Many of us opt for small 38 special snub nose revolvers as our SD weapons. Easily concealable, practical and discrete these guns are hard to beat. Yet choosing right gun is only part of the story – the other part is choosing right load for the gun. This past weekend I made a range trip to test several of the old and new loads in my favorite carry snubbies. It turned interesting and I thought that range report would be in order.

The guns. For this shooting session I chose two .38 special revolvers: a humble S&W 442 – my everyday gun, and elegant 3rd generation Detective Spl in Colt Royal Blue. DS is a recent purchase of mine and I have to say that it is rapidly turning into my favorite carry piece. Everything about this gun feels right – size, grips, quality, capacity, pointability. Did I mention it looks great?

S&W 442



Colt Detective Special



The loads. Five loads were lined-up for testing.



Left to right are:
1. Speer 135 gr. GoldDot short barrel 38 spl +P
2. Buffalo Bore 158 gr. SWCHP heavy 38 spl +P
3. 38 spl +P+ handload:140 gr. Remington SJHP over 7.8 gr. VV 3N37
4. Remington 158 gr. FBI load (R38S12)
5. Last but not least, the handload pushing rugged edge of the 38 special caliber limit – 135 gr. Speer GoldDot bullet over 7.5 gr. 3N37

I decided to sacrifice for the sake of science, and broke one of the Buffalo Bore and one of the Remington loads. Now we can take a closer look at the bullets. Here they are: Speer 135 gr. GoldDot, Remington 140 gr. SJHP, Remington 158 gr. SWCHP and 158 gr. Buffalo Bore SWCHP-GC.



All bullets except BB were well within 1 grain of their advertised weight; BB turned out a little heavier – 163 gr. with the gas check removed.

Accuracy. Both guns shot like champs – at 15’ accuracy was between good and excellent with all loads.



Shooting impressions. The 135 gr. handload was very impressive - it clocked 1000 fps (SD 6; ES 12) in 442. Yes, that’s right - this 38spl load has same ballistics as Speer factory short barrel 357 magnum load! It generates 300 ft*lb muzzle energy while staying within CIP 38 spl limit – at least according to the manufacturer’s 2002 manual. Because it’s the same bullet and same velocity as in Speer factory load, there is no need for additional expansion and penetration testing. Flop-shank here in this forum and good folks at stoppingpower.net already tested Speer 357 mag factory load and found good penetration and reliable expansion. In as much as I liked this load I have to say that for SD it has one significant drawback – muzzle flash. Large, very hot, white muzzle flash…

I liked the 140 gr. +P+ load. I think it’s a nice one for training but not really practical for SD. In 442 it clocks 1050 fps (ME 343 ft*lb) but recoil was too much for me. Shooting it in Detective Spl was fun, yet not as much fun as BB. Buffalo Bore heavy 38spl +P load is in the class of its own. It was thoroughly tested by many others and several excellent reports are available. It will suffice to say that I was so impressed with the performance of Buffalo Bore load that I now carry it in DS.

As always Speer SB and Remington FBI factory loads worked well – reasonable recoil, good accuracy, and little if any muzzle flash. One unusual thing I noticed was that primers in the Speer factory loads looked a bit flat.



If it was a handload I’d be worried about excessive pressure, but it wasn’t a handload… Not sure what it means. Maybe to increase reliability, Speer uses soft match primers in this load. It makes sense because many inexperienced owners put reduced main springs in their J frame revolvers.

Conclusions. I had a lot of fun at the range and learned a thing or two about the guns and the loads. S&W 442 and Detective Special are very capable guns, each in its own right. Easily concealable and accurate they are pleasure to carry and fun to shoot. I regard these two among some of the best SD guns.

The 135 gr. GDHP +P handload has a good potential. This load has it all – excellent bullet, accuracy, ballistics, terminal performance. But the package comes with blinding muzzle flash. Is it a good carry load? I think it could be a good one… for me.

Buffalo Bore heavy 38spl+P is one of the most impressive loads I’ve ever shot. Kudos to Tim Sundles for bringing back old glory of the 38 special cartridge. With the right shooter it’s a hard load to beat in Detective Special or any small steel revolver.

Mike

__________________
9x19, 9x29R, 9x33R, 10x22

Many of us opt for small 38 special snub nose revolvers as our SD weapons. Easily concealable, practical and discrete these guns are hard to beat. Yet choosing right gun is only part of the story – the other part is choosing right load for the gun. This past weekend I made a range trip to test several of the old and new loads in my favorite carry snubbies. It turned interesting and I thought that range report would be in order.

The guns. For this shooting session I chose two .38 special revolvers: a humble S&W 442 – my everyday gun, and elegant 3rd generation Detective Spl in Colt Royal Blue. DS is a recent purchase of mine and I have to say that it is rapidly turning into my favorite carry piece. Everything about this gun feels right – size, grips, quality, capacity, pointability. Did I mention it looks great?

S&W 442



Colt Detective Special



The loads. Five loads were lined-up for testing.



Left to right are:
1. Speer 135 gr. GoldDot short barrel 38 spl +P
2. Buffalo Bore 158 gr. SWCHP heavy 38 spl +P
3. 38 spl +P+ handload:140 gr. Remington SJHP over 7.8 gr. VV 3N37
4. Remington 158 gr. FBI load (R38S12)
5. Last but not least, the handload pushing rugged edge of the 38 special caliber limit – 135 gr. Speer GoldDot bullet over 7.5 gr. 3N37

I decided to sacrifice for the sake of science, and broke one of the Buffalo Bore and one of the Remington loads. Now we can take a closer look at the bullets. Here they are: Speer 135 gr. GoldDot, Remington 140 gr. SJHP, Remington 158 gr. SWCHP and 158 gr. Buffalo Bore SWCHP-GC.



All bullets except BB were well within 1 grain of their advertised weight; BB turned out a little heavier – 163 gr. with the gas check removed.

Accuracy. Both guns shot like champs – at 15’ accuracy was between good and excellent with all loads.



Shooting impressions. The 135 gr. handload was very impressive - it clocked 1000 fps (SD 6; ES 12) in 442. Yes, that’s right - this 38spl load has same ballistics as Speer factory short barrel 357 magnum load! It generates 300 ft*lb muzzle energy while staying within CIP 38 spl limit – at least according to the manufacturer’s 2002 manual. Because it’s the same bullet and same velocity as in Speer factory load, there is no need for additional expansion and penetration testing. Flop-shank here in this forum and good folks at stoppingpower.net already tested Speer 357 mag factory load and found good penetration and reliable expansion. In as much as I liked this load I have to say that for SD it has one significant drawback – muzzle flash. Large, very hot, white muzzle flash…

I liked the 140 gr. +P+ load. I think it’s a nice one for training but not really practical for SD. In 442 it clocks 1050 fps (ME 343 ft*lb) but recoil was too much for me. Shooting it in Detective Spl was fun, yet not as much fun as BB. Buffalo Bore heavy 38spl +P load is in the class of its own. It was thoroughly tested by many others and several excellent reports are available. It will suffice to say that I was so impressed with the performance of Buffalo Bore load that I now carry it in DS.

As always Speer SB and Remington FBI factory loads worked well – reasonable recoil, good accuracy, and little if any muzzle flash. One unusual thing I noticed was that primers in the Speer factory loads looked a bit flat.



If it was a handload I’d be worried about excessive pressure, but it wasn’t a handload… Not sure what it means. Maybe to increase reliability, Speer uses soft match primers in this load. It makes sense because many inexperienced owners put reduced main springs in their J frame revolvers.

Conclusions. I had a lot of fun at the range and learned a thing or two about the guns and the loads. S&W 442 and Detective Special are very capable guns, each in its own right. Easily concealable and accurate they are pleasure to carry and fun to shoot. I regard these two among some of the best SD guns.

The 135 gr. GDHP +P handload has a good potential. This load has it all – excellent bullet, accuracy, ballistics, terminal performance. But the package comes with blinding muzzle flash. Is it a good carry load? I think it could be a good one… for me.

Buffalo Bore heavy 38spl+P is one of the most impressive loads I’ve ever shot. Kudos to Tim Sundles for bringing back old glory of the 38 special cartridge. With the right shooter it’s a hard load to beat in Detective Special or any small steel revolver.

Mike

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9x19, 9x29R, 9x33R, 10x22

Nice report. Did you happen to chrono the loads for which you didn't mention the velocities?

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Now go make God proud...

OUTSTANDING REPORT, Hop! Thank you for the excellent contribution.

Noah

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Nicht mehr als 30 Zeichen

Great report. I'm also interested in the chrono data if available. I'm also interested in the VV 3N37 powder. Where did you get your loading data. I haven't seen alot of load data on that brand.

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Andy

How in the world do you compete with a report like this? !!!!!!!!!!!!!


Good job my friend!
(I'm gonna whip you next time!)

Foot the bill to buy him some ballistic gel so he can add penetration results to his already most excellent report.

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Still Running Against the Wind

That was one of the best written reports I've enjoyed reading in a long time, complete with outstanding photographs!

Would you elaborate on how the BB load felt when fired out of your 442? I have a no-dash (not +P rated) 442.

Again, superb job! Thanks.

Hoptop;
Excellent report, excellent pictures. just excellent work all 'round!

It's nice to see talented people making good use of digital possibilities (pictures, chronograph data, posting and of course, the internet).

Dale53

Thanks for such a great read as well as your time and eefort. BTW if anyone wants to try to emulate Buffalo Bore ( well at least use the same bullet) you can buy the same LSWCHP that they use here.

http://www.rimrockbullets.net/...ath=3&products_id=74

Thanks for your kind words, friends. Glad that you enjoyed my report.

Erich and Andy, I got some chrono data on 3N37. Most of it was collected in SP101, the gun I use for short barrel development. Let me know if you are interested.

VV has a nice reloading manual available from their web site. Data for 3N37 loads in this report came from VV 2002 manual (Finnish edition). A little while ago we had a good discussion here about VV loading data - link.

Skip, why would you want to whip me? Friends don't whip friends, right? Or do they?

OCD1, for gelo testing I highly recommend services of brassfetcher.com. John has done some custom work for me in the past. I have nothing but good things to say about his dependability and professionalism.

Nitesight, no, I didn't shoot BB's in 442 - way too much recoil for me. I know from previous experience that most I can control in 442 is power factor 140-145; this BB load sports 160. Just for comparison, Speer SB factory load has PF118... I can shoot hotter loads but the gun shifts in my hand after every shot and it makes rapid fire impossible. Tim's web site lists some very potent standard pressure .38spl loads; check them out - link - maybe they will work for you in 442.

336A, thank you very much for the link. I was looking for soft 158 gr. LHP's for quite some time now and even tried to talk Jes into making some for me. I just ordered 500 bullets from the site you posted - have some ideas about duplicating BB +P load.

Mike

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9x19, 9x29R, 9x33R, 10x22

Yes sir, I'd love the chrono data on 3N37. Thanks for the link to the old thread- I'd missed that discussion on the VV powders.

Thanks again for a great report. You've inspired me to work on some better loads for my 642 and my marksmanship with it.

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Andy

In a friendly sort of way!

Healthy competition between friends can be exciting, as long as the two friends, stay friends! I don't think you and I would have any problem!

Andy,

Here is some chrono data for 3N37. It's not much but can help you get started.



I marked on the graph maximum load recommendations from several recent manuals. Take your pick.

Mike

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9x19, 9x29R, 9x33R, 10x22

I am truly in awe, what a beautiful job you did with this. You need to write for the gun mags. Seriously...that is one of the best range reports I have ever seen. NICELY done.

I have a 642 that replaced the 442 I wore out...(S&W Rocks when you have a problem, by the way) and I use a Bear Creek 148 lead wadcutter with 3.0 gr of HP38 and WSP in nickel Federal cases. Extremely light recoil and an absolute tack driver up close. about 720 fps...

Doesn't compare...but give it a shot for a plinker that you can practice with in the airweight.

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The gene pool needs Chlorine!

Thanks Hoptob, I'm putting 3N37 on my supplies list. Looks like an interesting powder for 38/357.

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Andy

I agree! Nice report.

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All Rights Reserved

That is the way ammo should be tested

And thanks to 336A for the link to rimrock bullets. Sure beats casting...

+1 on both points- good job!

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ΜΟΛΩΝ ΛΑΒΕ

Worth bringing back for those who missed it. Great eval.

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Thirty characters. Exactly...

Concerning the Buffalo Bore load,was it the softer cast bullet.If so how was the leading situation? I'm about to get some BB,but I do hate cleaning lead. Currently using the SB Gold Dot 135.

BB uses gas checks on their soft lead FBI loads, both for plus P and standard loadings. I use the standard loads in my 442 and have not had any leading problems. It is a little snappy in the Airweight gun. About the same as for the Speer 135 gr SB in my experience. I think the power factor is about the same.

rat

Nice piece of field research.

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John 1:17
NRA Life Benefactor

The Buffalo Bore Load has a gas check that eliminates much of the leading.
I have chronographed this load in both my 2" M60-7 Chief's Special (1025 fps) and in my 2" Colt Detective Special (1040 fps).

I have also chronographed the Remington 158 gr. +P (FBI load) out of the 2" Chief's and I have averaged 775 fps. The Speer Gold Dot 135 +P out of the same gun was 890 fps.

I have also tested the Buffalo Bore NON +P standard pressure 158 grain lead bullet out of the 2" Chief's and it averages about 860 fps. which is about 10% more than the Remington +P FBI load.

Chief38

Thanks,gents.

Hoptob, you are always worth the time to read up on your thinking. Thanx......

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dd884
JMHO-YMMV