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  #1  
Old 06-16-2022, 08:52 PM
Dvus Dvus is offline
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Default Anybody load for 9mm Major?

I'm just getting into USPSA open class and will be shooting 9mm major. I'm using a comped STI 2011 in 9mm with a little extra "freebore" so I can load long if I need to, but right now I'm loading at a standard overall length. I have a load that I'm working on using an amount that I won't disclose of Hodgdon CFE and Xtreme 124 gr. plated bullets with a CCI magnum primers. I have heard that AA7 is an excellent choice as well. I was wondering what others were using, and why? I'm using what I'm using because it's what I have on hand, and really no other reason.
Since 9mm major is outside of published max loads, and each load must be developed for each individual gun, I'm not asking for charge weights. Just what components you use/recommend, oal, tips and stuff like that.
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Old 06-16-2022, 09:12 PM
Rogeronimo Rogeronimo is offline
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I put an undisclosed charge of 800-X behind a 124gn. JHP, standard primer, short OAL, for 1250 fps. Your burn rate is certainly in the correct ballpark.
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Old 06-16-2022, 10:37 PM
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If I was shooting any sort of competition I certainly wouldn’t use plated bullets, nothing but FMJ.
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Old 06-16-2022, 10:42 PM
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If you have a barrel that incases the 9mm case bottom, you might try these loads.

Not my data, so use at your own risk.
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Old 06-16-2022, 11:44 PM
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I usually never load anything too hot for myself and the shooting I do, but, I did get some 3N38 as an add on to a primer order since it was the only thing in stock that I could add to soften the HazMat bonus for having to order online.

Since I normally would have never bought it, from my research on what to do with it, it seems to be popular for 9mm Major.

I'm loading 8.8gr behind a 124gr FMJ, which works great out of the PCC's, but as I said, I don't shoot competition and have never bothered to try it out of a pistol, this is more of an experiment to see what happens since I have the stuff.

From what I have read you can go a lot hotter than this for 9 Major, but I really have no desire to do so.
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Old 06-16-2022, 11:47 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rogeronimo View Post
I put an undisclosed charge of 800-X behind a 124gn. JHP, standard primer, short OAL, for 1250 fps. Your burn rate is certainly in the correct ballpark.
How are your pressure signs? That load only makes 155 power factor, 10 short of major. Do you think there is any room to push it Or do you think it's maxed out?
jag22 I understand your position, but it doesn't seem to matter in USPSA, fmj, plated and coated bullets seem to all be in use in 9 major by top ranked shooters. I have some fmj bullets that I will work on once I finish load development with the Xtremes.
Nevada Ed, thanks for that. No surprises there except that I would have expected CFE where #7 is. And yes, my barrel completely encases the cartridge head except for the extractor groove. We are fully supported.

Last edited by Dvus; 06-16-2022 at 11:48 PM.
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Old 06-16-2022, 11:59 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tu_S View Post
I usually never load anything too hot for myself and the shooting I do, but, I did get some 3N38 as an add on to a primer order since it was the only thing in stock that I could add to soften the HazMat bonus for having to order online.

Since I normally would have never bought it, from my research on what to do with it, it seems to be popular for 9mm Major.

I'm loading 8.8gr behind a 124gr FMJ, which works great out of the PCC's, but as I said, I don't shoot competition and have never bothered to try it out of a pistol, this is more of an experiment to see what happens since I have the stuff.

From what I have read you can go a lot hotter than this for 9 Major, but I really have no desire to do so.
Tu_S, please don't try this in anything that doesn't have a fully supported chamber. It could be devastating as we are talking near Magnum level pressures in a cartridge that was never designed for it. These guns handle it because of the supported chambers and the compensator that delays unlocking the barrel. It blew my mind when I found out that they only run a 7 - 9 lb. spring. The compensators delay opening that much.
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Old 06-17-2022, 12:12 AM
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I almost forgot that everyone here likes pictures! Here are some of my open gun.
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Old 06-17-2022, 12:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dvus View Post
Tu_S, please don't try this in anything that doesn't have a fully supported chamber. It could be devastating as we are talking near Magnum level pressures in a cartridge that was never designed for it. These guns handle it because of the supported chambers and the compensator that delays unlocking the barrel. It blew my mind when I found out that they only run a 7 - 9 lb. spring. The compensators delay opening that much.
You are correct on this. I ran the idea by guys I know from the range, and not just the Internet, and worked up the load, which is under what they load and shoot.

FWIW, the 3N38 sat for months, and probably closer to a year, before I built my Hi-Point 995TS to HTA MBS95 conversion, and have picked up a Ruger PC carbine along the way, the only things I run what I mentioned through.

Last edited by Tu_S; 06-17-2022 at 12:53 AM.
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Old 06-17-2022, 08:02 AM
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I have a pound of CFE Pistol to experiment with, seems like a great powder but I'm just started. I found the NATO Reloading page very helpful when it comes to 9mm powders.

<<It could be devastating as we are talking near Magnum level pressures in a cartridge that was never designed for it.>>

SAAMI specs both 9mm and 357 Magnum at 35,000 psi, correct?

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Old 06-17-2022, 08:20 AM
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Dvus - My competition shooting has been limited to PPC and Bowling pin / Second Chance shoots. My question is why use the 9mm? Isn't making major power the big reason hot 38 super loads became so popular in this sport?

Larry
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Old 06-17-2022, 08:57 AM
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9mm open major is the way to go. I run a Dan Wesson 1911 and that can handle pressures easily. Others run typical 2011s, no problem.

38 special: There is no way to find any brass and picking though the grass on all 4s after every match no thank you.

I use HS-6 and everyone else I talk to recently who uses 9 major does too. It seem to be the best compromise of developing speed w/o overspiking pressure. I use coated blue bullets and clean the gun and barrel afterwards, not a problem.
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Old 06-17-2022, 11:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dvus View Post
How are your pressure signs? That load only makes 155 power factor, 10 short of major. Do you think there is any room to push it Or do you think it's maxed out?
I load for accuracy, and POI, and stopped when I got there. My numbers are from a 4-1/4" Hk VP9, unmodified. My OAL is down around 1.08", as 800-X compresses well. Pressure signs? It slings the brass about 10-15' ... everything else seems on par.
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Old 06-17-2022, 12:20 PM
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Exclamation

According to Hodgdons 8.3gr of #7 will get you a +P velocity of 1,216 fps at 38,200 psi using a 115gr Nosler JHP (not too much unlike a Hornady HAP?)...

Hornady says 8.6gr #7 for 1,200 fps with the 115gr XTP (= HAP). And 5.5gr AutoComp for 1,150 fps...

Ed's chart (with the appropriate disclaimers) above shows about 1.5gr ADDITIONAL #7 and plus 2gr using AutoComp!

GULP!

If I need a .355" 115gr bullet to go 1,400+ fps it will be in a 357 SIG case & barrel!

Cheers!

P.S. I don't shoot in competition, but is it not easier to make Major in 40 S&W?
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Old 06-17-2022, 01:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by STORMINORMAN View Post
...
Hornady says 8.6gr #7 for 1,200 fps with the 115gr XTP (= HAP). And 5.5gr AutoComp for 1,150 fps...

Ed's chart (with the appropriate disclaimers) above shows about 1.5gr ADDITIONAL #7 and plus 2gr using AutoComp!

GULP!

If I need a .355" 115gr bullet to go 1,400+ fps it will be in a 357 SIG case & barrel!

Cheers!

P.S. I don't shoot in competition, but is it not easier to make Major in 40 S&W?
This is exactly why I wasn't asking for charge weights. If someone was to take that info and try it in just any 9mm gun the results would be disastrous.
And yes, it is easier to get Major with .40, but that's not the point. The point is to make the compensator work effectively, and that takes high pressure/high volume gas flow through the comp. That can't be achieved with .40 without doing what we are doing with 9 Major, so it becomes pointless. Yes, 38 Super and Super Comp will do it, but good luck finding and affording brass. 9mm major just makes the most sense in a gun that can handle it.
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Old 06-17-2022, 01:50 PM
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Quote:
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...
SAAMI specs both 9mm and 357 Magnum at 35,000 psi, correct?
No. .357 magnum specs to a little over 43,500psi.
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Old 06-17-2022, 03:05 PM
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Question

Points taken. So, the USPSA Open class is, basically, where "anything goes" modification-wise...?

Do all (most?) who compete use compensators?

Cheers!

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Old 06-17-2022, 03:43 PM
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Yes (mostly) and yes. (Mostly)
The compensator makes the gun shoot flat with little to no muzzle rise if you tune your load right. When the compensator and load are in synch, you can run a highly lightened slide with a 7# recoil spring shooting a 115 or 124 gr. bullet at 1400 - 1450 fps. There is a lot of science to it, not just screw a compensator on your barrel, fill the case with powder and hope the gun doesn't blow up.
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Old 06-17-2022, 04:05 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dvus View Post
Yes (mostly) and yes. (Mostly)
The compensator makes the gun shoot flat with little to no muzzle rise if you tune your load right. When the compensator and load are in synch, you can run a highly lightened slide with a 7# recoil spring shooting a 115 or 124 gr. bullet at 1400 - 1450 fps. There is a lot of science to it, not just screw a compensator on your barrel, fill the case with powder and hope the gun doesn't blow up.
I hate to say it but with most powders used

you almost have to fill the little 9mm case up, with the slow powder, to get "Major".
Mostly when you seat a 115 gr almost 3 dimes deep, into the case.
Feel lucky ??

Last edited by Nevada Ed; 06-17-2022 at 04:12 PM.
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Old 06-17-2022, 05:17 PM
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Quote:
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I hate to say it but with most powders used

you almost have to fill the little 9mm case up, with the slow powder, to get "Major".
Mostly when you seat a 115 gr almost 3 dimes deep, into the case.
Feel lucky ??
Right now, my CFE load is 1.7 gr. over the max listed, and I'm showing no abnormal pressure signs. No flattened or cratered primers, no bulging cases, in fact, the empty cases still drop back into the chamber after wipingthem off, so no overexpanding. So, yes, I do feel "lucky." Of course this is with a barrel designed for this kind of load, so luck really has nothing to do with it. I actually have more concerns shooting Sig factory loaded 10mm ammunition. Now there are some pressure signs! Go run some of that in a Delta Elite. The cases bulge so much they are unfit to reload. And talk about flattened primers!

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Old 06-17-2022, 06:45 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dvus View Post
No. .357 magnum specs to a little over 43,500psi.
Check this on SAAMI.org... 357 and 9mm both listed as 35k psi.

Their CUP ratings are different tho.

https://saami.org/wp-content/uploads...sting-Copy.pdf
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Old 06-17-2022, 07:31 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mikerjf View Post
Check this on SAAMI.org... 357 and 9mm both listed as 35k psi.

Their CUP ratings are different tho.

https://saami.org/wp-content/uploads...sting-Copy.pdf
Sorry, I was referring to CIP test pressures, not saami. CIP shows a large difference between .357 and 9mm.
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Old 06-17-2022, 10:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dvus View Post
Right now, my CFE load is 1.7 gr. over the max listed, and I'm showing no abnormal pressure signs. No flattened or cratered primers, no bulging cases, in fact, the empty cases still drop back into the chamber after wipingthem off, so no overexpanding. So, yes, I do feel "lucky." Of course this is with a barrel designed for this kind of load, so luck really has nothing to do with it. I actually have more concerns shooting Sig factory loaded 10mm ammunition. Now there are some pressure signs! Go run some of that in a Delta Elite. The cases bulge so much they are unfit to reload. And talk about flattened primers!
I had good results in my C9 a full 5" 9mm, with stock, factory barrels
with CFE-p & BE-86 powder.
A 124 gr "plated Ball" out of the 5" gave me around 1242fps with both powders with a long 1.14" OAL.
That was with Hornady data that very seldom gets near a maximum +P loading.
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Old 06-17-2022, 11:12 PM
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Quote:
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No. .357 magnum specs to a little over 43,500psi.
Completely incorrect. Both the 9mm Parabellum and the .357 Magnum have a SAAMI pressure limit of 35,000 psi just like "mikerjf" said.

When the .357 Magnum is listed in CUP the max pressure is 45,000 CUP. I don't know where you got 43,500 psi from?

SAAMI Standards – SAAMI
Look at SAAMI Z229.3 - 2015 on the above link and then page 17 and page 19.
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Old 06-18-2022, 12:20 AM
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Quote:
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Completely incorrect. Both the 9mm Parabellum and the .357 Magnum have a SAAMI pressure limit of 35,000 psi just like "mikerjf" said.

When the .357 Magnum is listed in CUP the max pressure is 45,000 CUP. I don't know where you got 43,500 psi from?

SAAMI Standards – SAAMI
Look at SAAMI Z229.3 - 2015 on the above link and then page 17 and page 19.
ArchAngelICD, had you read my previous post #22 where I corrected my error on the SAAMI specs, you would see that I referred to C.I.P. testing, and not C.U.P testing.
CUP testing was an older method using a piston driven by ported cartridge pressure to compress a copper cylinder. Pressure was measured by how much the copper cylinder was compressed.
CIP testing uses a drilled cartridge case to allow the pressure sensor direct access to the combustion gasses to measure peak pressure. This method is widely used in Europe, and I believe to be, due to the fact that it actually measures peak combustion pressure, far superior to the SAAMI method. SAAMI uses a sensor precision fitted in the chamber itself. This sensor is at a prescribed distance from the breech face, and measures pressure exerted by the cartridge case against the chamber wall, again only in the prescribed area of the sensor. The benefit of the SAAMI method is that the sensor is reusable and can test several samples from a large production lot, thus more economical for the manufacturer. It does NOT provide the actual peak pressure inside the cartridge like the C.I.P method does, which is where I got my 43,500 psi figure from. Please see picture attached.

Here is a link that explains it all in detail. Small arms ammunition pressure testing - Wikipedia

Now, can we stop going down this rabbit hole and get back to the original thread subject of 9mm major loading component tips and suggestions. Please.
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Old 06-18-2022, 02:23 AM
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Incorrect again, CIP is not a method of pressure testing.
CIP is the agency who sets pressure limits in Europe. It is the overseas counterpart to SAAMI. The real name is "Commission Internationale Permanente pour l'Epreuve des Armes à Feu Portatives" which is French for "Permanent International Commission for the Testing of Small Arms"

CIP pressures are reported in megapascals (or bars) whereas SAAMI reports pressures in PSI.

I don't want to have a knowledge contest here. Please double check your information before you pass it on. We all make mistakes but we need to admit when we do. It's all about getting it right, not who gets it right. Safety is paramount.
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Old 06-18-2022, 10:40 AM
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"In this corner..............."

I really love this site.

Lots of numbers are tossed out there but in the end it will get sorted out
to where everyone learns what's, what.

We are all winners, when the dust finally settles.

Plus, this is one very touchy subject..............
going PAST a +P loading , just makes my knees shake !!
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Old 06-19-2022, 02:18 AM
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"My hands are shaky and my knees are weak... I'm all shook up!"

Cheers!

P.S. Getting back to the original subject (or, close to it?), in general, how does one develop the "in sync" combination of comp & load? I have a comp for a G19 barrel and I thought it was designed to reduce muzzle rise for most ammo? Or is that just for a comp barrel?
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Old 06-19-2022, 03:35 AM
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Dvus,
There is nothing wrong with AA#7 like you mentioned.
I used to use either Power Pistol or HS-6 for high end 9mm loads with a124gr bullet and W231 for range ammo. Now I like W244 and W572 for the 9mm, both work very well and especially W572.
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