Found a local shop with some stock...$0.14 to $0.15 per. They had about 10,000 or 12,000 on the shelf..

Robert

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Robert
SWCA #2906, SWHF #760

I'll find another hobby before I pay $150 for a box of primers.

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Centennial Every Day

That comes with a free meal card for the Outback, right ?

Do they kiss you first?

What a great deal! I did not know Elon Musk was a reloader.

No it’s not a great deal but it’s still cheaper than buying range ammo off the shelf and allows you to taylor your loads as you wish. If I didn’t already have some primers on hand I think I’d jump at $150 per 1,000 and chootem.

In the good times I paid $.032 per primer. I wont stop shooting for an extra dime per shot, if I was desperate. I certainly will NOT stock up st those prices though. Every presidential election we go through this. However covid seems to have made this silliness stay longer.
..

There are four primer manufacturers in the USA: Olin (Winchester), CCI, Remington, and Federal. The three latter companies are all subsidiaries of Vista Outdoors.
They (Vista) are not going to let these three companies start competing with each other. Their output is being overwhelmingly diverted to overpriced factory ammo.
Vista Outdoor is not your friend. They don't care about reloading. You will not find a Vernon Speer, Fred Huntington, or Joyce Hornady on their Board of Directors. Their subsidiary holdings cover a vast array of outdoor products, a lot of which have nothing to do with guns or shooting.

Their stock trades on the NYSE under the name VSTO. It is a fairly volatile stock, varying in price over the last five years from under $10 to over $50 a share. The value of the stock also uncannily parallels the national tenor regarding gun control. Look at the attached chart and compare the stock value over the past few years compared to the rhetoric coming out of Washington D.C. When things look bad for American gun owners, they look great for Vista Outdoor and their shareholders.

Share prices right now are about $36 a share. Market forecasters predict this price will rise to at least $60, perhaps $70 within the next year.

That should tell you a lot!
Like, primer prices won't be coming down as long as Vista can play puppet master with the market.

Hopefully, the talk of a new primer manufacturer in Texas will come to be realized by 2023.

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Seeing as how we do not mine metals nor manufacture chemicals or anything else like we did 50 years ago, I'd say that getting all the materials imported in a timely fashion has become a limiting factor in production of primers and just about everything else.

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VCDL, GOA, NRA

After reading their corporate profile I will go out of my way to not use any of their holdings.

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Never fly the "A" model

D I T T O ! If the gun/shooting industry wants to screw things up, all they (people like this $150/1000 guy) have to do is keep doing what they’re doing, maybe expand on it a little bit, and pretty soon all but the most diehard among us will drift away. The only weapon we have is NOT to pay their stupid prices.

Incorrect. 68% of their sales come from their Shooting Sports category, and 32% from Outdoor Products which is what they call everything else.

It seems somewhat contradictory to state the share price follows the gun market on the one hand, yet claim most of their business has nothing to do with the Shooting Sports.

Yes, the old guard is long gone. They died, what can I say. Vista owns the Alliant Powder, RCBS, and Speer brands. Hard to believe they are willing to just toss those brands by giving up on the reloading segments.

What passes for our free market should be along eventually and increase supply. It won't happen until the supply chain opens up. There's any number of possible reasons (or a combination thereof) primer prices are so high. But until the factories that produce them can get back to running at capacity prices will be high.

Any manufacturer will tell you that cost per unit skyrockets as production falls. But the reverse is also true. In the real world it's not possible to run significantly below capacity and just make up for it with higher prices. The revenue per unit goes up but not as fast as the costs. I've seen many, many try it. None succeeded.

In fact, it's entirely possible (though not most likely) that lack of materials and labor has done just that. It could be that these current prices do actually represent a large increase in manufacturing costs. Maybe those reloaders that purchase at these prices are actually saving the industry from just shutting down! OK I admit that's a bit of a stretch.

If they are running flat-out and this is all due to a huge surge in demand then eventually the supply will rise to meet demand. Nobody wants to leave money on the table.

In reality it's probably a little bit of both. Production has been curtailed a bit, and demand is up. But things are getting better slowly.

Just 15 months ago Lee Loaders were selling for crazy prices. Now they are $40 or less.

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If you gotta have them you gotta have them but if you don’t just keep using from your stockpile even if it hurts to see that pile get smaller. Another thought might be to horse trade a firearm that you don’t use or particularly like for primers.

I disagree with most everything you said. Remington went bankrupt, that's why they are now part of Vista. In 2008 when Obama was elected S&W stock quadrupled, but didn't last all that long. They can't just double their production overnight like their stock price did. I have no idea what wholesale prices are from the manufacturers but I don't think anyone else does either. They have undoubtably gone up; labor shortage, raw material costs, shipping, energy. The retail dealers are the ones that are setting the prices, strictly up to them and what they think the market will bear. But you can't really blame them, they're just trying to survive.Take a small shop, say they used to make a thousand a month on primer sales, but they've been thru this before so they know they may not get any more inventory for the next six months, or more. So what would you do, sell the rest of your inventory at $30/m and cut your paycheck or jack up the price to $80, or more, so you can pay the rent and feed your family?
Our current situation; politics, pandemics, new gun owners and skyrocketing gun sales, (relate back to politics), huge demand for ammo and components and government interference. What it is not is corporations desire to rule the world.

Well the way it seems right at this point is the bottom end for primer prices is at 70-75 dollars per 1000...Mostare higher. Cost for raw materials has approx doubled as has per hour wages for employees (reg time +OT) Then add inflation for shipping costs (man-dealer). I am predicting even when they catch up the price of components will stay at the 70-80 dollar range for primers anyway. Powder prices may drop a little but not much. Also don't forget add a little more for taxes because of the increased cost. If you paid 35 before this all happened and the price goes to 70...double sales tax. Shipping charges if you buy online will also rise as will hazmat fees. Not much help I know...but figure it out yourself. I dislike it too. Just trying to be realistic

Two primer companies are not selling in the US. Wolf / Tula (Russian) primers and ammo are not imported now because of US government sanctions. Gensia (?) primers (Serbia / Bosnia) were shut down by their government because of internal corporate corruption.

This did not do reloaders any favors. The primer "User" chain is fairly short: 1] Military (government) ammo production, 2] commercial ammo production, 3] excess inventory to consumer/reloader market. #1 and#2 have taken the domestic primer market.

I am fortunate to have traded primers in excess for primers I needed. Four lesser surgeries drastically curbed my shooting. My primer supply will last at least until 22 RF has more reasonable prices. At 74, both shoulders repaired surgically, makes me a believer in 22 LR. I don't have to pickup brass, reload brass or change targets at 200 yards.

In 1974 I was gifted a Lee 30-06 Loader, that became RCBS reloading equipment. I don't plan on buying any caliber Lee Loader for $150 +.

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S&WHF 366

A short time ago today I put 2 x1000 SPP in my cart at real not scammer online seller that were listed as available but a few seconds later in checkout my cart was empty and the status change from available to out of stock.

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NEVER GIVE UP YOUR GUN

I don't know anything, so whatever I say is just speculation. So, don't take my words as gospel.

Primers will level out at $45 - $50 a 1000. But 2 things have to happen first.

All the people buying at $150 have to stop it. As long as there is demand with low supply, there is no reason to cut prices.

Secondly, the politics need to swing back the other way.

Both of these things WILL happen, like just in the past, it's just a matter of how long we all want to wait.

Whatever the excuse of the day is, primers are not being made to meet the demand. I guarantee the companies are making a killing off these high prices. We are in the third year of this. No excuse at this point. I know there are issues at hand but I’m not having a problem getting any other product with this level of difficulty. And I’m tired of hearing about the new shooters. New shooters bought a box or two and that’s it. Gun prices are dropping so there’s no huge amount of new shooters anymore.

I have enough to last me a few years at my rate but I don’t like continuing to see empty shelves. Enough, already. If this is the end of the reloading industry then just say so and stop with the excuses.

well, between recent purchases at $150/1000, some at $60/1000 and some small purchases at $20/100, Some trading and some older stock, my average cost for a little over 10,000 primers if probably about $0.10.

with bullets running about 10 cents and my average primer cost the same, loaded ammo is about 25 cents per round. How many of us are still buying ammo for $12.50 a box.

Between loaded ammo and components, I have enough now to last me probably 10 years. By then $150/1000 will probably seem a bargain.

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Robert
SWCA #2906, SWHF #760

Time to make a small primer making machine. a 1hp motor and hydraulic pump running a small press kicking out cups, another set of dies to make anvils. Some brass sheet and some lead styphenate, barium nitrate, antimony sulfide, tetrazine and powdered glass and your in business.

Os course you better study up on safe handling of those or you would be in orbit rather than business. Even today priming compound is handled in small batches and each stage is isolated from the other stages and there s a lot of hand labor involved

I started saving spend primers years ago. Why not, the don't take up much room. If you really had to you could pop out the anvils use a punch and die to reform the cup, make a sheet for the cups so you could fill them with primer "paste" made of the correct compound and install and anvils

Nothing is impossible.

With Berdan primers it would be even easier.

You may be right, but I hope you're not. Maybe labor, maybe parts, I dunno. But if its a deliberate choice for whatever reason, the Manufacturers need to be held accountable. Don't buy their products or sell their stock.

What effect does the shortage of primers and powder have on the manufacturers of reloading equipment?
Last I heard, Dillon is doing record business. Many products are posted as backordered, with delay times of well over a year.
This is posted on their website:

"We Have Not Forgotten About You

Customers with existing carbide die backorders, we have not forgotten about you! Die orders are filled based on the date they were placed, oldest orders first. Because we refuse to shift carbide production to China, we have been slower to get caught up on demand. However, the dates shown for newly placed orders do reflect that our carbide suppliers are steadily increasing output, without compromising the quality everyone expects from Dillon Precision. We appreciate your patience and your loyalty to Dillon Precision."

Good for Dillon, on multiple counts. Glad to see they appreciate their customers. And, glad to see they aren't outsourcing to China! I wish the entire industry acted this way!
But the question remains: "Why buy machinery if you can't get the 'fuel' to use it?"
Strange times.
This is getting very tiresome.

IMO Dillon is doing it right. The worst thing when ordering online is waiting forever for a shipment without knowing why you aren't getting your product. When a company reaches out like that they put your mind at ease and you know they care like said above.

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Freedom is never free!!
SWCA #3437

Who says record business? Them?

This sounds like a whole different scenario.

Seems like people won't work any more. I recently needed to have a lawn tractor repaired. Same shop doing business with for many years. It took forever to even get it picked up. The excuse was can't get drivers to come in every day. No mechanics in the shop. They have signs posted re. hiring but nobody applies.

So, I question whether Dillon is selling more than ever before, or they can't sell much because they don't have employees?

It makes no sense to me that equipment is being oversold, when we all know that components are unobtainable.

Good points!

Interestingly, though, Dillon keeps adding new products, many of which are pushing the envelope of "high end".
They have both the 1050 and 1100 commercial type presses, a new brass processing press, and now automation equipment in the $2-3,000 range.
So, is this gear that is actually being manufactured and shipped, or does it just exist on the drawing board???

If it's the former case, who's got the components (powder, primers, etc) to feed the darned things?

I got into reloading in the spring of 2013, 6 months after Newtown. Ordered the press and everything else on Amazon. Was at my door in a few days. Got primers and powder with very little trouble. The shop would only sell me 500 primers and I had to use Red Dot since nothing else was available, but I was making ammo 6 months after Sandy Hook. By Christmas of 2013, components were easily obtainable.

I’ve been advocating reloading since then. Now I tell people who ask to not bother buying anything until components are available. It is utterly stupid to start reloading now with components being so scarce.

Where there is a demand the market responds. Shooters are being screwed over by the industry we have been keeping in business for decades. My local shop has gotten exactly TWO bricks of primers into his shop in over 2 years. This isn’t about new shooters or hoarders. There is nothing to hoard. Maybe the big box stores are getting some product, but I have none of those anywhere near me, and I’m sure not going to drive 2 hours for a maybe.

A question for the long time reloaders here: have you EVER seen over a 2 year drought with no end in sight, like what is happening now?

Business is booming....

Tucson AZ show this weekend: Primers running $130 for the most part, with some people actually selling some SPPs at $100 and some having fantasies of $200.
Powder looks like about $40/lb with generally good availability.

No, not in my neck of the woods.

I always have a good supply on hand, and have never run out. Maybe got down to my last brick, but then November came again and the supplies went back up.

I ordered several bricks online in March, 2020. All were in stock, and at a SALE price of $28.99. I kick myself for not ordering more. A few days later the Covid taskforce was on TV so I tries to order more, but 100% was outa stock.

Never seen the shortage last this long ever..and it ain't over...I think 2 more years. The powers that be DO want us unarmed though...so maybe longer(said tongue in cheek)! But the last time we had 4 primer manufacturers R,F, W and CCI and people who were not getting paid to not go to work..and a lot of imported components/ammo

Yeah. I’ve talked to some real old timers with 40 years or more reloading and they’ve never seen this. I figure it’s gonna be another couple of years, and by then many of us will have been beaten down enough that we’ll be happy to pay $100 a brick. Which may have been the point all along. At this point I’m thinking the manufacturers have seized on the moment to charge triple what they used to.

My guy at Buffalo Arms told me that reloading components are all on the back burner until they get the shelves restocked with loaded ammo, which is where the money is. There was also a huge order put in from the military, homeland security and believe it or not the USPS. He told me that we should not be expecting to pick primers, etc. up for a reasonable price until mid 2023. Most of us at the club will look out for each other, nobody really wants to shoot alone...Now is the time to be trading stuff you don't use all that much for what you do, small rifle primers for large pistol, etc.
Black powder was the major problem with Hodgden going out of the black business entirely, closing the Goex plant. It was bought by the Estes company who plan on relocating and upgrading with plans to reopen early to mid 2023. In the meantime, the only outlet is Swiss and Schuetzen, both tied up with shipping problems. Percussion caps are built on the same equipment that makes .22 cartridges and take the back seat, again we are hoping on our european friends to keep us burning black.

Think about this before you accuse the manufacturers of gouging. Flat rolled steel, which primers are made of, went from $.035 per pound to $1.25 per pound for a while, now it's down to about $0.80 or so. LAbor costs have gone up. Transportation costs are up, with diesel going from $1.80 to over $5 per gallon. Let's face it, inflation is up nearly 10%, costs in the manufacturing and transport are 3 to 4 times what they were. And you guy still expect to buy primers for 4 cents.?

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Robert
SWCA #2906, SWHF #760

Considering the product delays and massive cost increases I see at my 9ta5, I suppose I shouldn't be surprised. We all want to get the most for our hardearned dollar and manufacturers aren't in this for fun.

That being said, I'll continue to whine and complain cuz it's my right to be a crusty ol' coot.

No I don't expect to pay $40 a brick. I would like to be able to pick them up at $60-$70 if I choose to. The problem is they're not on shelves at all.

My primers are brass , no steel involved. I believe you are misinformed.

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Grumpy Old Man With a Gun

Diesel fuel is now up over 6$ a gallon. The country is about to go off a recession cliff. As much as I like to shoot and reload, my big worry is how am I going to heat my house and will food continue to be available in the quantities and varieties that I am used to. Primers? Not so much. I afraid we have a lot more discomfort to go through before things start to stabilize.

I misapoke and stand corrected, but metal prices, including brass are at 10 year highs.

Metals prices at multi-year highs as supply plays catch-up with demand recovery | S&P Global Commodity Insights

Robert

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Robert
SWCA #2906, SWHF #760

and if they are nickle plated it is worse. Nickel has hit $100,000 a metric ton. I would not stand on my feet all day in a explosion proof cubicle spreading highly volatile paste into primer cups for peanuts if there was other work around and right now there is plenty of other work.

As far as people not wanting to work in 2019 there were 157.54 million people employed in US Currently there are 159.82 million. 2.3 million more than 3 years ago.

You are not the only one to think this way.

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VCDL, GOA, NRA

Brownell's has small rifle magnum(CCI) and small pistol magnum(Federal) primers at this time.

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NEVER GIVE UP YOUR GUN

Time to get a flint lock pistol and rifle. You can make your own flint and your own powder.

I retired a year ago but before that I was never picky about what I did to earn my living. If I was physically able to do something and it payed a fair wage for the work I would be doing I did it. I don't believe the lack of help is the issue with the shortage and I'm pretty sure that making them now is less dangerous than it has been in the past. I don't think anyone is manually putting priming compound in the cups, machines do that I would imagine. The whole deal , lack of product and jacked up price is tied somehow to politics. Elections have either a positive or negative effect on anything gun related and this round we got the negative, plain and simple.

Yup, material cost as well as labor costs are up but not by 2-300 percent. Not to mention that banning the foreign made primers is a purely political and ineffective move in regards to anything other than screwing us over.

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Grumpy Old Man With a Gun

" Yup, material cost as well as labor costs are up but not by 2-300 percent. Not to mention that banning the foreign made primers is a purely political and ineffective move in regards to anything other than screwing us over."

Eliminating competition is never good for the consumer.

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NEVER GIVE UP YOUR GUN

And now, 4 hours later, they are outastock.

They appear to get new stock every 2 days so check often in the 9AM to Noon time frame

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NEVER GIVE UP YOUR GUN

You know, I could almost say that this product crisis and gouging was related to the war, but it has been going on much longer than the unfortunate problems of the Ukrainians.

What the industry needs in more manufacturers, and I cannot believe that there are multi millionaires, that are not shooters and they do not see the opportunity here. The problem is brass, bullets, powder, primers, and assembled rounds.

You have to know that there are a limited numbers of players in this game, and my mind runs towards collusion. This is all too easy to get 6 guys in a room, create a shortage, raise prices, and gouge the shooting public. Then the distributors join in, and lastly the dealers.

I hate to say it, but nobody out there is your friend, even though they profess to be. Paranoid?? Not really. over 40 years in construction taught me the rules of this game.

Want this to stop? Stop buying product at stupid prices, and stop hoarding.

Just my .02

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Pete
I ain't no fortunate son

Yep. They can make all the heartfelt videos they want for their consumers, but more than 2 years in, I'm calling BS. I am willing to pay more for a product, but not 100-200% more. I reload infrequently enough that I would hold my nose and pay $80 for a brick of primers. That brick would last me a year or more. The issue is that there are none on shelves. It is all going to the big stores, who are all charging triple the old price or more. I'm not paying that, period.

Guess it's time to switch my goals to rimfire. I have probably 40,000 rounds. I am going to be doubling that in the next year.