Shoulder injuries (not to mention advancing age) have led me to add a 1911PD because of its lighter weight and easier handling. Now if I make a load to reduce felt recoil, life will be good!

My inventory of reloading supplies is large enough that I don't want to add any more variety. For 45acp, that means I will be reloading the 45acp with Rainier 200gr plated RN bullets and Vita N320 powder. A last resort option could be Old Smokey (Win 231) because I do have some of that on hand.

I was using 5.0 grains of Vita for use in a steel-framed Springfield, which is quite a bit heavier than the PD. That load has acceptable recoil in the Springfield, but is more than I want in the PD.

5.0 gr of this powder is the listed starting weight for this bullet. Does anyone have any experience with a lower powder charge for this bullet/powder combination?

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NRA-USPSA-IDPA-ICORE-GSSF

I used to use 4.5/231 with a cast 200 gr. bullet for target shooting and it was pretty mild. I would bet you will like that load. I always had very good results with it. It always shot as well as my favorite, made with 452-AA, but it never matched 452-AA for uniformity (ES and SD).

I too have loaded 4.5 of "Old Smokey" (231) behind a 200LSWC for some soft accurate shooting.

Since I ride the thumb safety and have big fingers, I can feel my thumb slightly touching the slide and its clunky slow in my Colt S70 but functions every time, even with a standard recoil spring.

I recently loaded 5.0 231 and has a little more pep, but no where as violent as max of 6.1. still decently accurate for free standing shots.

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if you're gonna be a bear...

My basic target load is 4.3 grains 231 with a 185 SWC. Works fine in both of my 1911's. I Chronographed it this week out of a 25-2 6 1/2" and a 625-3 5" and got an average of 709 and 677 fps. This is about as light as I care to go with a .45. I've also used that powder charge with a 200 gr SWC successfully, my Smith autos seem to prefer the 200 grain bullet.

I have to agree W231 will probably give you good results. My standard load is 5.5gr W231 under a 230gr bullet. On the rare occasions I load a 200gr bullet the plinking load is 5.0gr W231. I'm sure 5.0gr W231 under a 200gr plated bullet will be a pleasant load to shoot. Actually, if needed because of your shoulder you could probably go as low as 4.4gr since that's the recommended starting charge for a 200gr LSWC bullet.

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Freedom is never free!!
SWCA #3437

Thanks for the replies. I do notice a preference for 231. I would be willing to go to 231 if that's what it takes - powder seems to be more available now and certainly the least expensive part

However, I am commited to 200gr RN Rainier bullets. I have acquired about 2 years worth unless I change my 1911's to my primary shooter and/or game gun.

Soooo, still looking for some first hand experience with this bullet and hopefully Vita N320.

Thanks a lot guys

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NRA-USPSA-IDPA-ICORE-GSSF

I load 200 grain poly-coated bullets under WST, which is cleaner that 231 and which USED to be about $2/lb. cheaper.

Try 4.5 grains for a light load. I shoot 4.8-5.0 grains, but I'm knocking down large poppers and need to make a minimum 165 PF.

Your physical conditions have exacerbated your need to have a light recoil round. That is understandable but what you may need is a completely different powder than either one you have mentioned.

Not that most folks wont get great performance from those two powders, both are great ones to be sure. Since powder weight plays a factor in felt recoil, the old physics thing, the best thing for you to do is to find a powder that will give you enough power to cycle your firearms with the least weight of it.

Case in point: Bullseye, I have run all the way down to 3.5gr under a 160gr LRNFP in my revolvers and while it sounds funny, pop-----------ding, at 20 yards, it works quite well to help a new shooter deal with the bigger firearms without wrenching their wrists to get them there. You may want to find something like that, maybe move down to VV N310 for example. They have several loads in their data book that would seem to work for you. Hopefully you won't have to change the recoil spring, but you may.

Hope this helps.

I too run 3.5 Bullseye under a 180gr LSWC in a full size 1911, however, I had to run a (15#) lightened recoil spring to accommodate such.

I know that it's not your brand of powder, but the recoil spring is something to consider if you are searching for the load that makes you happy.

I sent for the Wilson set of springs that have about 5 differing weights along with buffers, tool and firing pin springs. IIRC the entire gig was around $30 with shipping.

P/U a recoil spring selector pack (Wolff, Wilson, Brownell's) then run your Bullseye load to your hearts content. If a load feed in your gun, the right spring will allow you to run it. JOMO?

I worked up my accuracy load 20+ years ago at 4.3 Gr. 231 behind a 200 Gr cast SWC. I recently reconfirmed (via ransom rest testing) that it is still my most accurate load in a 1911. It is a mild load, but may require a lighter recoil spring. I use a 12 lb spring with this load in my Gold Cup.

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H Richard
SWCA1967 SWHF244

What works in my guns and is accurate, mild (YMMV) is:
4.2 Clays or WST with 160 g Quality Cast Bullet (not for 50 Yds)
3.6 Clays with Star 185 g LSWCHP (3.9 for 50 yds)
Rockriver Bullseye gun with 14# spring, brass drops on the bench or maybe goes 3 feet. gene

My light 45 ACP target load is 3.8 gr. HS-700X, Rem 2.5, 185 gr. LSWC at ca. 720 fps - very accurate and about as mild as you can get with the 45 ACP.

Skip,
I've been using 3.5 grains of Bullseye under a 200 grain H&G SWC for about 15 years in my mil-spec Springfield 1911 and in my 25-2,it's a real pussycat to shoot and will chew the bullseye out at 25 feet,very mild recoiling round and very accurate out of either platform.
Equalizer

VV lists 5.0 grains of N320 as the minimum charge for a 200 gr. jacketed bullet, but 4.7 grains for a 200 gr. cast bullet. Your plated bullets are really more like cast bullets in terms of hardness.

I currently use 4.8 gr. of N320 under a 185 gr. jacketed bullet in .45 ACP with no problems - it functions in both my S&W 1911PD and my HK Tactical.

The VV data seem to have very narrow ranges between minimum and maximum loads. The only concern is sticking a bullet in the barrel with a very light load. Obviously, any load that works the action will not do this. You could try working down from 4.7 grains and find the lightest load that reliably cycles the action. If you get a no recoil, no muzzle blast round, you need to check the barrel for a stuck bullet.

Well, I mentioned the 160gr LRNFP load above but I have one that is lighter than that one too. Heavier bullet but WAY below book manufacturer's data.

I cast my own H&G #68 LSWC and they run right at 210gr with my alloy. I have used 3.5gr of WST powder under them. I want to caution that these were fired from a M625JM only as these could get stuck in the barrel of a semi-auto. Be careful if you use these load in yours. Load only one round at a time and make sure the slide locks open before doing any rapid fire drills with a full magazine.

Now, the reason I mention this round is to ask this question: "What velocity is a bullet like this a viable self defense round?"

These clocked out of the 4" barrel at an average of 660fps with an ES of 24 and SD of 8.54. Real good numbers. Guess what else these bullets will do at 15 yards? Go all the way through a 2x4! Think about it like this. In your house the interior walls are made from 2x4s and sheet rock. Do you have a room that has the other wall 15 yards away? If not, you have a light target round that could easily inflict bodily damage in the next room! Like where your kids sleep!

I say this because we think "light load" = ineffective load. Not always so dear friends, not always so!

Be careful. Once you pull the trigger, you are responsible where that bullet ends up.

FWIW

People used to go down to 3.2grs of Bullseye in 1911s w/light springs. A spring pack is cheap. I would try VV 320 at 4.7gr following smithcrasy’s recommended safety steps. If that gives you a load you like, stop.

I would expect that the reason you do not see lighter charge weights in VV’s data is that they don’t want to condition them on lighter springs etc. If you carefully follow the necessary precautions to make certain the bullet exits and the action opens you will be ok.

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Ipsis Rebus Dictantitbus

WST is my choice for soft target loads. Run 4.5gr under the 200gr plated & I think you'll find recoil very light, even in the PD. It's also very accurate & clean burning in the 45acp. Should run about 800fps & no need for a spring change.

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NRA Cert. Inst. IDPA CSO

(Old timer's must have slipped in again!)

I was shooting the lighter WST loads from my M625JM and had a particular problem arise. I wanted to mention it and forgot to in my last post.

I came to the end of the 150 rounds that I was shooting and had less than a full moon clip left so I thought I would just load them without using the clip at all.

In this M625JM I have installed a C&S extended firing pin. When I first got it I had some failure to fires in it. I was using Winchester primers in all of my ammo those days. After reading that a JM spring kit from Midway would require using Federal primers, I switched and all of the FTFs stopped.

At any rate, that's the history on the firearm, yours may not experience the problem I describe, mine did.

I loaded one round that was a 3.5gr WST and "let fly". When I went to open the cylinder, I found I couldn't! It was stuck shut. It seems that the round was so light that the primer captured the firing pin when it was extended! I don't know if the cause was that I didn't use the full moon clips with these extremely light loads or what. I can tell you this, the other 49 didn't have this problem at all. Even the other one that I loaded singly!

Just thought I would share that. It could be that too light of a load in a firearm that has been modified may cause a problem in this area. It may not be that at all. Just thought I would share it just the same.

I have used a 200 gr LSWC with 3.6-4.2 grains of Clays very successfully. I have sort of standardized on 3.8 as my "go-to" load. Accurate, very soft recoiling. and very clean burning. The 3.6 load will cycle my Kimber Pro Carry, which has a pretty stout recoil spring, but YMMV. Over on the Brian Enos forum, Clays is very popular for competition use. Beware of exceeding published loads with Clays. It's pressure spikes rapidly once max loads are reached. If you stay in the stated range, you'll likely be very happy with the results.

When you get down into very light loads as used for 25 yard or 50 foot bullseye shooting, the Ball powders get a little erratic. I like the way 231 and WST meter, but Bullseye, Solo 1000, and Clays give more uniform velocities in the 3.5-4 grain range.
I have not put a gun in the Ransom Rest to see if it matters on paper, though.

Haven't tried a lot of other powders in those low volumes, but I have found Clays to meter very accurately in my Dillon 550. Less than a .1 variation.

This is the main reason that Clays should NEVER be used in a firearm where a KB is possible. The data that you use on this powder too had better not be from a manual. It should only be used from Hodgdon's data. The 40S&W should not be loaded with this powder and especially when loaded in something with an unsupported chamber.

Case in point: Several of us have had KBs with Clays in Browning High Powers chambered in 40S&W. The data I used was from a reputable and current at the time, manual, the Lyman #47. It states that with a 175gr LTC(if memory serves me right)you can use 3.9gr as a maximum load with Clays. At the time, the Hodgdon data(from their annually printed manual) said that 3.5gr was a maximum load. Well, at the time I used the Lyman exclusively. It wasn't until after the KB that I called Hodgdon and found out the error. The technician mentioned that he had referred folks to the Lyman many times, he would rethink that action from then on!

Clays is a good powder for revolver and low pressure semi-auto rounds, like the 45ACP. Just don't use it to build any +P rounds as the results may be catastrophic! IMHO anyway!

I gave Clays a try in some .38 Special target loads. Because I was using a very light charge (2.5gr w/148gr DEWC) the results were a round that was a little smokey. Actually, there was more than a little smoke so I decided it wasn't worth it especially since Clays doesn't meter well at all with that light a charge.

Now I have a jar and a half or Clays with no use in sight... lol

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Freedom is never free!!
SWCA #3437

There have been lots of good suggestions, but since I have so much inventory of VV N320 and 200gr RN plated bullets, I think I will give the 4.7 grains of N320 a try.

This will be in a 1911PD - any advice on what weight recoil spring to use? Also, I would like opinions on a straight weight spring vs a variable since I have no experience with a variable weight spring

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NRA-USPSA-IDPA-ICORE-GSSF

As I mentioned, I'm using 4.8 grains of VV N320 under a 185 gr. jacketed bullet with brisk functioning in a 1911PD. The recoil spring is stock and the gun is unaltered.

I recently loaded some 4.6gr W231 with 230gr LRN.
Cycled the slide well. Pretty mild.

The rule of thumb is to use the highest rate spring that will allow the slide to cycle. In other words, hypothetically if a 14# and a 16# spring will both let the gun run with a certain load, the heavier of the two springs is the one to use to avoid frame batter.