS using BP. Its amazing what you can find in a 50 year accumulation of shooting stuff. I will try out your recipe as soon as my 50 brass cases get here. I appreciate everyone's comments. The old gun that I will be taking to the range is serial number 43212 making it an early Safety Hammerless from the 1880s.

Heavy loads are loads that are too heavy for the frame to survive without bending. The definition of heavy is, loads that are above the suggested starting loads. The break top frames are not supported at the top. The latch gives no real support. The recoil shield will eventually bend back, not giving proper contact for the latch, and the latch will fly open upon firing. I have had this happen on an old breaktop revolver. It may only take a few tenth of a grain increase of powder, to get into this territory. It took a lot of aggrivation to get it back in proper alignment again. It was a lesson learned.

Don't forget to start lighter, as I mentioned above, and work your way up to acceptable velocities, maybe start at just under 1 grain TB with that 76 grain lead bullet. For me, 550 fps is plenty fast enough in a shorter barrel and matches today's modern commercial loadings with heavier bullets. If you do not have a chronograph, find someone who does for testing, do not guess.

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Gary
SWCA 2515