Among the modern reloading writers, Rick was about the best. He was with Shooting Times for many years, then suddenly disappeared, with no mention made in that magazine.

Does anyone know of his whereabouts? I would love it if a book could be published, consisting of reprints of his articles of the last 10-20 years. There could be some problems of who owns the copyrights, he or the magazine.

He used the highest technology equipment, such as Oehler pressure testers, chronographs, high magnification borescopes, etc. He debunked many myths about max pressure indications, etc.

Where are you, Rick???
Alan Dash

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Al&Ash

Among the modern reloading writers, Rick was about the best. He was with Shooting Times for many years, then suddenly disappeared, with no mention made in that magazine.

Does anyone know of his whereabouts? I would love it if a book could be published, consisting of reprints of his articles of the last 10-20 years. There could be some problems of who owns the copyrights, he or the magazine.

He used the highest technology equipment, such as Oehler pressure testers, chronographs, high magnification borescopes, etc. He debunked many myths about max pressure indications, etc.

Where are you, Rick???
Alan Dash

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Al&Ash

Word is that he crapped in his rice bowl by suing the various gun companies for royalties over the "short mags." and "super short" cartridges. With all the Gun companies pissed at him there were not many shooting magazines wanting him on their staff. Advertisers tend not to spend money with them.

Just Google "Rick Jamison" and you will find a ton of discussion on this topic.

With any luck, rotting in a little corner of his personal Hell, that he made all by himself.

RWT

Yea, how dare he try to protect his intellectual property? Just who does he think he is anyway? (/s off)

The concensus is that he should have never gotten the patent, since it wasn't an original idea. The patent office apparently gives patents too freely without enough research.

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To be a rock and not to roll

But he DID have a patent, correct? Legally granted by the US Patent Office?

We can debate endlessly whether or not the patent "should" have been granted. None of us (as far as I know) has the power to change that decision. But I do know that if you don't defend your patent against infringements, then it becomes worthless.

I don't have a dog in this fight, but I do believe in intellectual property rights. Especially when an individual is going up against a large corporation.

And when a corporation can have an individual "black-listed" from their profession, that's just plain wrong.

+1

+1

Kinda funny in that light how he went after mom and pop custom gunsmiths chambering WSMs but not Remington for the RSAUMs. Seems more of a personal thing than a legal one.

I'm out of the loop with the whole situation. How did it end up?

FN in MT

I liked him because he took a scientific view of things and did a lot of experiments to determine the end results. That had to cost him a lot of money out of his own pocket.

41

Apparently I'm an old fart. The Short Mags and Jamisons cases based on the Jeffery and Rigby cases were nothing new.

Read the PO Ackley books. There is very very little NEW in reloading. The only reason they worked different or offered anything new this time around was that there were powders avaialable that hadn't origanaly existed when first designed.

THe 25-06 was wildcatted about 20 minutes after the 30-06 was introduced. It just didn't work all that well as a overbore case till the advent of the slow burning powders. There was a point in time when IMR 3031 was "slow"

Rick owned a Oehler chronograph with the strain gauge. Writing about guns and reloading was his job and thse would seem to be just work materials to me. My excuse for owning the same equipment is that I'm a tinkerer. Yes, he took a slightly more scientific approach than Elmer or Jack.

What the heck did he think was going to happen when he attacked the industry that was resposable for him being employed? Certainly he has the right to protect/enforce his rights.

By the same token doesn't Winchester, Remington etc have the right to decide who they want to spend their advertising dollars with?

RWT

The patent gives Jamison legal standing. The problematic issue is patent infringement. Can the patent holder prove infringement and if so the patent holder must have deep pockets to absorb the legal fees associated with litigation. This is especially true of an individual versus a corporate entity.

One may say and rightfully so that as examples Remington & Winchester may spend their advertising dollars where they see fit. By doing so they in effect deprived Jamison of his firearms writing career. The message was certainly clear to his employer or perspective employer.

Who is perceived to be right or wrong in this issue? From the replies so far it’s dependent on ones view point. Having patents issued in the United States and South Africa I see it some what differently than others.

As always let us simply agree to disagree and maintain a semblance cordiality.

Those that think any patent obtained, or all court decisions fair and just, have you at least read the patent?

http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Se...amison&RS=IN/jamison


I don't know when the Lazzaroni Patriot was released, but it appears nearly identical to the 300 Short Mag.

http://www.lazzeroni.com/ct_reload_patriot.htm

http://www.gunsandammomag.com/cs/Satellite/IMO_GA/Story...chester+Short+Magnum

Here is a Chuck Hawks article about the lawsuit saying the Lazzaroni cartridge precedes the WSM:

http://www.chuckhawks.com/column18_d...rt_magnums.htm

Her is an article on the Lazzaroni cartridges that were being shot in 2001:

http://www.lazzeroni.com/pdf/6723_eprint.pdf

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To be a rock and not to roll

The nettlesome aspect is Jamison was issued a patent by the United States Patent Office. Right wrong or indifferent the patent was issued so therefore has standing until disputed otherwise. That point can’t be ignored.

You are absolutely correct. That can't be ignored.

But what also can't be ignored is that for the hundred previous years, people who named new cartridges, which after all are nothing more than a set of dimensions with absolutely no new technology involved, didn't expect to be able to reach into the pocket of everyone chambering their baby.

Maybe he convinced himself that he was special, but the logic is apparently lost on a lot of others, myself included.

He felt wronged because he took his idea to Winchester, they said no thanks, they brought out WSMs instead of JSMs. I have no idea if Winchester was working on the idea independently or not, and don't really care.

Maybe they screwed him, maybe they didn't. I'm not saying Winchester is without blame in all this. But what did he think was going to happen when he sued?

Sure, he had a LEGAL right to do so. Whether he had any MORAL right to do so is where the disagreements on this issue arise.

Maybe J.D. Jones used a different process to "invent" a cartridge from an existing case?

While it's true there have been others, like the .284, with a rebated rim, it does seem there's the rebated rim situation in the WSMs that may have actually involved more than resizing and may constitute "invention" with a subsequent patent being issued.

This is why we have patent attorneys...

My final thoughts on this subject if one questions ethics/ethical behavior then the same scrutiny applies to Jamison, Winchester, and Jamison’s employer of the firearms trade. That approach would be fair, balanced, and impartial.

Absolutely agree. Ackley and others were poking around with "short magnums" for some time but only lacked the ultra-slow powders to do it.


"You don't bite the hand that feeds you."

Noah

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Nicht mehr als 30 Zeichen

That's the problem when you feel strongly about something. You can fall on your saber, but you can only do it once...

While I cannot really comment on who is in the right here, I can comment on patents.

Right now I am in a prolific period for me of invention and my company is supporting me by recognizing the patent and patent-ability of my inventions. Last time I checked, I have 1 patent granted, 21 into the patent office for review, 5 new inventions that are to be written up for patents and 2 new invention ideas submitted to legal for a review of patent-ability.

I bring all of this up because we now have folks that are starting to recognize our ideas and using them. I am kind of irked that they basically just took my invention and used it with no comments or even a thanks to me. So we met with legal on friday and we go to higher legal on monday. I expect that by friday someone will be getting some legal 'nasty-grams".

For this reason I can actually sympothise with Jamison. When you have that nice plaque on the wall from the patent office and you see others using your patent with no recognition, then it just irritates you.

I can see why and how come he did it.

The question is will the patent hold or will it be revoked. Obviously Winchester and others believed it would hold or it might hold and decided to pay off.

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SWCA 1646

Besides the prior art issue, it appears there is a difference between normal proprietory cartridges and Jamison's patent. Most proprietory cartridges have a specific set of dimensions.

Jamison's patent seems to rely on cartridge ratios which covers a lot of ground. This also makes his patent appear not to be an original idea.

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To be a rock and not to roll

If I may ask, He has gained what out of this, other than his own unemployment?

The details of the settlement between Jamison and Winchester aren't public. It may be that he didn't get a bunch of money, just an implication that his patent is sound.

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To be a rock and not to roll

Jam is on didn't invent anything - not a concept nor a cartridge case. But he did do a good job of getting a very general patent in for what may people have been doing for years - wildcatting onto short fat cases. He is to be admired in the same manner as Johnnie Cochran is for getting OJ off. (The patent office is the jury).

His next 6 of 7 patents are all along the same lines - patents on cartridge types, short/very short, and guns that go with them. This puts Jam is on into another category - part weasel, mostly used butt wipe and part lawyer. Grabbing at all things shorter and fatter than a 30-06, mine all mine I say. What the heck is he thinking? "I don't need friends in the shooting community when I have money"? Here is where the settlement money went too - further shafting other people. Word up the patent sufficiently and hey, you owe me money, I invented the internet.

Short fat cases have been more popular to develop since the internal ballistics of the .22 and 6mm PPC were understood. As one of very many wildcatters who looked at and built on short fat cases, I really despise his actions and question his motivations. (not really > $$ + big head). He has done nothing in the interests of the general shooter since his first patent.

Fortunately it does not affect my aim when shooting a short-action rifle using a old wildcat that probably fits within one of Jam is on's well crafted patents. It actually makes it more satisfying.

Oh, and hello S&W forum members

Cheers
358 Daniels

I kinda get a kick out of Ruger who said, "Well the heck with you then, we won't chamber Winchester Short Magnum cartridges. Rather than pay you royalties, we'll just make our own short cartridges based on our own (and Hornady's) .375 Ruger and we will call them Ruger Compact Magnums." They are a big enough outfit to make enough guns that an ammunition company can chamber for their cartridges and make money.

One of his books, the Rifleman's Handbook is still available. While not a reprint of his articles, it is an excellent book that covers a wide variety of rifle related topics. I got mine through Amazon. Highly recommended.

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