A lot of people use the term "target load", what does that really mean? I have put over 3500 rounds through my 686 and 629 since the first of the year in hopes of finding my "target load"; the one that hits the bullseye consistently Guess what, it ain't a reduced load and it aint a lead wadcutter or semi-wadcutter. I have tested at the range over and over, with the same results. The most accurate .357 and .44 magnum loads from my revolvers are with 158 and 300 grain HP-XTP's and max (full case) loads of VVN110. These kick like hell, but hit where you are aiming. All of this testing has been done with a scope and from a rest. So when someone says "target load", don't assume it is a downloaded, low recoil, lead cast bullet. I wish this was the case for me because the slow burning powders and the XTP bullets are a lot more expensive than a light load of fast powder and a cast bullet. I can't see the point of downloading my .44 magnum just to get less recoil and noise, when it doesn't shoot like it was intended to do. The same with the 686. If you wan't accuracy with less recoil and no noise, shoot a 617. Just my experience this year. I have tried hard to get those lead cast bullets to work, but they just won't cooperate. If you can put yours inside two inches at 100 yards, please let me know what load you are using.

__________________
686 & 629

If you can shoot 2inch groups at a 100 yrds.
you have a heck of a gun and you are a darn good shot. I shot in bullseye conptition a lot of years ago. We loaded 3.5 grs.of bullseye pwd.
under a 185grain cast swc. This was very accurate and it was low veloicty. maybe your gun shoots better with mag. loads. If it does then shoot mag.loads. I agree target loads depend on what gun, the purpose and the person.
DON

__________________
"Don't worry be happy"

There can be no doubt that you have experienced very accurate loads from your revolvers, I believe you.

Two things to remember though. Most folks that shoot handgun at "targets", mostly paper, do so at ranges much closer than 100 yards. For over 90% of us, it is under 50 yards. Another thing to remember is that we don't use scopes either, those are for hunting, for the most part.

Target loads? Usually, like I said before, they are for folks doing some kind of paper killing. Whether it is IDPA, IPSC, PPC or Bullseye competition, 2" groups at 50 yards with open sights is just fine, and those can be, and have been by the way, obtained with 148gr-158gr LWC or LSWC for more years than either of us have been born.

Here is what happens to some of us shooters. We get pretty good at what we want. We buy a gun, some components to reload, maybe get into one of the shooting sports, then BLAMMO, everybody ought to be shooting just like us. Well, that ain't the way it works. Each discipline has it's own merits and following. To take a 148gr LHBWC driven at 650fps isn't going to make the ram steel target go "BONG" @ 500 yards. That doesn't mean that it has no place in shooting sports! It simply means that it doesn't have anyplace in "silly-wet" shooting.

The reverse is also true. A 300gr XTP @ 1400fps, while being the most accurate from your firearm @ 100 yards is going to do you no good at all @ 7 yards, trying to get off 12 rounds in 18 seconds with a reload. You may get it done, but with the scope and all that recoil, that 1" group @ 100 yards is going to look like a shotgun's 00 Buck pattern!

FWIW

I think with the commercial ammo "Target" signifies a lighter powder load and, maybe, a lighter bullet. For reloading, it means this load shoots more consistently in this gun.

I have to agree with Skip on this one.
A target load is one that makes the power required (If any) for the sanctioning group in question and produces adequate practical accuracy.

There are people who get all wrapped around the axel about some theoretical mechanical accuracy, but they are most often not successful in practical pistol shooting competition.

Shoots where time is a factor, like IDPA, USPSA, PPC, steel challenge, etc COULD be shot with a full-house .44 magnum, but you'd be considered out of your mind.

Even pistol silhouette does not require 2" groups at 100yd.

__________________
Science plus Art

It was not my intent to imply that my "target loads" are better than anyone elses. I think it is interesting to see how each shooter views what a target load is to them. The term is thrown around all of the time, and seems to get the tag of being low power and being a wadcutter, or semi. Believe me, I tried hard to get the lower powered loads to work at 100 yards, but I couldn't. 100 yards bench rest is my thing just like 1000 yard rifle benchrest is to others. Frankly, I can't shoot off-hand worth a darn so that is why I like the accuracy end of it from a bench rest. I will say though, I bought a 44 magnum to learn to shoot 44 magnum cartridges at magnum loads. When I am out with the bench rest rifle guys, I can assure you they are not shooting reduced loads for accuracy. It is fun to try and compete with them. I wish there was a 100 yard, handgun, bench rest competition, similar to rifles. It would be a lot of fun.

__________________
686 & 629

How long are your barrels on these magnums?

a swaged lead swc by speer, not cast lead, has shot with superb accuracy out of every s&w in 38, 357, and 44 magnum i have owned. loaded to about 850fps it is a fine cartridge, call it mid-range, target, whatever. at 100yds you need a powerful load to provide the trajectory necessary for accuracy. you can't have it both ways.

Maybe you should start one.

You might find it soon completely dominated by the "handrifles" much as silhouette.

__________________
Science plus Art

"Target" loads, to me, are specific to the intended use. Generally meaning the load delivering best accuracy under optimal conditions using a rested firing position, it can also be specific to a type of target shooting. Some of my hottest hunting loads also give great accuracy, no suprise because that's what they were developed to do. But I wouldn't want to use them for informal target shooting, nor could I use them for things like CAS, lever action silhouette, or other target/action games. And my best formal target loads usually require more expensive components, like jacketed bullets. They are a little cost prohibitive right now unless you really need them for a formal competition. So I have developed many optimal plinking/target loads, usually using cast bullets, that are my general "target" loads, and some of them deliver really decent accuracy within their respective uses and ranges. However, for a specialty pistol like a T/C Contender, I expect remarkable performance from the bench. Thus, a 300gr JHP @ 1670fps from my 12" 45/70 barrel is my target load, delivering about 3/4-1" groups at 100 yards from the bench. It's even fun to shoot ... for a while !

__________________
" I said, good DAY! "

For me I have three loads. My target loads are mainly for paper and shooting quick double action or quick type shooting without a ton or recoil and muzzle rise. My medium loads are generally stiffer loads to paper hunt or if I have to, I could use them in a hunting or self defense situation in a pinch. My "good" loads are hot as hell, barn burners that are not to be shot at paper (too expensive to just paper punch) and are not to be taken lightly. They are not something I realy don't enjoy shooting a bunch of and I use them sparingly to pattern a firearm to make sure I know their point of aim. The only calibers I don't do this system with is my 38 s&w's out of my old Victory models, they only see my taget load type rounds and my 500 which only sees my hunting loads. I just have not loaded anything but hunting ammo for it because I do not think of it as a target gun. Just one dude's opinion.

I generally think of target loads as lower velocity wadcutter loads for punching paper. But it really dependes upon you, your gun and the application. That's the great thing about reloading. You're not restricted to someone elses labels. Your target, sd and hunting loads can be whatever you define them to be.

__________________
Andy

I would simply replace the 50yds with 25yds. Mostly what I’ve observed is very few people shoot at 50yds. The vast majority shoots at 25yds and usually likes to get closer much-much-much-much closer.

How true and GUILTY!

I think the reason is one of two things. Too much TV or combat handgun competition.

With my newly acquired Glock 22 I have been working my way up to some action shooting. ISPC or something. The problem we have in my area is that most clubs run their competition on Sunday. I have other priorities on that day.

We did find a club that is about 2 hours away that has one on Saturday. We are going to check it out next month.

At any rate, combat shooting seems to have a whole different definition to the word "accuracy". A one hole group at 21ft is less preferred to "two amidships and one to the cranium". I think it has something to do with actual combat shooting. One hole is less preferred in a human to three gaping wounds all letting precious life out. It is the old "close enough" kind of shooting, so to speak.

Speaking to Dennis' point about "close combat" reminds me of a course of fire my son had to go through. He is a Deputy Sheriff. Part of their instruction included drawing from the holster, with the off hand pushing off of the target and firing. The firearm was nestled in close to the body without the aid of the sights. He said he could feel the slide as it hit his bullet proof vest!

That is MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH MUCH closer than 50 yards!

My definition:
Target loads: cheap plinking ammo.
Match loads, most accurate I can make them.

"Target Load" came from the United States Revolver Assoc. and what was called bullseye shooting for decades. this was with a HAND gun not HANDS gun. one hand hold. this eventually was 270 rds, taking six hours to shoot. the need for a lighter load should be obvious . the same target is used today , from 1886 USRA target. try a few rds of 44mag one hand at 25 and 50 yards, then imagine 270 rds of that trying to hit tens and x's. yes, I know the 1886 target had not the x, but they only shot 30 rds then with blackpowder much of the time indoors. see Himmelwright and Pistol Shooters Treasury for more info. ( the old guys just perked up at the mention of those titles)

my target loads are the ones I take to the range and shoot all day. They are not for competition and they are not the same loads I use for hunting. They are fairly accurate but a bit on the milder side for the benefit of the gun and my hands/shoulder. They generally use less expensive components for economic reasons(i.e. I usually get twice as many rounds outta a pound of Unique than H110/Lil' Gun in my handguns/leverguns), and I use my older brass. At thirty yards, the bowlin' pins don't know the difference.

Sgt Preston here. My target loads are loads which consistently print where I expect them to appear & are comfortable enough for me to shoot all day. These typically are mid weight projectiles (38 Special=158 grain, 9mm=124 grain,45ACP=200 grain) & mid range powder loads. I'm only interested in shooting at paper targets that are typically 10-25 yards away. Accurate, comfortable & fun to shoot. They are not bench rest loads. Hope this helps. Sgt Preston USMC LLA

__________________
NRA Life Member

My 'target load' for the SW 66 is 4.7 grains of Unique; the bullet is a lead SWC. When you see a JHP or JL in my shell, it's a hot load. Lead, Unique and S&W seem to go together. :-) Similarly with my SW 625, lead SWC or RNFP, and 6.4 to 7.0 grains of Unique depending if I shooting 200 grains or 250 grains. 8 grains of Unique for the JHP or JL bullets. Reminds me to go load some more for the Bullets N' Brats.

Yes, you can come up with a JHP load for .38 or .44 which is very accurate. But you can do it also with wadcutters and incur much less recoil and fatique and more repeated accuracy for that reason. Most of the competitive venues shoot within an timed period. Recoil is not your friend there. If you have any doubts buy yourself some Winchester 148 or 158 grain match wadcutters for your 686 and shoot them at 50 or 75 feet, common competitive distances. You will see their appeal. With some persistence you'll be able to load for that accuracy yourself.

Like Sgt Preston, to me, a target load, regardless of caliber, is one that will hit where I intend it to and that I can shoot a lot, in terms of both comfort AND cost.
I shoot at paper mostly, occasionally bowling pins. Distance from 15 to 25 meters.
Loads that fit my bill are .22 LR, .38Spl (non +P) and 9mm. No magnums.
(I shoot.44 Spl, 44-40 & .45 Colt as well, but those are more expensive)

Everyone's comments on "target loads" have been instructional and interesting. I couldn't agree more that each of us has their own definition of what constitutes a "target load". I am going to make a possibly controversial statement though that a jhp (at least XTP's), will most always shoot more accurate than a lead bullet at any distance, regardless of the powder or load. That has been my experience after a lot of rounds, both 50 ft indoors and 25, 50 and 100 yds outdoors.

I will post this absurd? statement on a new thread, so please comment on my findings there.

__________________
686 & 629

We stand on the shoulders of the past. I for one do not like changing terminology as it makes communication difficult especially when speaking with folks of age and experience who might know etymology. in 1930 .38 S&W spl target load(factory) was 750 to 805 fps and usually a wadcutter(flat headed, blunt, flat pointed). four names for the same bullet ! how do we communicate ? other terms were... standard load, midrange (slower than target) super-police, gallery, small game, etc. this was factory ammo 650 fps to 860. super-police was 200g , 4.0 Infallible(unique), spherical point 745 fps. standard loads were RN (conoidal) rnfp was (flattened point) Colt Special. midrange were 650-675 fps ,wadcutters. the 38 spl dominated "TARGET" shooting until the 44 spl took over the 38 displacing the 44 Russian. Target loads were loads fired at TARGETS ,seriously, precision shooting. we also called this years ago, "paper punching" but now people ,new to shooting, using a plastic gun , shooting at five yards use this term !!! we should have protected our terms !much of Target shooting in the past was at fifty yards, one hand. see Himmelwright, Frazer,etc.