I don't know if I should be posting this on a S&W forum but here goes anyway. I use Unique exclusively for my 38 and 357 loads with my S&W revolvers under a 158 gr lswc and get good results with it. I just recently bought a Marlin Model 1894 made in 1979. Is Unique a bad choice for this rifle? If not what should I be using? Haven't been to the range with it yet, plan on going out next Tuesday. I load light for my revolvers, 5.5 and 6.0 grains of Unique. Any and all recommendations will be appreciated. I've also heard that lead bullets and the Marlin Micro-groove don't go well together.

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USN 1959 - 1981

stang,

For most purposes Unique if absolutely appropriate in .357 Magnum regardless of what you are shooting it in. If you are going to hunt Deer you may want more velocity than Unique will safely give. So far as loads, use the same data as for revolver. As a matter of fact, many manuals will show slightly lighter data for rifles strictly to avoid extraction problems, but rarely will revolver data actually cause a problem in a rifle.

Lead and Micro-Groove barrels go together just fine provided the bullets are hard enough, lubricated properly and sized correctly for the particular barrel. If you purchase bullets use a company which gives you the option of selecting your sizing diameter, such as Beartooth Bullets. Theirs will shoot just fine. What you need to avoid "Generically sized" bullets of unknown hardness, particularly Hornady and Speer lead bullets.

Slug your barrel and then order bullets at least .001 larger, preferably .002. Don't use a Lee Carbide Factory Crimp die with bullets larger than .357 as it will size the bullets inside the case and defeat the purpose of buying larger ones. Same goes if you are going to cast your own, hard alloy, at least wheel weight plus 2% Tin, and size .001-.002 over bore diameter and everything will work fine.

I'm using .358 bullets from a forum member with an advertised BHN of 12. I use the Lee carbide die set in my turret press and I didn't know about the Lee crimp die, are you saying that it will resize the .358 bullets down to .357 when I crimp in the cannelure? I thought it just resized the case.

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USN 1959 - 1981

Stang68, in the bad old days, when we were seeking reliability of chambering over all else, we would run the loaded rounds back through a sizing die after seating and crimping. By sizing the case, we squeezed the bullet down in diameter. We knew we were doing this, but we were looking for reliability in chambering and extraction.
Lee's slogan is, "For ammunition that must work". With their factory crimping die, they have combined the crimping die and the sizing die. (And a heck of a crimping die it is! Better than anything else).
If you are looking for anything other than 100% functionality, such as using a larger bullet to better fit your chamber/bore/other needs, you should not use the Lee factory crimping die.
Everything in reloading is a compromise. No one says that the ammunition produced by the dies of other companies won't work in your gun. Lee is putting forth that the ammunition will work (fit) in every gun.
As usual, I'm as clear as mud, and I've used up about two weeks' worth of bandwith.

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and what his trumpet saith

From experience with Marlin rifles:

Lead at higher velocities and their micro groove rifling is not a good combination, period.

Their later rifles came out with a Ballard type of rifling for a reason, cowboy action shooters were having problems. They use lead bullets exclusively.

In my 44mag rifle that was micro grooved I had serious problems with accuracy and lead. Shooting jacketed solved this plus I could get the velocity up to where I wanted it. I had some 180gr ground hog loads that left that carbine at 2000fps with the 240gr bullets at 1850fps!.

I have parted with that rifle but have others now with the Ballard type rifling and have great success with my own cast bullets. Currently my wife has one chambered in 357mag, I have two in 44mag.

Because the 357mag load is for her I don't push the envelope much. With a 160gr H&G #290BB bullet and a dose of SR4756 I get 1280fps from a 6" M586 and 1580fps from the rifle. Very accurate and controllable. She is going to take it on our next hog hunt as a matter of fact!

If you want to eek out all of the velocity that you can from the micro groove rifle I would suggest jacketed bullets and any one of the slower powders for a combination. 2400, AA#9, H110/W296, Longshot or Lil' Gun and a 158gr bullet is going to give you a real nice performance enhancement over what these loads will give form any handgun.

Hope this helps!

p.s. I would like to hear what your Unique loads do from the rifle as compared to your handgun. It would be interesting information for all those folks that load for both!

For what it's worth:

357 Mag, CCI550 Primer, 6.9 Gr. Unique, 158 Gr. HDY XTP JHP
- S&W M19 with 2 1/2" Barrel- Avg velocity 967 fps
- Rossi Lever Action rifle with 20" barrel- Avg velocity 1311 fps

-Remington Factory 158 gr. JHP averaged 1696 fps out of the Rossi with 20" barrel

My nephew bought a Rossi L/A rifle a few months back. When he brought it over we were trying different loads through it and I had a few of this load still on the shelf from a previous loading project. The alliant website indicates a load of 6.0 gr. of Unique for 158 gr. LSWC using a CCI500 primer. If you look at some load manuals there are some hotter Unique loads listed for that bullet. Good luck and be safe.

BTW- +1 on the Lee Factory Crimp Die resizing lead bullets. I figured that out the hard way. Cleaning heavily leaded barrels sucks.

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Andy

Thanks to all for the info and recommendations. After I turned off the computer last night and was getting ready for bed, my brain finally engaged and I realized that the part of the lead bullet that is in the case IS getting re-sized in the FCD. Sorry for my initial doubts. I'll just blame it on being tired from 2 days at a Ford dealership getting a 2010 Fusion for the wife. I get a new gun, she gets a new car.

This thread has been very enlightening for me. I just started reloading in 2007 and the members of this forum have always come through for me with my questions. I guess now I have to learn how to adjust the seating die for crimping and correct seating depth for the XTP bullets.

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USN 1959 - 1981

stang68...........my favorite reduced load for my .357 lever is 7.2 grains of Unique under a bulk 158grn. remmie JHP. Very accurate, pleasant to shoot and it don't break the bank. I save the XTPs for hunting.

Thanks Buck, I'll look for them. Also, I found what I was looking for regarding crimping with the seating die for oversized bullets on pg. 75 of Modern Reloading 2nd edition so I'm good to go with the excellent info and recommendations you fine gents have given. Have a great Holiday!

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USN 1959 - 1981