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Old 03-25-2009, 06:52 PM
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I finished loading up twenty rounds to test, and ordered a case gauge to check them with. The brass seemed kind of wavey looking, and after trying them in the case gauge they would not go in flush. The brass was all once shot by me in various guns, none in a Glock. It seems to bulge like 40 brass used in an unsupported chamber. Is that a problem in 9mm as well and what brand of die would straighten the cases up. I am currently using Dillon dies in a Dillon 650 press.
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Old 03-25-2009, 06:52 PM
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I finished loading up twenty rounds to test, and ordered a case gauge to check them with. The brass seemed kind of wavey looking, and after trying them in the case gauge they would not go in flush. The brass was all once shot by me in various guns, none in a Glock. It seems to bulge like 40 brass used in an unsupported chamber. Is that a problem in 9mm as well and what brand of die would straighten the cases up. I am currently using Dillon dies in a Dillon 650 press.
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Old 03-25-2009, 08:44 PM
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Does 9mm brass bulge? Only if you shoot it in a gun, uo to then it will be fine. Sarcastic, absolutely.

All brass expands/swells/bulges in all calibers, just to varying degrees depending on chamber and case dimensions. A minimum dimension case in a maximum dimension chamber can show quite a bit of expansion. This is what the sizing die in a set of reloading dies is for.
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Old 03-26-2009, 04:49 AM
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Sgt Preston here. Yes I too have frequently run into this. My final reloading step is to check each & every piece in my "drop in" case gage. There are frequently 10-20 out of 1000 that don't fit 100%. Since the drop in gage is the "Gold Standard" test to me, that is it. I have been able to resize some, others I have had to break down & throw the case away. Hope this helps. Preston
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Old 03-26-2009, 05:34 AM
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These were 115gr Remington once fired brass, probably mostly from a Sig 226. Of the first twenty none will drop in the case gauge. New unfired fits as expected. Doesn't the Dillon die set resize the brass correctly? Is there a resizing die that does a better job I can purchase? And I understand that all brass expands to a degree, but I have not encountered this at all in my 45acp reloading. And since I expect to shoot 200 rounds a week, I need to improve the quality of my reloads quickly. Could I be causing the bulge by too heavy of a crimp?
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Old 03-26-2009, 05:45 AM
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Sgt Preston back again. Sarge, I reload 38's, 357's, 9's & 45ACP's. Only the 9's have presented this problem. I will readjust my re-sizing die when I reload 9mm's the next time. After resizing, I will try the resized cases in my "drop in gage". They should drop in. If they don't drop in, I'll call Dillon & see what they have to say. Preston
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Old 03-26-2009, 05:51 AM
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They will drop in the case gauge except for the last 1/16th inch, leaving the rim outside the gauge. I will recheck my die adjustment, and then head over to the Dillon site.
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Old 03-26-2009, 06:08 AM
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A final test would be to use your barrel as a gauge. I have never had a problem with nines that had just the rim above the gauge, but set aside any that have the groove showing. I use these in several PC nines that do have tighter chambers so there should be no problem in production nines. I mark all the oversize ones and find that they usually go through my standard guns without a problem, but then dispose of that brass afterwards. I find loading brass of unknown firings around 5% come out oversized.
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Old 03-26-2009, 06:24 AM
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So there is not a way to cure the problem with a specialized resizer like in the 40's? Is the brass just that flimsy?
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Old 03-26-2009, 07:04 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by sar4937:
So there is not a way to cure the problem with a specialized resizer like in the 40's? Is the brass just that flimsy?
Three factors that can affect "bulging" of the 9x18 case walls are:

1) The degree or lack of case support by the chamber near the case head. Some guns have more than others, and those with less support tend to produce bulged cases. This is common. Example: I have two Browning High Powers that have excellent case support and there's hardly a bulge. My SIG 226 routinely makes noticeably bulged cases. And for REAL variation in fired case dimensions, my S&W 76 submachine gun spits out 9x19 cases that range from "doesn't even look fired" to "how is THAT going to fit into the resizing die?" By far the WORST firearm in my battery for case bulging is an Uzi. It is consistent in that EVERY case is bulged, and the same way.

b) "Buckling" of the case walls if trying to do a roll crimp instead of a taper crimp. 9x19 should ALWAYS be taper crimped. This is somewhat uncommon, but some reloaders are unaware and try to roll crimp their reloads, even attempting to roll crimp into a non-cannelured bullet. This practice can buckle the case walls farther down the case, but it most usually results in creating a "ring" of larger diameter just below the crimp. This is uncommon with experienced reloaders.

iii) The third factor in play with the 9x19 is that it is a tapered case, whereas .40, 357 Mag, 38 Spl and 45ACP are essentially straight-walled. A tapered case requires complete full-length resizing to reduce the diameter of the case just above the web area above the extracting groove. This is the location of the common bulging resulting from lack of chamber support.

The first thing to check is to make sure that your resizing die is set properly and that you move the press handle through its full range of travel. If you haven't already done so, adjust your resizing die so that at full stoke of the press ram the bottom surface of the resizing die contacts the shell holder, thus ensuring tha the fired case is inserted into the resizing die as far as it can go. A call to Dillon cannot hurt; they have some top-notch experienced folks there.

One question -- Is your 9mm die set Dillon or from another mfr? If not Dillon, you may need to invest in a Dillon set for your 650 to make things happen the best they can.

With my 308 dies, I actually had to set the resizing die a little deeper and when working the ram of my Rock Chucker I actually push the handle through some resistance as the shell holder contacts the bottom of the die. I'm talking maybe 0.008" to 0.010" at most, but it made all the difference in resizing some 308 cases.

HTH,

Noah
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Old 03-26-2009, 07:07 AM
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It may not be a resizing problem. Excessive crimp can also cause bulging as can bullets improperly aligned for seating. Check a freshly resized case in your guage. If it fully seats, the problem is being introduced later in the reloading process.
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Old 03-26-2009, 07:16 AM
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My dies are made by Dillon. Is the crimping die capable of making both a tapered crimp and a roll crimp by the way it is adjusted? I do have a rather heavy crimp, although the Berry's bullets are somewhat soft and imprint easily. I pulled one to see how deeply seated they were. My brass goes in the press looking normal but after loading it seems to be a bit less than smooth-walled. I guess I should deprime and size a few and drop them in the case gauge to see if I am creating the problem.
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Old 03-26-2009, 07:32 AM
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I have just run a few through the sizing die only. I also ran the sizing die down to just contact the shellplate, so the brass is going in as deep as possible. After sizing the top of the case measures .373-.375, and the bottom just above the extractor groove measures .388-.391. They will not fully seat in the case gauge. They unsized brass measure almost the same as the sized brass does. There appears to be a starting taper at the entry of the die that is responsible for the larger sizing at the rim area. I just posted on the Dillon site, and I am waiting for some responses, but the same question appears several pages in from another poster. The few responses seem to explain it as normal, and that 9mm were tapered cases. So why does my factory ammo measure a consistant dimension top to bottom and drop right into the case gauge? The Dillon die flares out at the opening way to much to be able to size the brass a consistant size. I don't expect Dillon to say their die is less than ideal. Are there better sizing dies available?
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Old 03-26-2009, 09:57 AM
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What kinda of case gauge are you using?
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Old 03-26-2009, 11:33 AM
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I'm using a Dillon case gauge. My brass will not fully drop into my Glock 17 barrel either.
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Old 03-26-2009, 01:49 PM
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Let me get this straight. Your sized brass will not drop into your G17 barrel? If that is the case, there is definitely something wrong.

Rather than waiting for an E-mail, I'd call Dillon directly. They WILL help you out. 800-223-4570
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Old 03-26-2009, 02:14 PM
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I have been reoading 9mm for quite a while and have never had this problem with any of the rounds.I use Lee dies.
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Old 03-26-2009, 02:46 PM
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Sgt Preston back again. I dug out a few more non conforming rounds. On closer examination of the diameter at the primer end of the brass, just above the extraction groove, that diameter appears to NOT be concentric with the body of the shell. The net result is that the shell stops going into the case gage as edge of the rim gets to the gage. Part of the rim diameter falls inside the counterbore of the rim gage, while part of it is clearly sits on top of it. I'm using Dillon dies & a Dillon drop in gage. 485 out of 500 rounds fit the case gage correctly. To convince myself of what I had observed, I actually took a file to the OD of the rim of one of the non-conforming cases to "make it fit" the counterbore of the gage. I will not use that round but filing part of the OD did make it fit the gage. The sidewalls of my cases seem smooth & round. There are no apparent bulges or distortions. Hope this helps. Preston
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Old 03-26-2009, 03:19 PM
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I've spent the day on various forums, and this is talked about a lot. Seldom are there solutions offered. EGW makes a U die that is supposed to take care of the problem, but it is unavailable until Lee begins supplying them again. The problem is almost always described the same way, a bulge above the rim. Now if I pull a factory round and try it in the case gauge it will drop right in. And the unfired new round measures .378 near the mouth and .385 at the rim. There is a difference in mine that is noticeable. So I chucked my sizing die in my single stage Lee press with a shell holder in the bottom and I can get the size correct enough to fit the gauge but there is a noticeable bulge to the brass I may have to live with. If you look into the die through the bottom you can see how much it bells out, that is the part the is leaving the bulge. These rounds will not fully seat into the chamber of a new Glock 17 either. Going back over my reloaded round, there are some that will press fit into the gauge and require a pencil to push them out. New factory round look and fit perfectly. My bulge is about 3/16ths in width just above the rim. It seems that .003 is the difference in going or not going. I have been able to resize my reloaded rounds fully assembled with the decapping part removed. So I guess it's down to something I'm doing with the sizing die in the Dillon. And I guess 9 mm reloads will never look like new.
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Old 03-26-2009, 04:22 PM
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Be carefull about having your shell plate touch your reloading die. According to Dillon this can cause damage to the die if you are using carbide dies which I assume you are. I have the 550b and I had the same problem but with 40s. I found out that the sizing ring in the die was of the wrong size and was told to destroy the die by Dillon so no one could ever use it again and they sent me a new one at no cost. I load thousands of 9mm a year on my 550b and of all the rounds I load on the Dillon they usually run the best next to 38 specials. I do have the undercut die for 40 and it definitely does the job. I have it mounted in my rockchucker and just sit there when I have the time going through 40 caliber rounds. I would say about 30 out of every hundred I reload need the undersize die to fit in the case gage. I do notice that these rounds that won't fit in my case gage will still easily drop right into my M&P barrel.
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223, 45acp, 650, browning, crimp, extractor, glock, primer, remington, sig arms, submachine

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