9mm (9x19) What to do, Could use input.

[NeilMo]

Have 100 rounds of 9mm XTP 115gr with N320 powder. I was out yesterday plinking and these would not chamber. Vihtavouri's load data says for COL 1.142. In Lyman's 48 edition for the same bullet 1.090. That would explain not chambering. So, what to do? Should I pull the 100? Or could I seat the bullet to 1.090 and re-crimp? What would be the best and safest.

Thank you
Neil
P.S The gun is a Sar 9.

[mikerjf]

9mm is a low-capacity case and can be dangerous if made too short, since pressure will rise.

I would not shorten them unless you can find a published load for 115g that uses the same amount (or more) of N320 at 1.090” (or shorter). If you can find that, it would indicate there’s no problem.

Always a good idea with a new bullet: place it on a fired case and chamber it in your gun (so the bullet is pushed into the case by encountering the rifling). Measure the resulting COAL, and that tells you the longest round you can expect to chamber in that gun.

[505Gibbs]

Check & see if Hornady has a load page and what their OAL is. Another thought is take 8 or 10 pieces and increase the seat depth to the lower figure and run them thru. I don't think you'd need to re-crimp - IMO.
Between the two different settings I presume the powder weight is the same. Case capacity can mess things up on the smaller 9mm case with the lower depth.

[ken158]

Just re-seat and no need to crimp again

[gwpercle]

As long as your powder charge is not a Maximum or Near Maximum load you can seat them 0.052" deeper , that small amount will not raise pressure to a dangerous level ... But ... Remember those book published COAL's are for the guns used to develop the load in the book ... not your gun . What you should do is use your guns barrel , seat one bullet just a little deeper , maybey just 1/8 th turn in on the seating stem , and check fit .
When you get to the OAL that fits your barrel ...screw in seater another 1/8th turn ... just for good measure , do a few more and check every one untill you are sure they are fitting your gun . Write down the COAL or make a dummy round for next time .
Book COAL's are nice but it's just a go-by ... the rounds must chamber in your gun and there is no magic book number to know what that is ...
Gary

[342ti]

You guys get to wrapped up with max charges! Bullet profile dictates OAL, adjust powder charge accordingly. Stay away from compressed charge data, TOTALLY unecessary with all the powder options out there, there's no gain to them. 4.0 grs Bullseye under ANY 115/124gr bullet should do the trick, in ANY gun.

[9mmPatriot]

This....
The Plunk Test - Setting your OAL - 9mm/38 Caliber - Brian Enos's Forums... Maku mozo!

[ironhead7544]

I use the Hornady COL in their manual. Never had any feed problems with the various XTP bullets.

The one exception to this is when I use the max load of VV3N38 with a 147 gr XTP. Then the VV specified COL is what I use at 1.140. This load will plunk test in all my 9mm pistols and carbines.

I agree with mikerif above. Check other sources on the N320 load you used. If it is below max, you could reduce the COL slowly until the round will plunk test. Just make sure you do no go below the specified COL of the loads you look up. Really, I think 1.142 is too long for the 115 gr XTP.

[Mike, SC Hunter]

Did check diameter of the loaded round? Some 9mm bullets will cause the case to "swell".

[2wheels]

You need to figure out why the rounds are not chambering. What COAL are your rounds at? 1.142? Usually the max COAL is spec’s @ 1.169, so 1.142 should work in most guns. What firearm are you having the issue with? Definitely check case diameter. Perform a plunk test using a Sharpie marked case and try to figure out why the rounds aren’t chambering before shortening COAL.

[Nevada Ed]

Originally Posted by Mike, SC Hunter

Did check diameter of the loaded round? Some 9mm bullets will cause the case to "swell".

The 115 XTP bullet if within spec's, will not over expand a 9mm case.
I can also be set to a 1.10" OAL length per their data and other manuals, in my pistols.

[mikld]

I have not had any problems with XTP bullets needing deep seating in any of my 9mm pistols. My Masada has the "tightest" chamber and using Hornady manual's recommended OAL all pass the plunk test. Any time there is a fit problem measure. Measure the OD of the cartridge in several places. Color the cartridge/bullet and drop it in the chamber, twist it and see where it hits first (often too much crimp will bulge the cse and I do not "crimp" any semi-auto round, just deflare enough to plunk)...

[STORMINORMAN]

The Lyman 7833000 Pistol Ammo Checker and a LEE FCD can answer a lot of questions and solve quite a few problems...

I ALWAYS check the 1st couple bullets for chambering before making more...

Cheers!

[nicky4968]

When loading any cartridge, for the first time in life the dummies come first.

[raljr1]

I had the same issue with some 45 ACP rounds...The cases walls of one brand were thicker than the others and when I seated the bullets the cases swelled. They would chamber in my 1945 Remington Rand, but not my Series 70 Colt. COL may not be the issue.

[ArchAngelCD]

Not to beat you up but like said above, the PLUNK test is your friend. Your very first round should have been tested. Not every OAL for pistol ammo is correct for your gun's barrel. I'm not sure how to fix it because I can tell from your post if it's the OAL or the diameter of the cartridge that is sticking the ammo. More info and checks are needed.

[Paul in Nevada]

Let's go straight to the manufacturer. Hornady lists the OAL for the 115gr XTP at 1.075". They do not list N320, however.

[Protocall_Design]

I have found that a lot of semi autos, especially of newer vintage, have little or no lead in the rifling ahead of the case mouth. For those, only a few certain bullet weights an shapes will work at all. If the rifling is cut with a small taper ahead of the case mouth, then just about any kind of ammo will chamber and function. This is only one thing to look at, out of many.

[gwpercle]

Originally Posted by Protocall_Design

I have found that a lot of semi autos, especially of newer vintage, have little or no lead in the rifling ahead of the case mouth. For those, only a few certain bullet weights an shapes will work at all. If the rifling is cut with a small taper ahead of the case mouth, then just about any kind of ammo will chamber and function. This is only one thing to look at, out of many.

I agree ... the newer and smaller a 9mm Luger is the less throat there is ... I have one where the chamber ends - the rifling starts ... No Throat ( leade or lead or lede ) whatsoever ... and that causes problems with the profile of many bullets .
If you have a short or no throated barrel try Truncated Cone bullets ... they can be easier to load and was how I solved that pesky no throat problem .
Gary

[BLUEDOT37]

Whenever my son gets a new pistol I get to handload some ammo for it.

I always tell him that I need the gun in-hand to do my tests & make sure the load(s) that I typically use, or that I specially assemble, pre-check in it before I actually load anything to be shot.

He used to skeptical but always provided it.

Recently he purchased a 9x19 Kriss Vector SDP & brought it over for said routine.

Lo & behold, virtually none of my 9x19 handloads that we use in our assortment of pistols (largely 3rd Gens, but not limited to) can be used in the KV-90 because, as it turns out, has no freebore cut in the barrel's throat, only some leade from the chamfered rifling. (see pic below)

I generally like to load my rounds on the long side of standard, since they're usually full-power loads, but well short of the SAAMI COAL max @ 1.169".

The S&W 3rd Gens typically have very generous freebores, usually around 0.100", plus or minus 0.020" the best I can measure, & many different bullets I load can be seated longer than SAAMI max before contacting the rifling.

Any 9x19 I handload for us will work in any of our pistols, but not anymore.

Checking a handful of the bullets I commonly use, they all had different maximum COALs (using a technique similar to what mikerjf mentioned) in the KV-90, because of the different bullet profiles, which I then lower by .008" to add some clearance between the ogive & the rifling, before I make an actual dummy round.

Fortunately he only wants to use the SIG V-Crowns & they had the longest max COAL (1.114") of the ones I checked, which was still below my normal 1.125" COAL.

He was glad I scrutinized the process beforehand.

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.
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Kriss Vector SDP-90 chamber/throat with no freebore
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Typical chamber/throat with freebore between the chamber's shoulder & the chamfered rifling (internet photo).
My S&W 3rd Gens look like this, as do others.
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[Nevada Ed]

Originally Posted by Paul in Nevada

Let's go straight to the manufacturer. Hornady lists the OAL for the 115gr XTP at 1.075". They do not list N320, however.

I can also do the 1.075" OAL with the Berry 124 gr. THP bullet, but

with any other bullets that I have, I need at least a longer 1.10"
just to get average accuracy with the little 115 gr's and at least
1.12" with the Speer Gold Dot JHP bullets, and all the heavier bullets, that I load.

[max503]

Originally Posted by 9mmPatriot

This....
The Plunk Test - Setting your OAL - 9mm/38 Caliber - Brian Enos's Forums... Maku mozo!

That article advises shortening your OAL by .05" after you get it to plunk and spin.

That seems a bit excessive, and possibly dangerous.

I think he meant .005".

I just shorten a loading until it chambers (and extracts easily without firing) and call it good.

[Tu_S]

From my experiences, I don't think the 1.142 COL is your problem with this one. It's well under the max for 9x19, and among my favorite loads, I have one that is 115gr FMJ at 1.140.

One thing I do remember from when I first started reloading is having issues getting the crimp and bullet depth of the dies setup correctly. There were times when I didn't have the die down far enough to completely take out the flare from the charging die, and other were I had things set too deep and distorted the case, in both cases the round would not chamber correctly, although the length was within spec.

Getting back to the original question on this, I would pull the bullets, take the decapping pin out of the sizing die, and start over, using a cartridge gauge or plunk test the first few rounds until you are confident things are setup right.

[Oldfrt]

I have a similar problem, turns out that 70 cases are too long to chamber in my Lymann chamber checker. After separating out all the problem cases the reloading went fine with the others. I will eventuly take my 9 EZ apart and see if they chamber in the barrel, if not then try to rig up a cutter so I don't have to de-prime the cases, hate having to risk mucking up 70 small pistol primers if I don't have to.

[tominboise]

I've decapped quite a number of primed cases over the years. I haven't had one pop yet.

[AzShooter]

I ran into the same problem a few years ago when I changed bullet style but forgot to recheck my powder load. After 200 rounds I figured it out.

I pulled all those bullets with a collett bullet puller and reused brass and bullets with the proper load.

I felt much safer doing it this way.

[Nevada Ed]

Originally Posted by Oldfrt

I have a similar problem, turns out that 70 cases are too long to chamber in my Lymann chamber checker. After separating out all the problem cases the reloading went fine with the others. I will eventuly take my 9 EZ apart and see if they chamber in the barrel, if not then try to rig up a cutter so I don't have to de-prime the cases, hate having to risk mucking up 70 small pistol primers if I don't have to.

You might try seating those primers, one more time with a little more pressure on the unit
before you start trimming all those cases.

Good luck.

[Nevada Ed]

As for your OAL

A LOT of this depends on the pistol being used.

I have one 3" where a 124 FMJ plated "Ball type" bullet will work at 1.09"
A C9 3.5" where a Berry 124 THP at just 1.075" gives me great accuracy and high FPS.
I also have a full 5" that can "Plunk" a 124 FMJ set at a long OAL of 1.22"
but that setting, will not fit in the magazine.

When working with a new bullet, a "Dummy round" will save a lot of future problems for each gun it is used in
or at least take measurements and log them.

[gwpercle]

Originally Posted by Nevada Ed

As for your OAL

A LOT of this depends on the pistol being used.

I have one 3" where a 124 FMJ plated "Ball type" bullet will work at 1.09"
A C9 3.5" where a Berry 124 THP at just 1.075" gives me great accuracy and high FPS.
I also have a full 5" that can "Plunk" a 124 FMJ set at a long OAL of 1.22"
but that setting, will not fit in the magazine.

When working with a new bullet, a "Dummy round" will save a lot of future problems for each gun it is used in
or at least take measurements and log them.

Good Post !
Keep those dummy's around...they come in really handy the next time you want to adjust your Seating / Crimp Die .
And are a good way to use a berdan primed or other un-reloadable type case ...
For the new guy's ... a dummy round has no primer or powder just a bullet seated and crimped in the right spot.
Gary