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View Poll Results: Can you load 9mm bullets in a 38/357 cartridge? I measured my 9mm bullets and they co
Yes 39 79.59%
No 10 20.41%
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  #1  
Old 09-02-2022, 09:14 PM
Thejohn316 Thejohn316 is offline
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Can you load jacketed 125gr 9mm bullets into 357 mag cartridges?
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Old 09-02-2022, 10:18 PM
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Yes, you can but they won't have a cannelure. You might be able to taper crimp them. If not held tight, they can slip and tie up your cylinder.

Last edited by max; 09-02-2022 at 10:19 PM.
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Old 09-02-2022, 10:24 PM
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Diameter might be too small for .38/.357 dies; just a guess as I've never tried it. Undersized .355" bullets might work and give decent accuracy if the bullet can be held firmly in the case. You'd just have to experiment with it, or use jacketed bullets of the right diameter, .357".
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Old 09-02-2022, 10:42 PM
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Although this isn't part of the OP I regularly load plated 135 grain .357 RNFP bullets in my 38 Spl and 9mm! Great accuracy for plated bullets!
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Old 09-02-2022, 10:51 PM
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I routinely load 146 grain cast 9mm bullets sized to .358" in my 38 and 357 loads as well as my Browning HP.

I roll crimp the 38/357 cases over the beginning of the bullet's ogive and that holds things together pretty well. The HP in 9mm gets a taper crimp.

Accuracy is on par with any other bullet in my revolvers.

A proviso if you will. S&W revolvers generally slug out to .357" bore diameter, and jacketed 9mm bullets are generally .355" in diameter. Accuracy may suffer a bit in an S&W, although older Colt revolvers often slug out at .355" diameter.
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Old 09-02-2022, 11:09 PM
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Probably. Depends on the bullet. Are we talking about lead or jacketed bullets? .355" v 357" jacketed bullets. 124 gr and 125 gr are pretty close in weight and dia. Bullet migration would be my greatest concern in a revolver. That might cause the cylinder to lock up. Happens with revolvers loaded with .451 dia. bullets without a cannilure, even in a revolver designed to shoot 45 acp ammo.

Revolver bullets are designed to be roll crimped where as auto loader bullets are designed for taper crimp. I've gone to .452 lead bullets with a crimp groove for my 45 acp revolver because of excessive bullet migration.
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Old 09-02-2022, 11:35 PM
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The various comments about the details are correct, but I've done it in the past and am pretty sure will again, and it works, but less than ideal.

These were practice rounds that needed to be good enough, where it was more about looking around and what I had an excess of, and use up some of the 9mm projectiles
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Old 09-03-2022, 12:38 AM
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Rainier's 130gr .356 RN have shot equally well in both 9mm and 38 Special applications for me at the indoor range @ 50'...

They were so inexpensive at the time they rivaled swaged lead... But, a whole lot cleaner!

Cheers!
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Old 09-03-2022, 08:54 AM
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Yes. I was gifted a bunch of 9mm slugs but didn't have a 9mm. They worked just fine out of my revolvers. Heavy charges of slow powers gave impressive displays around dusk.
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Old 09-03-2022, 09:41 AM
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There should be a third choice - "Yes surely you can do anything, but why would you want to?"

Possibly harder to crimp, possible loss of accuracy. If you don't have a nine, trade them to someone who does. Or if its just a well see if it will work, then go for it.
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Old 09-03-2022, 10:10 AM
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Kinda depends upon just where your nominally .357 in groove diameter barrel falls in the tolerance window. Industry standards allow 0.356-0.358 in tolerance on groove diameter for a ".38/.357" barrel. Way back when, the first barrel blank I bought had a 0.356 in groove diameter and guns barreled from that blank were a bit picky on what they shot best.

Also, bullets can be a wee bit fat or skinny from nominal.
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  #12  
Old 09-03-2022, 10:15 AM
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Yes ... it can be done and I have done it a lot .
But ... check your bore size , I have a older Colt Trooper that has a .355 bore ... so the 9mm jacketed bullet works in this revolver ... but I have to do a couple tricks to make it work .
1.) Using a 9mm luger sizing die I "neck size" the sized 357 mag. case to just below where the bullet base will end up after seating . To insure the case gets a good tight grip on the bullet .
2.) Seating the bullet and then Taper Crimping it is done with the 9mm Luger dies in two seperate steps ...

Basically you are loading with 357 Magnum sizing die then using 9mm Luger to size the case mouth/ neck (?) to hold the bullet and use 9mm Crimp die to taper crimp the 9mm bullet ,,, they usually have no crimp groove or cannelure .

I put a decent taper cimp on the 125 gr. bullets and have fired several 6 shot groups ... checking the 6th round for bullet "pull out " and a good solid taper crimp will hold them in place .

I have a bullet mould (from NOE) that casts a 124 gr. truncated cone gas checked 9mm bullet ... it works great in 9mm and 38 Spcl , 38 Splc+P and 357 Magnum ... using the above steps.
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Old 09-03-2022, 10:35 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gwpercle View Post
Yes ... it can be done and I have done it a lot .
But ... check your bore size , I have a older Colt Trooper that has a .355 bore ... so the 9mm jacketed bullet works in this revolver ... but I have to do a couple tricks to make it work .
1.) Using a 9mm luger sizing die I "neck size" the sized 357 mag. case to just below where the bullet base will end up after seating . To insure the case gets a good tight grip on the bullet .
2.) Seating the bullet and then Taper Crimping it is done with the 9mm Luger dies in two seperate steps ...

Basically you are loading with 357 Magnum sizing die then using 9mm Luger to size the case to hold the bullet and use 9mm Crimp die to taper crimp the 9mm bullet ,,, they usually have no crimp groove or cannelure .

I put a decent taper cimp on the 125 gr. bullets and have fired several 6 shot groups ... checking the 6th round for bullet "pull out " and a good solid taper crimp will hold them in place .

I have a bullet mould (from NOE) that casts a 124 gr. truncated cone gas checked 9mm bullet ... it works great in 9mm and 38 Spcl , 38 Splc+P and 357 Magnum ... using the above steps.
Gary
I've never measured the older Colt .38 or .357 Magnum bores, but as you mentioned, they are considerably tighter than S&Ws which are usually around .357". .355" sounds right for an average for the Colts, but I believe it was gunwriter Ken Waters who stated in an article that some of the Colt barrels were as tight as .354". Regardless, I use cast bullets of .3575" to .358" in all .38 Special and .357 Magnum revolvers. They work fine and are accurate. .355" 9mm bullets would probably work well in the older Colts.

I wound up with some Super Vel 110 grain .38 / .357 jacketed bullets years ago. Super Vel sold component bullets but I don't know how popular they were. I don't recall the diameter but they were noticeably undersize for .38 caliber. To use them I would have had to change the adjustments on my dies which I chose not to do for a partial box of bullets. Undersize bullets may lower pressure but I'm not sure they would do much for accuracy.
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Old 09-03-2022, 11:06 AM
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Using Barry’s 124 plated bullets over 3.3 - 3.5 grains of Bullseye with light roll crimp, I haven’t had any problem with bullet pull or performance. They are definitely capable of minute of beer can.
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Old 09-03-2022, 11:34 AM
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Yes. if you want poor accuracy.

Why put apples into a cherry pie ??
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Old 09-03-2022, 11:40 AM
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Thanks for all the replies. I think I'll wait and get some 357 bullets.
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Old 09-03-2022, 12:11 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thejohn316 View Post
Thanks for all the replies. I think I'll wait and get some 357 bullets.
Granted, the right bullets will probably be better. However, if you're curious and enjoy load development, give the 9mm bullets a try unless you only have a few and then it wouldn't be worth the trouble.

The opinion of others who may have much experience is always helpful, but there are no rules that don't have exceptions.
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Old 09-03-2022, 12:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thejohn316 View Post
Thanks for all the replies. I think I'll wait and get some 357 bullets.
For a newer reloader that's a good idea. While a .355" bullet only has .001" "interference fit" in a barrel with a .357" groove diameter, and if you have access to .357" jacketed or .358"+ cast bullet, even if a short wait is needed, start off using the "proper" size bullets...
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Old 09-03-2022, 01:04 PM
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I looked up an old target that I shoot back in 2013, testing out the
38 vs 9mm bullet use in my S&W 686 6", while testing out my, at the time, new chrony.

Here is that target and how the two different dia. bullets, matched up.
The 38 was a 125 Gold Dot, the 9mm was a 124 gr JHP w/o a "can".

A picture is worth a 1,000 words.
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Old 09-03-2022, 01:28 PM
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BTW, I load 9mm bullets in 380acp. Only the lighter wights tho.
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Old 09-03-2022, 03:04 PM
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I’m a bit confused. SAAMI bore and groove diameters are the same. It is not clear to me why the bullets are not the same. I would try them in a 38/357.
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Old 09-03-2022, 06:16 PM
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My concern would be neck tension on the smaller .355" bullet.

Typical factory expander buttons are 3/1000th's smaller than the bullet diameter the calibers designed for. Hence the 357mag ='s a .354" expander button.

.354" expander/.355" bullet, not ideal for neck tension. Words like bullet setback and jump will start entering the vocabulary.

The smaller diameter bullet is meaningless in the bbl's. Too small of a bullet and the worst thing that could happen is the bullet tumbles.
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Old 09-03-2022, 06:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thejohn316 View Post
Thanks for all the replies. I think I'll wait and get some 357 bullets.
I wouldn't wait. I would reload them and shoot them. I'd ask the gun how well they are going to work.

Seems I remember they used to make a very high velocity commercial 357 loading. IIRC they used a slightly undersized bullet, maybe to keep pressures down.
Some of the early Super Vel ammo perhaps?
"Super Vel Original"

Last edited by max503; 09-03-2022 at 06:23 PM.
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Old 09-03-2022, 07:03 PM
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Lee factory crimp die might make it happen
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Old 09-04-2022, 12:02 AM
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I have been loading and shooting .355 jacketed projectiles in the 380 ACP, 9MM Parabellum, 356TSW, 9x23 Winchester, 38 Super, 38 Special and 357 Magnum Cartridges for decades

For me neck tension is not a problem for several reasons. Early on I had reduced the diameter of the many expander plugs by a .001" or so. I just chock them up in a drill or drill press and use some 400 or 600 grit Emery cloth to get the diameter down.

It is more art than science and I do not measure the result. If the first go was not enough, I did it again removing very little metal each time and always remembering to keep the Emory cloth damp with cutting fluid.


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Lee factory crimp die might make it happen
For the 357 Magnum specifically I use the LEE Factory Collet Crimp die. This takes care of the cannelure issue and holds any projectile firmly

This die came out to handle the needs of the Lever Action rifles. I use this same style die in every chambering that LEE offer it.

Unlike the LEE FCD, these LEE Factory Collet Crimp dies do not have a carbide ring to resize the case, they just have a multi segment collet that imparts a deep, symmetrical crimp to the cartridge that is very similar to way ammunition manufacturers crimp their ammunition

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Old 09-04-2022, 08:45 AM
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There should be no controversy. Of course 9mm bullets can be successfully used in every .38 cartridge (except .38-40). SAAMI specifications for .38 Special and .357 Magnum cartridges allow for using jacketed bullets having a diameter tolerance range of 0.355” to 0.358”. As previously noted, there is no crimping groove on a jacketed 9mm bullet, so heavy loadings could produce recoil that might pull other bullets in the chamber forward under inertia. However, there are ways around that. I have loaded 9mm FMJ bullets in .357 loads by seating them more deeply, allowing the case mouth to be slightly rolled over the bullet ogive. How well such loads group is another question which will depend on the specific gun and the specific loading used. To answer that, you will have to experiment.

For many years I have used 0.357-0.358 lead bullets for loading .38 S&W cartridges, and they perform just as well as they do using the “correct” bullet diameter of 0.361.

Last edited by DWalt; 09-04-2022 at 09:14 AM.
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Old 09-04-2022, 09:27 AM
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Yes, but they produce less than stellar accuracy.

If you use lead bullets you may find that .358 diameter produces better accuracy in the 9mm than .356 diameter. If so, then you have a single bullet you can use in both. Many shooters who load lead bullets in the 9mm use .357 or .358. I use both. I have one that likes .357 and the others .358. 9mm barrels vary rather wildly.

You can also buy .358 lead bullets and just size them down to whatever you want.

But with lead bullets don't go the other way. Lead .356 diameter bullets will lead your barrel up badly. Though I haven't tried coated lead bullets, and I'm not going too. The accuracy just isn't there.
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Old 09-04-2022, 09:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Forrest r View Post
My concern would be neck tension on the smaller .355" bullet.

Typical factory expander buttons are 3/1000th's smaller than the bullet diameter the calibers designed for. Hence the 357mag ='s a .354" expander button.

.354" expander/.355" bullet, not ideal for neck tension. Words like bullet setback and jump will start entering the vocabulary.

The smaller diameter bullet is meaningless in the bbl's. Too small of a bullet and the worst thing that could happen is the bullet tumbles.
To overcome the neck tension problem ... See post #12 .
There is a way to over come that problem .
I tried to explain it as clearly as I could . Simply use a set of 9mm Luger dies to get the bullet fit and taper crimp .
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Old 09-04-2022, 02:13 PM
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Super Vel used smaller diameter bullets to get the higher velocity they wanted.

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Originally Posted by rockquarry View Post
I've never measured the older Colt .38 or .357 Magnum bores, but as you mentioned, they are considerably tighter than S&Ws which are usually around .357". .355" sounds right for an average for the Colts, but I believe it was gunwriter Ken Waters who stated in an article that some of the Colt barrels were as tight as .354". Regardless, I use cast bullets of .3575" to .358" in all .38 Special and .357 Magnum revolvers. They work fine and are accurate. .355" 9mm bullets would probably work well in the older Colts.

I wound up with some Super Vel 110 grain .38 / .357 jacketed bullets years ago. Super Vel sold component bullets but I don't know how popular they were. I don't recall the diameter but they were noticeably undersize for .38 caliber. To use them I would have had to change the adjustments on my dies which I chose not to do for a partial box of bullets. Undersize bullets may lower pressure but I'm not sure they would do much for accuracy.
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Old 09-04-2022, 02:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by max View Post
Super Vel used smaller diameter bullets to get the higher velocity they wanted.
I think it was actually done to keep pressure down; whether undersized bullet would provide a higher velocity, I don't know. Many assume the old Super Vel .38s of pre-+P days were the hottest thing going, but as for pressures, they were fourth or fifth in line behind various Remington, Speer-DWM, and Norma loads.

Regarding actual velocities, the Speer-DWM 125 gr. and the Remington 125 gr. had about the same muzzle velocities as the Super Vel 110 gr.
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Old 09-05-2022, 06:18 PM
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From a related experiment after Cor Bon introduced a 115 gr. load in .38+P some years ago, I found that .355" JHPs weren't large enough in dia for .38 Special cases without adding some time consuming steps. They fit a good bit tighter in .357 Magnum cases. If you don't mind the labor, trimming .357 Mag cases to .38 Special length will work even better because the case-walls thicken as you travel down the case. It is also a method you can use to segregate these cases for your "Special" loads since after the trimming labor you're likely to load them multiple times, making it easier to distinguish them. I mostly use 124 gr. JHPs in 9 x 19mm, so they're what I've used most in loads that were defense oriented, not intended for target grade accuracy. I've done a lot of load development with 147 gr. JHP loads in 9 x19mm including +P, but I can't say for sure if they would fit in a shortened .357 Mag case without bulging. Since the 147 gr. XTP has a boat-tail that would help. Maybe the longer bullet shank might aid in using a slightly undersized bullet for the .357" bore.
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Old 09-06-2022, 03:40 PM
71vette 71vette is offline
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I did some load development work on another board with 147gr Speer Gold Dot G2 bullets in 38 Special +P. The thread started by another poster was intending to re-create the Federal 38 Special +P+ 147gr Hydrashock FBI load from I believe the '90's.

It used a 147gr 9mm Hydrashock bullet at about 1kfps from a 4" barrel. With the Speer G2's (from American Reloading) I was able to get 1k fps with a healthy dose of HS-6 (at +P pressures per GRT) and ended up using a Lee FCD to keep the bullets from moving. They shot just fine out of three different revolvers.

The other poster loaded up some in 357 Magnum with a max charge of HP-38 and got over 1100fps out of a 2.75" M66.
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Old 09-06-2022, 04:17 PM
TexasViking TexasViking is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 71vette View Post
I did some load development work on another board with 147gr Speer Gold Dot G2 bullets in 38 Special +P. The thread started by another poster was intending to re-create the Federal 38 Special +P+ 147gr Hydrashock FBI load from I believe the '90's.

It used a 147gr 9mm Hydrashock bullet at about 1kfps from a 4" barrel. With the Speer G2's (from American Reloading) I was able to get 1k fps with a healthy dose of HS-6 (at +P pressures per GRT) and ended up using a Lee FCD to keep the bullets from moving. They shot just fine out of three different revolvers.

The other poster loaded up some in 357 Magnum with a max charge of HP-38 and got over 1100fps out of a 2.75" M66.
I should back up a little. I have a proprietary cartridge that I won't get into here for obvious reasons. But case length is similar to what I described in shortening .357 Mag cases for 9mm bullets. And I should have pointed out that I got into this back when REM and WIN 9mm bulk JHPs were just over $40/k, 124 gr. Golden Sabers were about $45, and I had an excess of 9mm JHP bullets.
I remembered that I have, in fact, found that the 9mm 147 gr. XTP will fit, but I didn't follow through by actually making rounds. Just wanted to know if it could be done without case bulging because, as I mentioned, the longer shank of a 147 gr. XTP should help stabilize it in the bore a bit better. But at today's prices, I certainly didn't have enough to tinker with! And because it has a boattail, the 147 gr, XTP has a shorter shank that most 147 gr. JHPs.
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Old 09-13-2022, 11:42 AM
71vette 71vette is offline
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Here's my load data for the 38 Special +P 147gr work that I did with another member on ARFCOM. Obviously use at your own risk!

147gr Speer G2 Gold Dot seated to 1.40" COAL.
7.5gr HS-6, CCI Small Pistol Magnum primers

3.25" Smith 66 965fps
2.5" Smith 66 905fps
2" Smith 64 865fps


The 357 Magnum loadings (that I have not tried) are the following:

147gr Federal HST (American Reloading) seated to 1.587" COAL
7.1gr HP-38, Small Pistol Primers

2.75" Smith 66 1130fps

Same COAL and Bullet loaded with 16.0gr of Ramshot Enforcer

2.75" Smith 66 1275fps

Personally I think the Enforcer load is a little hot. The 38 Special HS-6 load has some "juice" when shot from the 2" 64. That's the only 38 Special I've shot it from. Everything else has been a Magnum revolver.

ETA - the 1k from a 4" is a "SWAG". I need to shoot that load from one of my 4" guns over the chrono to test but based on how it was tracking from 2" to 3.25" I'd expect it to hit 1k fps.

Last edited by 71vette; 09-13-2022 at 11:46 AM.
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