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Old 08-07-2009, 09:40 PM
rustypigeon rustypigeon is offline
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Default Slow vs Fast powder- gun wear

Assuming bullet weight and velocity are the same, does the powder speed affect gun wear to any degree?

I have found a couple nice target loads in my 357 mag for 158 grain bullets. One load using W231 and another using 2400. Since the accuracy and bullet velocity is about the same for the two different loads, I would like to stick with the load that is easier on the gun.

What do you think is less wear? A 158 grain bullet going just under 1000 fps. One being pushed by 6.5 grains of W231, the other being pushed by 13.5 grains of 2400.
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Old 08-07-2009, 11:56 PM
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Erich Erich is offline
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I've only been handloading for a bit over 20 years . . . maybe I could tell you in another hundred or so.
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Old 08-08-2009, 12:49 AM
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That's a new question, and I am not sure I know the answer. However, I guess it would depend on which (if either) load produces the least pressure assuming there is any difference. Guess that clears it right up!

I am sure somebody will be along soon who actually knows the answer.
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Old 08-08-2009, 07:07 AM
GF1 GF1 is offline
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35+ years at this...angels dancing on head of pin here.
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Old 08-08-2009, 08:44 AM
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Faster-burning propellants generate higher temperatures and higher pressures, Also increase the wear of the gun barrel.

Ken
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Old 08-08-2009, 09:34 AM
Calaveras Slim Calaveras Slim is offline
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I'm not sure if I totallly agree with Aussie but he may be right. I would suspect that if those loads are within specs, you won't have a problem in all your life of shooting.

O have used 2400 over the years and preferr IMR 4227 but that's me.

However, I am a BIG fan of W231 and use it about 99% of the time. It is a very versitale powder and clean.

Have fun
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Old 08-08-2009, 10:15 AM
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I don't know too much about reloading, but I do understand impulse, tinsile strength, and the universal gas law.

I would think that faster burning powder should cause more stress, not necessarily more wear.

1) The pressure curve will be more steep, which means pressure is rising faster, which means the steel has to resist more force per unit time. That could be an issue for an old Triple Lock that didn't benefit from heat treating. As long as that impulse is with in the spec of the steel's tinsile strength it shouldn't be an issue.

2) I would think, but I'm not sure, faster burning powder should create higher pressures around the chamber and throat area at the least. Higher pressures bring higher temperatures.

This is only my guess. I have not gotten into reloading yet, but a Dillon 650 is DEFINATELY in the works.
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Old 08-08-2009, 12:30 PM
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If you shoot 20 or 30 K a year, the gun might wear after a decade or two. If you shoot a lot less than that and feel you have worn the gun out and wish to give the weapon away, please don't hesitate to call me.
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Old 08-08-2009, 06:10 PM
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Recoil itself is what increases the wear on a revolver's mechanism.It is the pounding,jarring effect which loosens tolerances.Top strap errosion is caused by the sandblasting effect of powder and bullet fragments.

Except for extremes,I don't worry about it.If you do a LOT of shooting as I used to (20 K per year),recoil can be a very real issue.I've had to have a number of revolver's rebuilt.In the interest of full disclosure,the vast majority of my shooting with handguns has been with the 44 magnum.Full loads done on a steady basis can wear one pretty quick.

The majority of shooters will be shooting something more moderate and in less numbers which will make much of this largely academic.Everything wears with use.Your car tires wear and to avoid it,you will need to stop driving.The same with your gun.The only way to stop wear is to stop shooting.But that would be to treat a gun like an artifact rather than what it was made for.

Some concern themselves with barrel wear.With handguns,don't even think about it.With certain rifle calibers,especially those of what are commonly called "overbore",meaning large case with small bore,which is a relative term,barrel wear can be an issue if the person shoots it a lot but with handguns of most calibers,it would take a lifetime of shooting to matter.
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Old 08-08-2009, 06:19 PM
Steve C Steve C is offline
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Quote:
Assuming bullet weight and velocity are the same, does the powder speed affect gun wear to any degree?
I would think that most of the "wear" a pistol gets is from being hammered around by recoil. What wears out on revolvers is the small parts, the moving parts and with enough recoil from velocity you get end shake or the frame spung. Semi auto's get the frame cracked, the slide stop bent, the moving parts worn none of which can be related strictly to pressure but are related directly to velocity and battering.


if the velocity is equal the recoil should be close to equal except the additional recoil added by more powder being expelled thus increasing the mass being ejected. Thus slower powder should increase wear. See recoil calculations that include powder weight at Recoil Calculator

Regarding heat of the powder. Slow powder generate more volume of hot gasses. It would be interesting to see some imperical data on the heat of combustion of different powder. However, slow powder in magnums can cause flame cutting and if one considers flame cutting wear then again the slower powder produces more wear.

Regarding pressure. Fast powder may generate more pressure for the same velocity however I've never seen a gun worn out by pressure, a few KB'd by over pressure but not worn out.

With all that, as others have said, IMO there isn't a significant difference in wear between the slow vrs the fast powder as long as the loads remain within safe pressure levels.
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Old 08-08-2009, 07:17 PM
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There are so many variables it's hard to tell from your post. But another thing to consider is what a high volume competition shooter told me recently. He uses a couple of different VitaVhouri powders solely because of the heat factor. When your gun heats up it will shoot loose much faster. They use the VV powders in their K frames because when shooting 200 to 300 rounds per practice session their guns don't require near as much cooling off time.

A lot of it depends on the gun your shooting AND how your shooting it.
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Old 08-08-2009, 10:07 PM
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Splittin hairs IMO

But if using one vs the other makes you feel better.........go for it.

Last edited by Emerson; 08-08-2009 at 10:21 PM.
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Old 08-09-2009, 05:03 PM
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True, recoil beats a gun up, but higher pressures & heat are not good for a barrel &/or it's forcing cone.In you example, the recoil would be vurtually identical but the W231 load will be doing so w/ much higher pressures. To extend your guns life, shoot loads w/ lower pressures & lighter bullets for less recoil.
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Old 08-09-2009, 05:19 PM
Skip Sackett Skip Sackett is offline
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Exclamation Less pressure for me!

If I do shoot a firearm loose, I would think that is a good thing! I should be real good with it then!

There is a local constable that has carried his M629 with handloads as a duty weapon for as long as anyone can remember. Massad Ayoob is a friend of his and could verify what I am saying.

He qualifies with it and has to shoot a bunch of rounds through it when he does. Remember, I've already told you he has done this for a long time. His load is a 180gr jacketed bullet with a healthy charge of 2400 behind it. Needless to say, it gets hot when he shoots a bunch of rounds through it. Do you know how he told me he cools it off between rounds?

He sticks it in a bucket of ice! I'm being serious! He said he has done this for years, many years. When he gets home he tears the gun completely down and cleans it. Every part that can come off of it does, under the side plate included.

I have to say this as a qualifier too, I've never seen this done, the qualifying that is, but I have been to his place to see the firearm completely torn down getting the once over.

Many years, slow powder, bunch of rounds, seems like he has found the answer!

FWIW

Here he is in action!


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Old 08-10-2009, 09:35 AM
TiroFijo TiroFijo is offline
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In this particular case, 357 mag 158 gr bullet at a very modest 1000 fps, I would choose the 231 load hands down... less recoil and blast, less hot gas volume (erosion), at a slightly higher pressure, but well below max.

I would guess that the 231 load has a bit less wear than the 2400 one, but the other reasons are more valid for me.
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