The last cases of HBWC's I bought were Speer and Hornady. I think this was during the second Bush Administration and I bought a bunch of them. That was a long time ago. The last box of 1k is starting to get light. The Speer bullets were satisfactory but it looks like they are no longer made. Shopping around, prices range from about 20¢/ea (before shipping!) to 9.5¢/ea (with free shipping!).

The ones that catch my eye are made by Berry's, Precision Delta, and Zero. Berry's is the most expensive but it's possible I could get them at dealer wholesale.

What is your favorite 38cal HBWC and what does it cost per 1k, including shipping?

I have also been thinking about getting into casting. I am wondering if maybe HBWC is a more challenging bullet to cast. I see only a few molds for this style and they tend to be more expensive than other WC molds.

I have been using Hornady 148 gr HBWC for a few years. Would really like to cast my own but haven’t seen the mold for less than $200.

Precision Delta 148 gr. HBWC. Currently out of stock, but if you can ever get your hands on them, I recommend you try them.
Reloading Bullets | Reloading Supplies | Precision Delta

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What could possibly go wrong?

I use Bear Creek Moly-Coated. I like them a lot and they work extremely well, but some don't like the moly-coating, claim that you can never remove it from your barrel. I have never tried as I have used these bullets for about ten years without issue. There are no lube grooves on these bullets and they look a little odd with just a straight side. Zero smoke due to zero lube!
Magnus also makes decent lead bullets without the moly-coating.
mike

I’m using Berry’s. No complaints.

For lead I like Hornaday. For plated I like Berry's.

HBWC…Remington is the classic. Good luck finding any. Speer and Hornady…Speer hasn’t been found in quite awhile. Hornady maybe available, check Natchez or Midsouth.

Hornady. They absolutely most accurate that I have ever used. I have used them in a K-38 and model 52 to hunt squirrels, head shots only. 2.7 grains of 700-X and they were more accurate then I could hold the pistol. In a Ransom, they were one hole wonders.

Seated backwards with the same charge the soft bullets opened up to 60 caliber. Excellent, controllable round for snubby revolvers. Just about as good a performing bullet as original Hydra-shok 148 grain with the center post.

Regards, Rick Gibbs

Rick,
I’ve heard good and bad about reverse seated HBWCs… some of the old time lawman/gun writers spoke highly of them while others railed against them strongly. What kind of change in accuracy from “normal” loading do you experience, and over what kind of distance do you expect the accuracy to hold up?
To those who spoke of casting their own, I got a nice 3 cavity brass mould with Cramer type captive base plugs for my K32. It came from either MP or NOE and was under $150, IIRC. I have yet to cast with it as my 32 revolver loadings have gone off in different directions.
Froggie

I have an old reloading book that advocated putting a gas check on the nose of a reversed HBWC. This would keep a heavy charge of powder from blowing a hole in the body of the boolit and leaving the walls of the projectile in the gun. I've never tried it.

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There's these. I quit buying HBWC's years ago when I started casting Lee DEWC's. The small improvement in accuracy from the "good" commercial wadcutters isn't worth it to me. But now that I think about it, I might try a box to shoot out of my Rossi 92, 357 Lever gun. It might make a superb small game round.

HORNADY 38c (.358) 148gr HBWC BULLET Swaged-Lead 250/BX - Graf & Sons

I am thinking Speer and Remington no longer produce these. Hornandy still does and I have shot a lot of those. Looks like Precision and Zero are quite a bit cheaper.
I will look in to those. Man I remember when everyone was obsessed with Moly and then everyone hated it. Reminds me that I have a spray can on a shelf that I used once 20 years ago.
They also list a "Match Lube" version. In stock, free shipping, 9.4¢/ea. I am going to pick up 1k of these and see how they shoot.

Have you ever tried casting the hollow base? Or do you find the DEWC's do everything you need?

No, I have never tried casting HBWC's. Yes, the DEWC's do everything I need. But I don't shoot Match, for score. Another thing about the DEWC's is you can drive them faster without the danger of leaving a boolit skirt in the barrel or chamber.

Here's an example of my kind of shootin':
That's from my Rossi 357 Lever action, with the WC's seating long so that they will feed through the action.

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Last time I ordered Speer 148 HB, they were $42 for 500 and my go to bullet.

I am in your boat also, after ten years of not ordering any.

Good luck finding any HBwc 148's.......... BBwc are all that I can find right now.

I've never loaded HBWC. I've used the H&G #50 WC flat base design for many years, usually in revolvers, but also in one Model 52. Does the HB shoot that much more accurately than a FB wadcutter?

As I recall from that long ago we only shot them back to 15 yards. Also, that you could cover the group on a silhouette target with your palm. They were mostly loaded in snubbies such as a 642, bobbed hammer 60 for pocket carry.

For a recoiled sensitive person they are ideal. Again, as I recall if you pushed them faster then a mid-range target load the accuracy diminished the faster they went. That whole ballistics and physics thing.

We never found a need to puta gas check on the base of the bullets as we never had them blown thru from the bottom.

Again, just massive expansion with moderate recoil!

Regards, Rick Gibbs

Hornady are expensive . Precision Delta you never know what you're getting until you open every box & mic . Still have some undersize ones . Zero's run .357 which will work in a 52 , Colt & if your cylinder throats aren't too large . IIRC the Magnus swaged bullets are the Zeros rebranded . Both owners are pals & shoot Bullseye at the same Alabama range . Rather or not Remington will start releasing these again or if they stay unavailable like the Winchester ones . The last case of Rems I got were different as they had changed lube to Floodwax instead of Japan wax / graphite & size was .358 instead of .360 , also skirt was thinner . Aint shot 'em yet so can't say more .
FWIW yes I've casted HBWC's , with the LY 358495 IIRC . Like HP's keep the pins hot .
Plenty of good plain flat base proven designs . Molds are cheaper too .

I had a HB mold with an internal pin. I had great results casting with dental lead. About a decade ago I realized I could no longer shoot well enough that HB wadcutters made any difference. At age 68 I no longer even worry about how soft they may be as ww seems to group well enough for me.

I no longer shoot competitively.

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Front sight and squeeze

I am getting good at it. 3.2 American Select will separate but 3.2 of Bullseye doesn't. I had a decent group going with a different powder but shooting high and the last shot went right. That sliver of lead laying on the target was stuck in the target. The base is stuck in the brass. I have about 2000 rounds of 3D hbwc's left. I bought 800 last year from a person that didn't like them.

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A revolver seems to be forgiving but I can tell quiet a bit of difference with my three 38 special autos.

National Bullet Company of Eastlake, Ohio. Picked them up in an estate sale a couple of years ago. Down to my last 500. I do not believe the company is in business anymore, sure wish they were!

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USMC 69-93 Combat Pistol Inst.

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Some bullets dropped from my My M-P HG50 Brass Mold.

They are supposed to be the same as the Hensley & Gibbs HG50 HB-WC design.

I have yet to load any, but they we easy enough to cast.

Bear Creek.

I think the biggest advantage is they are more forgiving of low powder charges since the "skirt" provides a gas seal.

Nice!

I have used Precision Delta 148 Grain HBWC and been pleased with them.

What diameter do they drop and what do you size them to?

Sizing depends on each individual gun . A revolver as long as throats are larger than bore size bullets to match throat . If throats are smaller they'll need to be reamed / honed larger . Semi-auto pistol or rifle fattest size that'll chamber , which most of the time depends on barrel throating / leade , bullet nose config / diameter . Make your ammo fit your gun .

I don't know about H&G #50 copies (they may be better), but from an original H&G #50 mould, bullets of approximately 13-14 BHN in wheelweight alloy drop at around .359" or a little larger (this is from memory). I've found sizing to .358" or just slightly under (they come out of my SAECO bullet sizing die at .3575") has been best for most revolvers and the one Model 52 I've had.

The Match Lube version is what I shoot. No issues with leading. Following some of the comments... I've never loaded these backwards and tested them that way.

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Back in the day I shot a lot of Speer HBWCs - they were both economical and accurate. Hornady came out with theirs and I tried them - pretty good. These were early designs with a more or less conventional profile, and they (especially Hornady's) worked quite well reversed over a charge of SR4756 I won't post here. Hornady later radically changed their design to a knurled bearing surface and those never worked as well for me as either the Speer or early Hornady designs.

I still remember my Dad being able to buy them at Gander Mountain's store in Wilmot, WI for $7.47/500 . . . yes, it was a long time ago and back then I wasn't old enough to buy ammo components myself.

Store bought I think only kind I’ve ever bought are Hornberry 148 HBWC.
I’ve poured a few Lyman/ Ideal 38 HBWC but that is slow going. Usually shoot Lyman Ideal Button Nose out of gang mold for 14 & 27. Same for 45Colt but it’s just a 2 holer. I just recently bought new 44 HBWC mold 4 cavity. Pours beautiful bullets and nice design so you don’t have to pull cavity pins.

They dropped about 126.5 gr with a diameter of .363-.364 after the powder coat. I forget to mic them before the powder coat, but MP advertises they drop at .359.

I used a relatively soft alloy of 10.4 bhn, as I plan to push them slow and want to give the skirt the chance do what it was designed to do.

Any hints and tips you experienced hollow base loaders have, I am all ears.

I have yet to size them.

What mold did you get? I have several MP molds and love the design, fit, and function of his HP and HB molds.

Also use Precision Delta 148 grn HBWC over 2.8 grns of Bullseye in my Mid Range.

I have used Zero Swqged HBWC for years. Only HBWC I’ve found as accurate is Remington and I haven’t seen any in years

I was using Speer 148gr HBWC bullets for a long time. For years now they never seem to be in stock anywhere I usually buy. I changed over to the 148gr DEWC bullets.from Missouri Bullets. With that DEWC bullet I charge 3.4gr W231.

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Freedom is never free!!
SWCA #3437

I cast a lot of wadcutters over the last 50 years but every one has been the solid base design . Hollow base wadcutter moulds are available but for the longest time Lyman's moulds for HB anything were all single cavity .
Casting with a single cavity hollow base mould has to be one of the slowest ways known to man to make bullets . A 2, 3, 4 or 5 cavity solid base mould just turns out so many more bullets ... it's no contest .

After 50 years of collecting moulds ... I own only one hollow base .
I have found out that for the time and effort invested ... it just ain't worth the trouble .
Gary

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NRA Member

I'm not sure what your knowledge level is so forgive me if I repeat things you already know:
You need a large enough flare to get them started straight while seating. Seat flush with the case mouth, crimp just enough to eliminate the flare. Seat and crimp in separate steps. The HB's excel at lower velocities, just be careful not to stick one in the bore. Pretty simple and that's how I've done it for 20 years. Lately, I have modified my process a little. I am flaring with aftermarket plugs that open the case differently than standard flaring dies. I have also switched to a taper crimp instead of the roll crimp found with most die sets. The loaded rounds look cleaner than my old ones but I haven't shot them yet. Maybe I have added extra steps and expense for little or no return but I like the process and my labor is free.

MP mold, 44HBWC 214 gr also comes with studs to replace HB
to sold WC. I’ve got NIB 24-3. Can’t bring myself to touch it off.
Will test out in 29s I guess.
Another case of “sell safe queens first” if you only have two.

Never owned a hollow based mould. Guess I will have to find a company that does have them in stock.

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USMC 69-93 Combat Pistol Inst.

AJ, let me know who has HBWC molds, been looking with no luck.

NOE sells hollow based molds. I have a couple of them.

When I shot PPC, I used NBC (Northeast Bullet Company) but they went.out of business. They were very good. I also cast a dewc from a couple of two cavity molds. They were decent enough to keep me winning.

Kevin

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MP has 38 and 44 HB Molds in stock now. I have purchased several molds from them. 1st class molds, 1st class customer service.

I got mine when they were soliciting pre orders. I don’t know how much they were offhand. They weren’t cheap but much better quality than most of the newer Amrican molds. And priced about same even with shipping from Europe. I bought more than molds and price was in Euros. I got the 4cavity brass.

I can only add my prior experience with 148g .357" hollow base bullets. Shot a few different brands in the past using several different K frame S&Ws and will never shoot another HBWC. I have dug out my last skirt from the barrel or cylinder and when I had my first budged one barrel, quickly decided that they are not worth risk for me!!! The last box of 50 I had, I shot one at a time and checked the barrel after ever shot, never again. Solid WC bullets work just fine.

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Gary
SWCA 2515

Gary,

Do you remember what load you were using? I have shot hundreds of thousands without a skirt separating.

I do agree, DEWC are the way to go. Cast a bit harder and you can load them to full power.

Kevin

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Unshared knowledge is wasted.

I have one box of Zero Bullets left as you can see it has been around the block a time or two.

I also like the Bullseye Bullets for my .45 (sorry not 148 Gr. HBWC's). Again my last box

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USMC 69-93 Combat Pistol Inst.

I have shot a couple of thousand 148 grain HBWC's out of my S&W 52-1 and my Colt Mid Range and a Custom built Colt .38 Special target pistol. Neve had a skirt fail. Of course, I am only using 2.8 Grains of Bullseye to launch them downrange. Could be that you have pushed them to fast? What load were you using?

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USMC 69-93 Combat Pistol Inst.

There was a time when I shot mostly wadcutters. The HBWC pretty much all shot the same for me with a slight edge to the Remingtons, especially if you put them up in Remington wadcutter brass. I tend to use Hornady these days as they are the easiest to find.

Not being locked in (because I never had a 52) I migrated to cast, with the button nose definitely having an edge over the double-ended in my revolvers. But you may need to bump up the load from the HBWC level loads. I had to but these days I think the commercial casters are making their coated bullets from a softer alloy so it might not be as necessary as it was in the past.

While great for target shooting (which is all I do anyway) I eventually found that standard velocity SWC were just as accurate and the bullet profile is a bit more general-purpose. I still load some HBWC for my Model 14 but shoot the 158gr LSWC over 4.0gr of W231 85% of the time. This is a load that you'll see a lot in any discussion of the .38 Special. 3.6gr of WST shoots the 158gr SWC just as well.

I still like to use different loads for different things. I'm not above having different toolheads for the Dillon for different loads of the same caliber so I don't have to re-adjust dies and powder measures. If I'm using a single stage I have extra seating and/or crimp dies for the same reason. If the bullet you're using has a pronounce crimp groove you can seat and crimp in the same die so all you need is one extra die.

The HBWC though I seat and crimp separately. The 158gr SWC and the button nose wadcutters in one step.