Just bought a 1# can of Win 296...at a very reasonable price...while looking for load data then found this dit:- http://findarticles.com/p/arti...s_10_50/ai_n6180926/
Same as H110?...Are the two powders really the same?
Already have a 1# of H110 and don't load that much 357 (or 44 Mag) these days.
Also, is it advisable not to down-load Win 296 - as per H110 i.e. -3% warning?
Should have read the can...Looks like I'll be reloading a few .410s...

DCC

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DCCUK

Yes, really.
Loads must be used as listed here:
http://data.hodgdon.com/cartridge_load.asp

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Science plus Art

Yes,W296 and H110 are the same powder.Any doubts can be cleared up by contacting either Winchester or Hodgdon.They will verify it.

About downloading,H110/W296 requires most of the air space to be filled as well as a high(for handguns)pressure to perform properly.Reducing the charge too much can result in erratic pressure and velocity as well as the possibility of a blooper round.

Data will vary between sources about what max really is but a bit of common sense can keep you on track.It's an excellent powder but some get into problems with it because they try to make it "versatile" by downloading.

Yep , several Hodgdon and Winchester powders are the same. H-110/W-296 , HP-38/W-231 , W-760/H-414 , etc.

St. Marks Powder Co , owned by ATK/Alliant , (formerly owned by Olin) makes most of the ball powders in the USA. They sell it to Hodgdon and Winchester. Any data differences are to to different testing methods , equipment , or normal lot-to-lot variations.

Yes, they are the same. Check the link above to the Hodgdon Load Data Site and you will see the charges for each are exactly the same as is the pressure and velocity produced. then look at the back of each bottle and you will see they are both produced in the same plant.

I personally verified W231=HP-38 and W296=H110 by email to Hodgdon/ IMR /Winchester.

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Freedom is never free!!
SWCA #3437

I've been reloading since 1964 and you fellows taught me something I did not know.

Thanks,

Bill

Thanks - Once again "The Forum" comes up with the info...
BTW - just flicked thru the Hodgdon "Basic" manual and found some "rifle" rounds that use H110:-
22 Hornet, 30 Carbine & 32-40...none of which I own...
anyone ever tried either powder in .223 Rem?

DCC

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DCCUK

General Dynamics NOT ATK owns St. Mark's Powder.
They are two distinct corporate entities.

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John
NRA Endowment

well i got me sum 296 today and its still same as ever

This is funny! Some 20 years ago when the debate about H-110/296 started I took steps to determine the truth. I called Winchester and was referred to St. Marks Powders since, I was told by the Winchester Rep. that they were the manufacturer.

Called St. Marks and spoke with one of their engineers. He was somewhat hesitant, but finally told me that H-110 and 296 are identical, and shipments to both Winchester and Hodgdon at times would come from the same manufacturing lot!

Until sometime in the last year, whenever someone asked this question, and I would post this same response, there was always someone who would argue that this wasn't possible. Sometimes they would say they got better accuracy, lower extreme spreads or standard deviation, higher velocity, etc. with one or the other. That the differences were great enough the two powders couldn't be the same!!!!

Now it seems everyone knows they are identical. Just sayin'.

Some might find this interesting: Commercial Powder Applications - General Dynamics Ordnance and Tactical Systems

Or this picture from the St Marks web site:

Attached Images

commercialpowder.jpg (41.4 KB, 111 views)

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Gunsmithing since 1961

Hodgdon owns three brands now. Hodgdon, IMR and Winchester. People asked why he doesn't consolidate names but he says that because of brand loyalty, people want h110 and won't touch that 296 stuff.

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"He was kinda funny lookin'"

And HS-6 = 540, HS-7 = 571

I guess it works both ways

One of my favorite haunts had both H110 and W296 in stock this week. I don't use this powder terribly often, but tend to use a lot of it when I do get it out(at ~15-25gr depending on the cartridge I'm loading, it goes fast) so took that opportunity to buy a can. If both are available and are the same price(which they were at this shop), I always buy 296 over H110. I have no particular reason on than that I like the Winchester can art a little bit better.

If one is cheaper(sometimes H110 is $1-2 per pound cheaper, although I haven't noticed this recently) I'll buy the cheaper one.

And, if only one is in stock, needless to say I'll buy the one in stock!

Incidentally, I've never used W231/HP38 but will buy the next can of either powder I see on the shelf!

And, just to add to others' comments here, when I've spoken with Hodgdon on the phone, the folks I've talked to have referred to H110 and 296 interchangeably. That's enough confirmation for me that they are in fact the same powder.

Not nearly the same, not interchangeable, not comparable, they ARE the same!

And we brought back an over 5 year old thread because?

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Freedom is never free!!
SWCA #3437

Yes they are the same but I prefer HP-38. Why you might ask, because HP-38 just sounds cooler than Win-231. The fact that HP-38 can be had for a bit less for some odd reason just might have something to do with it as well.

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Stay safe people!

Because some folks resurrect these old things, and most posters don't look at the dates.

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No good deed goes unpunished.

and also because that is what we do.pass the time posting and yapping about all things that boom until we get the chance to do it fo real!

I didn't know about the HS-6 and 540 thing. I was using HS-6 in my 357 and 540 in m y 20 gauge.

David

I have known about the 296/110 thing for years, but have never gotten a good
answer regarding IMR 4227 and H-4227 or IMR 4198 and H-4198.
The latter 2 almost always have somewhat different recipes.
Does anyone know if the 4227's or 4198's are the same?

Now my interest in H-4227 is somewhat academic as I have a dozen pounds of IMR 4227.
But... I do have both kinds of 4198 in fresh canisters. They are both listed as made in Australia.
I happen to be making up some loads with the Beartooth 280 gr WFNGC in 444.
I will make some with each powder and report back the results.
Might be a couple of weeks but this thread seems to be patient

+++
Nemo

I guess we could have started a new thread about an old subject.

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"He was kinda funny lookin'"

Well without even shooting them, I can pretty much tell you IMR and H-4198 are NOT identical powders.
How can I tell?
They look very different.
IMR is black and I think the kernels are bigger and stronger.
H-4198 is grey with a possible green tinge. The kernels are smaller and cut much more easily in the measure.
H-4198 is also now listed as one of their "Extreme" powders.
At the very least the coatings are different.
If I find a good load or 2 I will be using the H-4198 and abandoning IMR-4198.
It doesn't meter worth a darn.
I end up dribbling loads with stick powder, but H-4198 cuts the easiest of those I have tried so far.

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Nemo

In the same video he emphatically stated that H4895 and IMR4895 were NOT the same powder. They are similar but each has it's own loadiing data. Even if the charge weight shown in the books is the same between the two, they AREN'T the same powder.

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"He was kinda funny lookin'"

Well dang.
I watched the whole video and he answered the other part of my question.
H4227 and IMR4227 were so close that they dropped the H version.

This forum is one of the greatest collections of shooting knowledge in the universe.

Thanks all.

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Nemo