Smith & Wesson Forum

Go Back   Smith & Wesson Forum > Ammunition-Gunsmithing > Reloading
o

Notices

Reloading All Reloading Topics Go Here


Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 02-08-2009, 05:36 AM
Col Defender's Avatar
Col Defender Col Defender is offline
Member
.38 S&W Reloading Data - Help Please .38 S&W Reloading Data - Help Please  
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Northwest Missouri
Posts: 185
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Default

In another thread I started a few days ago, you guys helped me by clarifying that .38 Special and .38 S&W are not the same. Thanks!

Since then I have found that Midway sells dies and brass for .38 S&W but none of my reloading manuals has data for this cartridge.

Anybody have recipes - just for plinking/practice with an oldie.

Thanks in advance.

Steve
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 02-08-2009, 05:36 AM
Col Defender's Avatar
Col Defender Col Defender is offline
Member
.38 S&W Reloading Data - Help Please .38 S&W Reloading Data - Help Please  
Join Date: Dec 2008
Location: Northwest Missouri
Posts: 185
Likes: 0
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Default

In another thread I started a few days ago, you guys helped me by clarifying that .38 Special and .38 S&W are not the same. Thanks!

Since then I have found that Midway sells dies and brass for .38 S&W but none of my reloading manuals has data for this cartridge.

Anybody have recipes - just for plinking/practice with an oldie.

Thanks in advance.

Steve
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 02-08-2009, 05:46 AM
jrplourde's Avatar
jrplourde jrplourde is offline
Member
.38 S&W Reloading Data - Help Please .38 S&W Reloading Data - Help Please .38 S&W Reloading Data - Help Please .38 S&W Reloading Data - Help Please .38 S&W Reloading Data - Help Please  
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Greenfield, NH
Posts: 172
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

Hi Col, Hodgdon site as two listings on 38 S&W

http://data.hodgdon.com/cartridge_load.asp

The Lyman manual has listings for three bullet wts and some of the standard powders.
For a 150 gr lead

Bullseye 2.1 gr 661 f/s 10,000 2.4 723 12700
231 2.1 588 8600 2.4 692 11800

Also listed N310, Titegroup, 700X, SR7635, True Blue

If I can help further let me know.

Bob
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 02-08-2009, 05:58 AM
Calaveras Slim Calaveras Slim is offline
US Veteran
.38 S&W Reloading Data - Help Please .38 S&W Reloading Data - Help Please .38 S&W Reloading Data - Help Please .38 S&W Reloading Data - Help Please .38 S&W Reloading Data - Help Please  
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: San Antonio de Bexar
Posts: 1,166
Likes: 618
Liked 1,127 Times in 373 Posts
Default

Speer #14 has several also.

Should you decide to go with the 158gr RN, Midwayusa.com sells the Magtech and it has a hollow base that fills up the barrel quite nicely
__________________
Slim, U.S. Army, Ret.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 02-08-2009, 06:27 AM
canoeguy canoeguy is offline
US Veteran
.38 S&W Reloading Data - Help Please .38 S&W Reloading Data - Help Please .38 S&W Reloading Data - Help Please .38 S&W Reloading Data - Help Please .38 S&W Reloading Data - Help Please  
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Far Southwest Virginia
Posts: 1,620
Likes: 512
Liked 3,783 Times in 474 Posts
Default

My favorite all purpose .38 S&W load is 3.1 grains Unique behind a 158 grain LSWC bullet. Shoots to point of aim in my Victory Models and a Colt Police Positive.

What sort of revolver are you loading for? If it is an old top break revolver, I'd back down the powder charge some.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 02-08-2009, 07:46 AM
jbouwens's Avatar
jbouwens jbouwens is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: Georgia
Posts: 470
Likes: 1
Liked 14 Times in 9 Posts
Default

I use 2.4 grains of Win 231 under a 158 RNL bullet for my victory models. This load produces 500 f.p.s. on my chrono.

I use 2.1 grains for my top-break.
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 02-08-2009, 10:57 AM
terrier's Avatar
terrier terrier is offline
Member
.38 S&W Reloading Data - Help Please .38 S&W Reloading Data - Help Please .38 S&W Reloading Data - Help Please .38 S&W Reloading Data - Help Please .38 S&W Reloading Data - Help Please  
Join Date: Jan 2009
Posts: 63
Likes: 2
Liked 10 Times in 4 Posts
Default

Lot depends on what handgun you have. I have a newer model Terrier in 38 S&W. I shoot the 125 swc lead bullets. My load is 4.0grs of Unique but I would start at 3.0 and watch for pressure. Mine shows no pressure signs but it does what I want so I'm not going above that. If I use the 158gr RN I use not over 3.0 of Unique. Wealth of information and expertiese here. All of us agree:start low and work up slow. This is not a hot rod round anyway.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 02-08-2009, 11:15 AM
ArchAngelCD's Avatar
ArchAngelCD ArchAngelCD is offline
Moderator
SWCA Member
Absent Comrade
.38 S&W Reloading Data - Help Please .38 S&W Reloading Data - Help Please .38 S&W Reloading Data - Help Please .38 S&W Reloading Data - Help Please .38 S&W Reloading Data - Help Please  
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Northeast PA, USA
Posts: 8,877
Likes: 1,029
Liked 5,070 Times in 2,660 Posts
Default

I load a .360" 160gr bullet over a charge of 2.4gr W231 for a very clean and accurate load. I sometimes try to duplicate the old British WWII 38/200 load too.

Be very careful how hot you load any .38 S&W round. Most of the revolvers chambered in that caliber are rather weak and can be damaged but even the slightest over pressure round. *** If your revolver is an old "top break" S&W or similar revolver I would drop that charge down to 2.2gr W231. ***
__________________
Freedom is never free!!
SWCA #3437
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 02-23-2009, 11:57 PM
saskgunowner101 saskgunowner101 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Saskatchewan, Canada
Posts: 18
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

I notice jrplourde mentioned Titegroup powder load data above, does anyone have a clue on rough charges for this cartridge? I have some 124 grain roundnose bullets, a whole bunch of Titegroup, but no load data. It seems to me I've saw mentioned around 1.8-2 grains, but I'm not about to go without a confirmed load. Any thoughts appreciated.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 02-24-2009, 01:28 AM
ArchAngelCD's Avatar
ArchAngelCD ArchAngelCD is offline
Moderator
SWCA Member
Absent Comrade
.38 S&W Reloading Data - Help Please .38 S&W Reloading Data - Help Please .38 S&W Reloading Data - Help Please .38 S&W Reloading Data - Help Please .38 S&W Reloading Data - Help Please  
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Northeast PA, USA
Posts: 8,877
Likes: 1,029
Liked 5,070 Times in 2,660 Posts
Default

Titegroup is a fast burning powder that sits right next to Red Dot and slightly below Bullseye on the relative burn rate chart. I would think using Red Dot data as a starting point to extrapolate loading data would probably the place to look. I'm not telling you to do this, I'm only mentioning what I would probably do.
__________________
Freedom is never free!!
SWCA #3437
Reply With Quote
  #11  
Old 02-24-2009, 02:32 AM
Skip Sackett Skip Sackett is offline
Banned
.38 S&W Reloading Data - Help Please .38 S&W Reloading Data - Help Please .38 S&W Reloading Data - Help Please .38 S&W Reloading Data - Help Please .38 S&W Reloading Data - Help Please  
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Hoosier Land!
Posts: 4,379
Likes: 587
Liked 576 Times in 307 Posts
Default

Quote:
Titegroup
Call or email them. They are very personable and helpful. Ask them for a load.

Lots better to ask the horse's mouth than to get caught with what comes out of the other end!
Reply With Quote
  #12  
Old 02-24-2009, 03:18 AM
Hoptob's Avatar
Hoptob Hoptob is offline
Member
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Pacific NW
Posts: 231
Likes: 6
Liked 90 Times in 17 Posts
Default

There were quite a few .38 S&W loads in Phil Sharpe's "Complete Guide to Handloading" (1937). .38 S&W is supposed to be a weaker caliber but some of Phil's loads are much like .38 Special +P today.



Mike
__________________
9x19, 9x29R, 9x33R, 10x22
Reply With Quote
  #13  
Old 02-24-2009, 10:28 PM
saskgunowner101 saskgunowner101 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Saskatchewan, Canada
Posts: 18
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally posted by smith crazy:
Quote:
Titegroup
Call or email them. They are very personable and helpful. Ask them for a load.

Lots better to ask the horse's mouth than to get caught with what comes out of the other end!
I tried e-mail, then gave them a call. All the guy could tell me were the loads that were on the website, for Win-231 and HP38...nothing for Titegroup.
Reply With Quote
  #14  
Old 02-25-2009, 02:34 AM
Skip Sackett Skip Sackett is offline
Banned
.38 S&W Reloading Data - Help Please .38 S&W Reloading Data - Help Please .38 S&W Reloading Data - Help Please .38 S&W Reloading Data - Help Please .38 S&W Reloading Data - Help Please  
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Hoosier Land!
Posts: 4,379
Likes: 587
Liked 576 Times in 307 Posts
Default

Wow! That is out of character! I have asked several times for loads and gotten them. In fact, I spoke to the one time about the 500Mag. I asked about a TrailBoss load. I was told to mark the case were the base of the bullet would go and fill it up to that point, seat and crimp the bullet and I was good to go! Now remember, that was with TrailBoss and the 500Mag, not the 38S&W!

Sorry for how they treated you, that's odd. I guess I would take a load for the mildest 38spl, reduce it, and see how it goes. You should be able to look at a 38spl load for the bullet you have, see what the load is with Titegroup, trying to compare how much another powder was reduced in the same way and go from there.

What are you going to shoot them in, Sas?
Reply With Quote
  #15  
Old 02-25-2009, 06:34 AM
Skip Sackett Skip Sackett is offline
Banned
.38 S&W Reloading Data - Help Please .38 S&W Reloading Data - Help Please .38 S&W Reloading Data - Help Please .38 S&W Reloading Data - Help Please .38 S&W Reloading Data - Help Please  
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Hoosier Land!
Posts: 4,379
Likes: 587
Liked 576 Times in 307 Posts
Default

OK, I called. It just seemed WAY out of character for Hodgdon to be cantankerous.

I found out why they don't want folks to use Titegroup in the 38S&W. I think they are valid reasons, at least in this litigious society.

Most firearms that are chambered for this cartridge are the older top breaks. Most are not that well made nor are they mechanically sound now. I have an old "American" in the gun safe that was my wife's Great Grandfather's so, I understand their point.

In their estimation, the powder is too fast to be used in said firearms. A little too much and it is possible that parts will be flying around everywhere.

They suggest using something slower and their HP-38/W231 fills that bill.

In my summation of this information, I concur.

I did try to pry out of him some data that could be used in a "swing out" design and he wouldn't budge! (Good training!)

Is that powder available locally? I have used it for years in many different calibers. 9mm to 45ACP.

In fact, one of my mentors in shooting, used to whip my fanny with his favorite load with W231 in a M625.

Think about it.
Reply With Quote
  #16  
Old 02-25-2009, 08:08 PM
saskgunowner101 saskgunowner101 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Saskatchewan, Canada
Posts: 18
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

I told ya they wouldnt give up the goods! The pistol in question is one of those old Enfield tanker pistols(ugly x 10). Just sort of a fun little thing to shoot. I'll look for some bottom end loads for 38 Special, and see if I feel lucky. I'm sure it's around 2 grains Titegroup. Thanks for the input. Much appreciated.
Reply With Quote
  #17  
Old 04-12-2010, 03:43 PM
saskgunowner101 saskgunowner101 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Saskatchewan, Canada
Posts: 18
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

Bringing this thread back from the dead!! I've ended up trying a few different loads since this was posted and am pleased to announce my eyes/fingers are intact.

Using cast bullets from a Lee TL356-124-TC, charges of Titegroup powder between 1.8-2.3 grains worked fine although on the lower end cases were blackened and a few over the chrony read high 390-low 400's fps. Charges of 2.1-2.2 grains Titegroup bounced between 515-560 fps....and shoot low.

I also tried an unknown to me 148 grain cast bullet with 2-2.3 grains Titegroup and these seemed to function the same. No chrony this time.

And finally, I tried the 124 grain bullets again with various charges between 2.5-3 grains Unique. These seem to have a little more zip to them actually seeming to have recoil. So in the end it all turned out fine.

These went through an old Enfield tanker, so I'm not suggesting they are the loads you should use. Just that they worked for me.
Reply With Quote
  #18  
Old 04-14-2010, 05:09 PM
ArchAngelCD's Avatar
ArchAngelCD ArchAngelCD is offline
Moderator
SWCA Member
Absent Comrade
.38 S&W Reloading Data - Help Please .38 S&W Reloading Data - Help Please .38 S&W Reloading Data - Help Please .38 S&W Reloading Data - Help Please .38 S&W Reloading Data - Help Please  
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Northeast PA, USA
Posts: 8,877
Likes: 1,029
Liked 5,070 Times in 2,660 Posts
Default

Did you really go and use Titegroup in the .38 S&W even though the powder manufacturer recommended against it? It's not like there are no suitable powders available for loading that caliber. Like I said above, I for VERY good results using W231/HP-38 and there is a lot of data available for Unique, Herco, Green Dot and a few others. IMO and the opinion of Hodgdon Titegroup is too fast a powder for the .38 S&W especially in older top-break revolvers.
__________________
Freedom is never free!!
SWCA #3437
Reply With Quote
  #19  
Old 05-15-2010, 12:03 PM
saskgunowner101 saskgunowner101 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Saskatchewan, Canada
Posts: 18
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

I try not to play fast and loose with the rules, but figured a little extrapolation would work. Here's a burn rate chart.

Powder Burn Rates

Now, my modern reloading 2nd edition lists A nitro 100, bullseye, and red dot as suitable for the 38 S&W, giving burn rates of #5, #6, and #10. Titegroup is #12 on the list, so is in fact slower than the 3 other powders mentioned.

I also don't think Titegroup is the "ideal" powder for the 38, only that it will work. I think Unique is my choice for this caliber.
Reply With Quote
  #20  
Old 05-16-2010, 03:45 PM
ArchAngelCD's Avatar
ArchAngelCD ArchAngelCD is offline
Moderator
SWCA Member
Absent Comrade
.38 S&W Reloading Data - Help Please .38 S&W Reloading Data - Help Please .38 S&W Reloading Data - Help Please .38 S&W Reloading Data - Help Please .38 S&W Reloading Data - Help Please  
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Northeast PA, USA
Posts: 8,877
Likes: 1,029
Liked 5,070 Times in 2,660 Posts
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by saskgunowner101 View Post
I try not to play fast and loose with the rules, but figured a little extrapolation would work. Here's a burn rate chart.

Powder Burn Rates

Now, my modern reloading 2nd edition lists A nitro 100, bullseye, and red dot as suitable for the 38 S&W, giving burn rates of #5, #6, and #10. Titegroup is #12 on the list, so is in fact slower than the 3 other powders mentioned.

I also don't think Titegroup is the "ideal" powder for the 38, only that it will work. I think Unique is my choice for this caliber.
Powder burn rate isn't the only consideration when using a powder in a certain caliber. If the manufacturer tells me not to use a powder in that caliber because there's a danger of some sort I would stay away from it especially since there are so many other powders available for use in the .38 S&W. Also, powder burn rates are relative to the caliber being loaded. In the .38 S&W Titegroup might burn faster than all the others mentioned above.
__________________
Freedom is never free!!
SWCA #3437
Reply With Quote
  #21  
Old 05-17-2010, 11:15 PM
saskgunowner101 saskgunowner101 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Saskatchewan, Canada
Posts: 18
Likes: 0
Liked 0 Times in 0 Posts
Default

I'm not here to argue with you, but perhaps you can explain to me, all things equal, how a powder with a slower burn rate will magically burn faster than a faster burning powder in the same case. I can't wrap my head around it.

There are loads listed for the 38 short and long colt using Titegroup powder.....so just going on internal case capacity one might suppose nothing was going to go nuclear with what I was doing.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Tags
38spl, 45acp, bullseye, cartridge, colt, crimp, model 625, sig arms, terrier, top-break, victory, wwii

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
Forum Jump

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Reloading Data? Magload Reloading 7 07-20-2016 07:43 PM
Reloading data log Bugkiller99 Reloading 11 06-15-2013 10:50 PM
Hodgdon Reloading Data Center VS Hornady Reloading Handbook gsparesa Reloading 48 02-10-2013 04:50 PM
Reloading data for 45 gap in 625 Beans Reloading 20 09-12-2010 09:27 PM
Reloading data. Always way off? Wheelgunner840 Reloading 25 01-28-2010 04:55 PM

Powered by vBadvanced CMPS v3.2.3
smith-wessonforum.com tested by Norton Internet Security smith-wessonforum.com tested by McAfee Internet Security

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 06:28 AM.


Smith-WessonForum.com is not affiliated with Smith & Wesson Holding Corporation (NASDAQ Global Select: SWHC)