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Old 03-25-2009, 08:49 AM
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What the best thing you ever found to clean leading out of your barrels and cylinders?
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Old 03-25-2009, 08:49 AM
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What the best thing you ever found to clean leading out of your barrels and cylinders?
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Old 03-25-2009, 08:53 AM
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lewis lead remover.
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Old 03-25-2009, 09:04 AM
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Liquid mercury, but I'm not necessarily recommending it.
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Old 03-25-2009, 09:08 AM
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Copper chore boy wrapped around a bore brush with No. 9.
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Old 03-25-2009, 09:10 AM
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lewis lead remover.
Works VERY good and you can spend lots of money on other ideas such as SS Steel Wool or Bronze Wool or one of the other softer metals. Do NOT use regular steel wool on a SS gun as this will leave small bits of the wool embedded in the metal and will increase the likely hood of rusting. SS bore brushes can be used on either type of barrel/cylinder because these brushes are made from a softer grade of SS than the guns are and also aren't put through any hardening or heat treating process so they are very soft.
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Old 03-25-2009, 10:53 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by duckloads:
Copper chore boy wrapped around a bore brush with No. 9.
+1 just a few passes will bring lead out in slivers.
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Old 03-25-2009, 11:45 AM
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Oversized bronze brush for the chambers.Patch coated with JB bore cleaning paste wrapped around a worn bronze brush for the barrel.

It's always worked for me.
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Old 03-25-2009, 12:02 PM
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I use something called "miracle cloth"(sp?) (similar to "lead away"). Just cut a small strip and wrap it arround a subcaliber bore brush to make a snug fit. The cloth is chemically active so give it 5 or 10 minutes to work then clean with solvent as usual.

Also good for cleaning the front of cylinders but use cautiously on blued surfaces as it can remove the bluing if over-rubbed.
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Old 03-25-2009, 01:25 PM
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I've virtually eliminated leading by gauging cyl throats and bores. Casting at the needed Brinell hardness. Then properly sizing my cast slugs so they are the optimim size.

#2.... Lewis Lead Remover.
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Old 03-25-2009, 02:00 PM
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Lewis Lead Remover.
Second the motion.

Of course, preventing leading works even better. To that end, I primarily shoot poly-coated bullets. One or two jacketed rounds after a session doesn't hurt, either. Neither does a BoreSnake when the gun is still hot.
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Old 03-25-2009, 03:28 PM
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+1 on preventing leading. I lightly coat my commercially cast lead bullets with Lee Liquid Alox and found leading almost a non-issue. When I do have some I use an old bore brush wrapped with a couple of turns of Chore Boy copper mesh. I also use a Lead Free cloth to clean the cylinder face and frame.

I hope that helps,

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Old 03-25-2009, 04:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by n4zov:
Liquid mercury, but I'm not necessarily recommending it.
+1 on mercury. Works great. LOL, it's funny; back in 1972 we used to play with it in chemistry lab all the time. Made little balls, rolled 'em around, and then brushed it off on the lab floor. No one gave it a second thought then.
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Old 03-25-2009, 05:35 PM
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Quote:
back in 1972 we used to play with it in chemistry lab all the time. Made little balls, rolled 'em around, and then brushed it off on the lab floor. No one gave it a second thought then.
Used to turn copper pennies silver!!
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Old 03-25-2009, 07:40 PM
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For lots of leading a 50/50 mix of hydrogen peroxide and white vinegar in the barrel will remove leading chemically. I use a vacuum plug from the auto store of the right size to plug the chamber, set the barrel vertical and pour in the mix. You need to watch the reaction and when it stops bubbling its time to pour out the solution and rinse with plain water as if left any longer it will attack the barrel and pit it. Its best not to leave it in the barrel for more than 10 to 15 minutes. Clean with patches afterward and oil.

The scum that floats to the top contains the lead and as such is toxic so dispose of where it won't contact food (ie. not down the kitchen sink). While all the cautions eem like a lot of trouble, it does save hours of scrubbing with a bore brush.
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Old 03-25-2009, 08:39 PM
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Best, as in easiest? Mercury. Run a clean, new, bronz brush through to abrade and claen the surface of the leading, pour in the Mercury, pour out and set the gun aside 30 minutes or so. Just use a tight patch and most, if not all, of the lead will come out with NO scrubbing at all. If not, just apply some more and wait. Don't recall ever needing more than three applications.

As toxic as the greenies want you to think Mercury is, it is amazing anyone born in the 40's didn't die of Mercury poisoning!!!!
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Old 03-25-2009, 09:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by KKG:
lewis lead remover.Works VERY good . . .
+1. The safest, most effective way to remove leading.


Quote:
Do NOT use regular steel wool on a SS gun as this will leave small bits of the wool embedded in the metal and will increase the likelihood of rusting . . .
+1000 !!! This is an OUTSTANDING recommendation to anyone with a SS firearm; NEVER use steel wool. Worst thing you can do to a SS firearm.

SS firearms are passivated in an acid bath during manufacture to remove microscopic free iron particles remaining from metalworking and processing. Without removing the free iron, those tiny invisible bit of iron and steel will initiate corrosion sites in the stainless, and under the right conditions will do some significant pitting.

Noah
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Old 03-25-2009, 09:55 PM
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Unless the leading is of biblical proportions I just shoot a few jacketed rounds through my gun and it takes it right out. That and a gentle scrub with a bronze brush.
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Old 03-26-2009, 12:21 AM
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Flat based bullets sized to the same diameter of the cylinder throats with a nice soft lube will keep them from leading.

If I get bad leading from some factory loads or undersized lead bullets, I chuck a short length of cleaning rod in my electric drill. I wrap a BRONZE bore brush with coarse BRONZE wool (like others said, DON'T use steel wool, no matter how fine, or you will wreck your gun) so that it is tight in the cylinder or barrel. I coat the bronze wool wrapped bronze brush with JB Compound, then shove it into the bore or cylinder and hit the trigger of the drill. Work the wrapped brush back and forth in your barrel or cylinder while the drill is running. It only takes a five to ten second shot in each chamber of your cylinder, and a ten to fifteen second shot in your barrel to clean the whole nine yards. Use a tapered bore guide on your rod, because all you have to do is hit your chamber mouth or end of your barrel for a second with the cleaning rod and you'll mess up your barrel crown or chamber mouth.

This works REALLY well and is VERY fast, but you have to be VERY careful! It is the only thing that will clean lead out of the polygon rifling of a Glock (which is why they tell you not to use lead bullets in a Glock). If you wrap the bronze wool a bit thick after running the brush through your barrel this method cleans your forcing cone slicker than greased owl manure! This is the fastest and most certain way I know of cleaning lead out of a handgun.
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Old 03-26-2009, 08:32 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by ChuckS1:
+1 on mercury. Works great. LOL, it's funny; back in 1972 we used to play with it in chemistry lab all the time. Made little balls, rolled 'em around, and then brushed it off on the lab floor. No one gave it a second thought then.
I remember the same from the late fifties, early sixties. What gives? I believe that it is poisonous, probably more so than we thought then, but surely less than we are being led to believe now.

Does anybody know?
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Old 03-26-2009, 09:28 AM
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Mercury will preform magic in a leaded barrel. I have also been told that it will make the metal brittle. Don't know that for sure but it's someting to think about. I used it on a Ruger Super Blackhawk years ago. Made the bore shine like chrome. Anyone know if using mercury will damage the metal?
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Old 03-26-2009, 09:41 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Model520Fan:
Quote:
Originally posted by ChuckS1:
+1 on mercury. Works great. LOL, it's funny; back in 1972 we used to play with it in chemistry lab all the time. Made little balls, rolled 'em around, and then brushed it off on the lab floor. No one gave it a second thought then.
I remember the same from the late fifties, early sixties. What gives? I believe that it is poisonous, probably more so than we thought then, but surely less than we are being led to believe now.

Does anybody know?
Can't be that bad. Probably the same scare tactics used by the libs to ban lead in California.
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Old 03-26-2009, 10:43 AM
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I think the powers-that-be go overboard about mercury nowadays, but many also UNDERRATE its toxicity.

When I first started working for the Forest Service in Idaho I went with my boss to visit a very small gold mining operation on the National Forest. One of the older miners was walking around with a cane and would occasionally lose his balance and had to catch himself. He also talked about half nuts. When we got back in our pickup and started driving back to the office my boss said, "You know why that guy loses his balance and acts so nutty don't you?" I admitted I didn't. He went on to tell me that the reason the guy was having so many problems was because he had been using mercury to retrieve small amounts of gold in his pan, then retorting the mercury/gold mix to separate the metals in a potato (small miners have done this for ages). My boss said that breathing the fumes from using potato retorts will give a person mercury poisoning over time. The loss of balance and acting nutty are symptoms of mercury poisoning.

That is where the term "Mad as a Hatter" came from. They used to use mercury in the hat-making industry, and mercury poisoning made the Hatters act crazy.
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Old 03-26-2009, 10:58 AM
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Agree with mercury 100%. But make sure you take off any gold jewelry like a wedding ring. Mercury will instantly turn gold black and I do not believe this can easily be reversed.
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Old 03-26-2009, 03:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Mr. Tree:
Agree with mercury 100%. But make sure you take off any gold jewelry like a wedding ring. Mercury will instantly turn gold black and I do not believe this can easily be reversed.
When I was a kid it turned some of my 14K gold ring silver-colored (actually, mercury-colored). I believe that I removed the amalgam with steel wool or something similar.
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Old 03-28-2009, 07:44 PM
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I used to carry a little chrome vile of mercury in my pocket when I was kid to shine pennies with. I also used it once to see if it would turn the filling in my teeth a bright silver like it did pennies. Luckily it didn't or I might have kept them polished with it all the time if it did. I was about 12 years old at the time and now I'm a few months from 60 with no ill effects so far unless you call wearing a tin foil hat strange which I don't think there's anything strange about it since all the other little people here at the home with me are wearing them.

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Old 03-28-2009, 08:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by BunnySlayer:
Unless the leading is of biblical proportions I just shoot a few jacketed rounds through my gun and it takes it right out. That and a gentle scrub with a bronze brush.
Shooting some jacketed bullets is the easiest way, and does no harm. Firing some gas checked cast bullets will usually take it out, too.
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Old 03-28-2009, 08:28 PM
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Quote:
Originally posted by bloo:
Mercury will preform magic in a leaded barrel. I have also been told that it will make the metal brittle. Don't know that for sure but it's someting to think about. I used it on a Ruger Super Blackhawk years ago. Made the bore shine like chrome. Anyone know if using mercury will damage the metal?
Mercury will amalgamate with Cupric (Copper based) alloys, Lead, Silver, Gold, and possibly the other noble metals, but it will cause no problems with Ferric (Iron based) alloys. Amalgamation is what causes Mercury to easily remove the Lead, and is what makes brass cartridges which were fired with Mercuric primers brittle.
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Old 03-29-2009, 08:58 AM
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Where would one find Mercury these days?
I also remember playing with as a kid. Used to be in thermostats and some thermometers
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Old 03-29-2009, 01:34 PM
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For anybody considering using mercury as a lead remover, the lead ends up as a very fine powder floating on the top of the mercury. I'm no chemist, but I suspect this powder is very toxic, and great care should be taken not to inhale it. Just blowing it off in an enclosed space might not be a very good idea.
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Old 03-29-2009, 02:49 PM
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Back 50 years ago we used mercury in a hankerchief to magically turn pennies into dimes ala The Boy Scout magazine.
I have a lot of pure mercury but only a fool would use it for any reason. If anyone wants some mercury and can pay the hazardous shipping costs and liability insurance I will ship you some.
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Old 03-29-2009, 02:53 PM
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By the way I would never recommend trying to shoot out leading using jacketed or gas checked bullets, you are asking for high pressures. You just iron lead into the bore and make the bore look shiny.
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Old 03-29-2009, 06:23 PM
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For removing leading from cylinder chambers, I chuck a bronze brush, damp with a bit of Hoppes No. 9, into a cordless drill.
30 seconds at medium speed, with a tight bore brush, removes it. I use .25 caliber brushes in .22, .35 in .32, .40 in .35 (.38, .357) and .50 in .44/45.
I would never use a steel brush in a steel chamber, for fear of removing chamber metal and changing chamber dimensions over time, but bronze brushes will wear before the steel chamber does.
For barrels, I use Iosso bore cleaner. It's a paste that comes in a tube. Alas, I ran out last week and didn't save the tube, so I can't recall if that's the real name.
Best stuff I've found.
If I can't find Iosso -- and it's harder and harder to find anymore -- I use JB Non-Embedding Bore Cleaning Compound. Comes in a small, screw-top tub.
With either Iosso or JB I put some on a clean patch, work it well into the fabric, then put the patch over the flat end of a length of wooden dowel that fits loosely in the bore.
Should be such a tight fit that you have to tap the dowel/patch combination down the bore.
When the patch emerges, it will carry with it long ribbons of lead it's picked up along the way.
A couple of treatments like this and most lead is gone and the bore gleams.
Follow this treatment with a a couple patches damp with Hoppes 9 to remove any paste residue.
This treatment will remove lead and fouling you can't even see.
Years ago, I was given a Marlin 410 lever-action shotgun. Built on the Model 93 action, it dated to 1929.
Lots of work with a bronze brush and Hoppes 9 left the bore bright and shiny.
Then I gave it the tight patch/Iosso treatment.
Wow!
Streaks of brown (rust) and black (lead) on the patch told me it was far from clean. My eyes had lied to me!
A couple more treatments of a tight patch on a cleaning rod, working it back and forth with the Iosso, left the bore sparkling.
Iosso is good stuff. If you find a tube of it, buy two; it's hard to find.
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Old 03-29-2009, 08:01 PM
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LEWIS LEAD REMOVER!!!


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Old 03-30-2009, 08:07 AM
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Quote:
Originally posted by Hillbilly Jim:
By the way I would never recommend trying to shoot out leading using jacketed or gas checked bullets, you are asking for high pressures. You just iron lead into the bore and make the bore look shiny.
That simply isn't the case.
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Old 03-30-2009, 05:47 PM
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Wow, can't believe I've made it to page 3 and not seen anyone recommend the Outer's Foul Out system. I've used the Foul Out III for years to clean leading from bores. Works electrochemically, kind of like reverse chrome plating. Not nearly as toxic as the mercury!! Not nearly as labor-intensive as most of these scrubbing techniques (though they are innovative). You just plug the bore, fill it with the provided chemical, drop the electrode in and walk away. Come back in 15/20 and pull the electrode out with most or all of the leading on it. Repeat only if necessary (isn't usually) then clean the remaining carbon out with your normal solvent. Works on copper too, using a different chemical.
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Old 03-30-2009, 06:26 PM
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"Big .45's Frontier Metal Cleaner" works great. It is a metal wool that looks like coarse steel wool but isn't. Comes in single pads in a sandwich bag-sized bag with a hanger-perforated label. Tear or cut a few strands from the pad and wipe around a worn cleaning brush and scrub away.

It won't wear blue from the metal and I use it with oil to remove light surface rusting, as well.

Skeeter Skelton wrote about it, so it can't be bad!
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Old 03-30-2009, 06:40 PM
James57 James57 is offline
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I bought a Foul Out I when they first came out and was very happy with it. Then came the Foul Out II and I thought, hmmm. Then Foul Out III came out. By that time I was out of Foul Out lead removal liquid so I bought a new quart of Foul Out liquid. It would not work with my Foul Out I. Light would come on in about 5 minutes saying the barrel was clean but it was not. Tried several time changing the liquid in the bore, cleaning and re-cleaning the rod. Nothing worked. I sent a message to Outers on their web site and that was about 4 years ago and I still haven't heard one word from them. I may call them but I'm not optimistic about any help as a fellow on another forum having the same problem and contacted them by phone and their advice was to buy their new Foul Out III. They did not admit to changing formula or would not offer any remedy for his Foul Out I. I may call them and see what they say about this; I have not bought anything from Outer's since I had my problem and if a solution is not offered, I will never.
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Old 03-30-2009, 06:52 PM
S/W - Lifer S/W - Lifer is offline
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I've yet to clean lead from a bore on my duty handguns. We were told to shoot a few jacketed rounds to clean up the bore and it has worked for me. That is following factory wadcutters. Lead from cast bullets could be different.
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Old 03-30-2009, 10:56 PM
bigt5150 bigt5150 is offline
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My personal favorite is a 50/50 mix of Hoppes #9 and Kroil. Swab your barrel and cylinder chambers liberally and let it sit for about 10-20 minutes, the longer the better. The lead looks like it oozes out of the barrel.
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Old 03-31-2009, 03:29 AM
Forty Five Auto Forty Five Auto is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by james57:
I bought a Foul Out I when they first came out and was very happy with it. Then came the Foul Out II and I thought, hmmm. Then Foul Out III came out. By that time I was out of Foul Out lead removal liquid so I bought a new quart of Foul Out liquid. It would not work with my Foul Out I. Light would come on in about 5 minutes saying the barrel was clean but it was not. Tried several time changing the liquid in the bore, cleaning and re-cleaning the rod. Nothing worked. I sent a message to Outers on their web site and that was about 4 years ago and I still haven't heard one word from them. I may call them but I'm not optimistic about any help as a fellow on another forum having the same problem and contacted them by phone and their advice was to buy their new Foul Out III. They did not admit to changing formula or would not offer any remedy for his Foul Out I. I may call them and see what they say about this; I have not bought anything from Outer's since I had my problem and if a solution is not offered, I will never.
Hmmm, that is not a very rousing account of Outers Customer Service.... I bought the III when it came out and it's still the current production. I know for a fact Outers says the chemicals are not compatible. I don't have any details as to why. Your troubles with the company notwithstanding, the equipment works great for me.
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Old 03-31-2009, 05:51 AM
David Sinko David Sinko is offline
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Last year I tried to acquire some mercury to clean the leading out of my cylinder throats. I asked our Fire Inspector if he knew where I could get hooked up. He told me about a large mercury reclamation and processing center in the city. I had never known it's there. I stopped by one day to ask if I could buy some and was promptly lectured and chastised about the grave consequences of handling mercury. No luck. A few weeks later we were told to keep an eye on the place because some of the employees (they actually hired criminals who were out on work release) were caught putting mercury into the boss's shoes. If mercury were half as dangerous as they claimed it to be, that dump would've been shut down years ago and that part of the city declared unfit for human habitation.

I'd still like to try it if I could get some.

Dave Sinko
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Old 03-31-2009, 09:16 AM
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Mercury like lead is hazardous if ingested. It causes neurological problems and is not excreted from the body so exposure is cumulative. Given the same precautions in handling as lead for casting, and the additional problem of it being liquid there should not be a great risk in its use. However, if you use it like Hoppes #9 for routine cleaning you will greatly increase your exposure.

For most of our lifetime mercury was used to make the silver amalgam to fill our dental cavities. Silver becomes suspended in the mercury which makes it flow. the amalgam was put into the teeth and upon sitting the mercury separated and was removed by pressure and vacuum. Mercury has a similar effect on gold and lead. Life time exposure from dental use was not seen as hazardous; however, most of the dental profession has moved to mercury free fillings.

IMHO, if you have some use it carefully and only when leading is severe. If you do not have any give kroil and Lewis lead removal system a try.
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Old 03-31-2009, 05:30 PM
Hillbilly Jim Hillbilly Jim is offline
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I have used for many years The Outers foul out first version, I think. I even made one using some old stuff around the house. Put it on a variable rheostat and let it go, actually had to slow it down but it worked.
If you shoot out the lead and get a clean bore[you think] put the gun on an Outers with lead removal solution, when finally clean switch to copper out then back to lead out.
Takes a while to get through the layers which have built up. Thats why I dont believe in shooting out lead!
Do it right with a Lewis lead remover.
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Old 04-01-2009, 06:28 PM
Skip Sackett Skip Sackett is offline
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Quote:
For lots of leading a 50/50 mix of hydrogen peroxide and white vinegar in the barrel will remove leading chemically.

Cheap and efficient. I take a plastic jag and a couple of patches and poke them in the end of the barrel to hold the solution in. Pour it in and let it sit for just a few minutes, take a wet, with the solution, patch and push out the black gunk. Oil well inside and out and, all, ALL of the leading is gone.

No elbow grease, no special tool, no "miracle" paste and all for about 10 cents.

The only reason I need it though is for my 9mm Sig. I cannot seem to get the fit/firmness right for it with lead bullets.

Proper fit=#1
Peroxide/Vinegar=#2
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Old 09-09-2010, 08:17 PM
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Where would one find Mercury these days?
I also remember playing with as a kid. Used to be in thermostats and some thermometers
You can find a small drop of mercury in compact fluorescent light bulbs (I call them curly cue light bulbs). It's interesting that the incandescent light bulb which is now seen by many people (mostly liberal pu$$ies) as being a danger to the environment, has been replaced by a light bulb that now has a drop of mercury in every single one. Mercury is a poison but playing with a small amount of it will not hurt you at all. Like most metals such as lead and mercury, the body does a wonderful job of ridding your body of it. Most ingested or absorbed mercury passes through your body unabsorbed. Your body also rids itself of mercury by creating compounds of mercury that are a gas which are then released from your lungs and exhaled in the same manner as when you exhale carbon dioxide. (Trust me on this, I am a chemist). Most cases of mercury poisoning occurred in the past before the dangers where known and happened to people who were exposed to it everyday for years.

On a side note, most people wrongly believe you can get a lot of mercury from fish. Fish do have higher levels of mercury but the level is natural and is not caused by any contamination by humans. (An exception to this is the Minamata Bay disaster in Japan where chemical companies dumped 1000's of tons of mercury waste for several decades into the bay that people fished in. This may be where the so called fish/mercury danger originated from). Further more, fish have evolved a way to protect themselves from natural mercury levels by also absorbing selenium which has a countering effect to the toxicity of mercury. This protection is passed on to anyone who eats the fish.

As far as people using a hydrogen peroxide and vinegar solution, I would caution against this. While this will react with the lead and dissolve it, the peroxide will also react at the same time with the metal of the gun. Peroxide is an oxidizer and will react with almost all metals in the same way. The acetic acid in the vinegar will also do the same thing but to a lesser extent. Over time this will erode your barrel and cylinder which will actually increase the likelihood of leading. I would say that if you go this route, only do it sparingly.

For de-leading, I would recommend a non-chemical, non-destructive method such as a copper chore type brush as this will not scratch the bore or chambers since the copper is softer than the steel but yet will remove the lead since the copper is harder than the lead.
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Old 09-09-2010, 08:43 PM
Skip Sackett Skip Sackett is offline
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This is a resurrected thread! My last post in it was over a year ago! WOW! Do people really read them after they are that old?

Just cleaned a couple of firearms tonight. All lead shooting with these two and there was maybe 10 tiny flakes of lead total from both guns.

One was a Puma rifle in 45 Colt and the other a Ruger 45 Convertible with the 45 Colt cylinder in it.

I have driven lead bullets from both of these firearms at the top of the known 45 Colt data and have had some extreme velocity in both. A 240gr LSWC going 1500fps from the 5 1/2" barrel and upwards of 1900fps from the long gun!

Most of the bullets are lubed with a homemade concoction. 50% White Label Liquid Xlox and 50% Beeswax. They all were sized to .452" and shot extremely well.

I recently drove some 230gr LRN 45ACP bullets out of the handgun @ 1000fps so the residue from them + some of the hotter, heavier loads was in the same barrel. Three or four patches soaked with Ed's Red and one trip with a wire brush and it was as clean as a whistle.

Fit works!
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Old 09-09-2010, 09:02 PM
Damn Yankee Damn Yankee is offline
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Just take a old bronze brush and wrap 0000 steel wool around it and go to work with some bore cleaner. The lead will be on the wool when it is removed.

I have also used Mother's Mag Polish on the bore to polish it. Looks like chrome plated when done. You will be surprised how black the patches will be till you get it polished.
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Old 09-09-2010, 09:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by David Sinko View Post
Last year I tried to acquire some mercury to clean the leading out of my cylinder throats. I asked our Fire Inspector if he knew where I could get hooked up. He told me about a large mercury reclamation and processing center in the city. I had never known it's there. I stopped by one day to ask if I could buy some and was promptly lectured and chastised about the grave consequences of handling mercury. No luck. A few weeks later we were told to keep an eye on the place because some of the employees (they actually hired criminals who were out on work release) were caught putting mercury into the boss's shoes. If mercury were half as dangerous as they claimed it to be, that dump would've been shut down years ago and that part of the city declared unfit for human habitation.

I'd still like to try it if I could get some.

Dave Sinko
That reminds me that some years back, we had some local hoods who hijacked a whole truck loaded with mercury. A local businessman was involved somehow and he ended up in prison along with his cohorts for a seven year sentence. The mercury was recovered and was considered to be a very valuable cargo at the time.
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Old 09-09-2010, 10:07 PM
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Copper chore boy wrapped around a bore brush with No. 9.
+ a bunch.
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